Garage Chimney Repairs & Planning Ahead

[blades]

running any type of open to room fireplace/stove will suck a ton of heat out of the home. Even current Inserts or stoves will pull internal air for combustion, which has to be made up somehow, generally through any chink in the home envelope. 2 stories are worse because you get a draft of cold air coming down the stairs ( in past times second floor stair cases had doors on them for just this reason.) Frankly spending all kinds of funds on stoves and flues without addressing the homes insulation and air leaks first is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[mnowaczyk]

running any type of open to room fireplace/stove will suck a ton of heat out of the home. Even current Inserts or stoves will pull internal air for combustion, which has to be made up somehow, generally through any chink in the home envelope. 2 stories are worse because you get a draft of cold air coming down the stairs ( in past times second floor stair cases had doors on them for just this reason.) Frankly spending all kinds of funds on stoves and flues without addressing the homes insulation and air leaks first is putting the cart before the horse.

I completely agree and didn’t run a new liner in my house chimney. This is an unheated garage right now though. The chimney was at risk of falling down and looked terrible. So I had my mason come out and rebuild it. Now that the scaffolding is up, I think it makes sense to drop a liner down it and help seal it off. I’ve now got a sealable cap and liner that it fits. If I install the liner and then seal the bottom of the liner, then I’ve eliminated a source of draft. That sounds like a win.

It’s good you mentioned an outside air intake. I will see if I can make that happen while the Mason is still working here.

 

[mnowaczyk]

So a chimney sweep offering a 6” liner FS on FB Marketplace informed me that typically the T is installed on a liner before it is sent down the chimney. That’s when I realized that the T’s that come with liners come apart. Oops. Damn. Looks like I botched this and wasted 2+ hours of driving and maybe $200. I don’t even know where to buy an 8” T to get here quickly, but I will search.

The good thing is that my chimney/mason guy doesn’t seem to have other work lined up due to some recent medical issues that had landed him in the hospital for a while. Not that that is good for him, but seems real good for me that he can stick around while I feed him work and we can get this stuff done together. It wasn’t until after he left that I realized the T issue. I’m also waiting on the part for the VC Encore that I hope even fits the back of this stove. As I believe I mentioned above, it looks like this version comes with an 8” oval, not 6” round. I wonder if 8” oval flows about the same as 6” round though. Well, first is to see if it even bolts on.

If I decide VC Encore is a good thing for me, then I am leaning towards putting one in my basement in the end bc I have one that’s already partially taken apart and I can reassemble in the basement. I need to restrain from buying a second until I decide that I definitely want one of these in my garage.

I don’t really need to decide on which stove I was to use as much as I need to decide on the liner right now. As mentioned above, I bought an 8” liner because I thought I was going to need to toss it down the chimney yesterday. Another foot part about making that $200 purchase was obtaining a cap (that is designed for an 8” liner). That will help keep water out of the chimney, even if I don’t install a liner right now. So I got SOMETHING out of that purchase.

But WHY WAS I SO EXCITED ABOUT 8” LINER?

There’s a part of me that wants an open fireplace. If you read any of my threads from over ten years ago, I was very resistant to knocking out the damper and smoke shelf in my last house, and I’m resistant to doing so in my “new” house too. I understand the lack of efficiency and constant air loss via chimneys. I do want to stop that air flow via hood seals in open fireplaces. I was also thinking there are ways to get liners through dampers and smoke shields without destroying them. What I didn’t understand is that good fireplaces seem to all have smoke shelves.

Because of my affinity for an open fireplace, I’ve been looking into the possibility of building an open fireplace in my (unheated and incredibly drafty) garage. I don’t know that the first floor of the garage is something that I will ever be looking to make air-tight. There’s an upstairs to this garage that I could make airtight, and with no insulation between the second floor and ceiling of the garage, I imagine it wouldn’t be hard for heat to rise or to even create an opening to let heat rise if desired.

BACK TO THE OPEN FIREPLACE CONCEPT:
If installing an open fireplace, it would ideally toss as much heat as possible. Reading about RUMFORD fireplaces, I saw that that are shallow (thumbs up for my application, not an insert though), and the NECK TO THE SMOKE SHELF ACTS LIKE A VENTURI OR CARBURETOR sucking smoke out of the room. This “jet” effect is apparently key to the open fireplace design and the reason that all hood fireplaces have a smoke shelf. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but it is the way I understand it right now. So my concept of maybe having an open fireplace with an 8” liner fed to a block off plate might be a terrible design for a fireplace. It’s not as if it will ever be a very easy task to go from wood burning device that needs a direct connection to an open fireplace. I understand that one of the aspects of many of these wood burners is the ability to run them as an open fireplace, but the one aspect they don’t offer is the ability to sweep stuff into the fireplace.

Since this is a garage (currently) and will likely continue to be a workshop where I’m going to have sawdust and perhaps other combustibles that might burn well when mixed with other fuel, an open fireplace ON THE FLOOR would be ideal. Sure, I could use a shovel or dust pan to toss that stuff into a wood burner (insert it stove), but it’s just another step.

Now having a set of doors that are closable and airtight would be awesome.

All this gets me thinking back to my childhood when we lived on a 7.5 acre horse/mushroom farm from when I was 2-7 years old. Being the youngest of 6, I’ve got siblings with absolutely horrible memories of those times just after my parents divorced, eating government cheese and never having anything but the white box “No Frills” foods. Having a 200+ year old uninsulated stone farmhouse with a dirt basement floor and an oil heater that was always broken meant we had one good way to heat the house. Fortunately before the divorce when my parents had just bought the farm (supposedly as a last ditch effort on the marriage), Giorgi (sp?) kitchens built an amazing (for the late 70’s) kitchen and my dad also designed a stone fireplace that had intake and outlet vents in the wall that made it so that fireplace could really heat the house. With older brothers who would literally go out into the woods to chop down a tree to burn the same day, my older siblings had some really hard times trying to keep that house warm. For me though, being so young, I just remember spending all of my winter huddled around that open fireplace. I have fond memories of the farm and my older siblings taking care of me.

Anyway, I think that building an open fireplace, perhaps one like stone fireplace we had on that farm would be crazy-awesome. That farm recently sold, so I am going to see if I can find Zillow pictures that I remember sending to my older siblings in the past year or so. Perhaps it will lend me some inspiration to figure out what I want to do with this corner of this garage.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Ha! Ironically there was an insert installed in that hearth. Needless to say, it didn’t look like this in the 70’s. But I think that was the original stone exterior where I think my dad had the fireplace added to the exterior or the original stone building with kind of a porch addition or something like that. The master bath may have been above it while the kitchen one a one-story addition I believe. These pictures are all from the back of the house where we really lived, but in looking closely I now see the house had two other chimneys at the ridge peak that I guess were not in use besides for the oil heater. I wish I’d gone to see the house while it was for sale. Anyway, I can see some aspects of the design and dimensions required. I will likely never know about smoke shelf aspects.

 

[mnowaczyk]

About an hour delay from dropping my kids at camp was another Facebook marketplace chimney liner. This time it was supposedly new in box 6 inch liner with the TN cap and it was being sold at the sellers loss. When I got there I was very disappointed to see that there was no tea in the box. That pretty much defeated the purpose but also took our agreed price off the table since a critical part was missing. I had only agreed on $300 because I don’t think I really need to spend on this right now. The guy went inside looking for the tea that was missing from the box and found a couple of 6 to 8 inch adapters and a 6 inch 45.We agreed on my offer of $200 for all of this new stuff because I had already come the distance for it. So now as I dictate into my phone on my drive home I am thinking about what in the world I am going to do with this stuff. What I really want to do is drop the 8 inch liner down the chimney while I can. Then I want to drop inside that this 20 foot long 6 inch liner. I think I will use the 6 inch liner to connect to the stove and I think a 45° might possibly work but will at least be a start coming out of my chimney. I wanted to have a 90 degree bend going horizontally to the back of the Vermont casting stove now that I have the adapter piece. However this might not be that simple. I think I am going to see if any local shops have a tea that would work for this.

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[bholler]

About an hour delay from dropping my kids at camp was another Facebook marketplace chimney liner. This time it was supposedly new in box 6 inch liner with the TN cap and it was being sold at the sellers loss. When I got there I was very disappointed to see that there was no tea in the box. That pretty much defeated the purpose but also took our agreed price off the table since a critical part was missing. I had only agreed on $300 because I don’t think I really need to spend on this right now. The guy went inside looking for the tea that was missing from the box and found a couple of 6 to 8 inch adapters and a 6 inch 45.We agreed on my offer of $200 for all of this new stuff because I had already come the distance for it. So now as I dictate into my phone on my drive home I am thinking about what in the world I am going to do with this stuff. What I really want to do is drop the 8 inch liner down the chimney while I can. Then I want to drop inside that this 20 foot long 6 inch liner. I think I will use the 6 inch liner to connect to the stove and I think a 45° might possibly work but will at least be a start coming out of my chimney. I wanted to have a 90 degree bend going horizontally to the back of the Vermont casting stove now that I have the adapter piece. However this might not be that simple. I think I am going to see if any local shops have a tea that would work for this.

View attachment 328346

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I seriously have no idea what you are thinking here. Why are you dropping the 8" liner. I still don't see any insulation for any of these liners.

 

[mnowaczyk]

I seriously have no idea what you are thinking here. Why are you dropping the 8" liner. I still don't see any insulation for any of these liners.

Well, as I said, this may never get used at all. Maybe it’s a total waste of time and money. That’s true. There’s no insulation,

I like the idea that if I want to run an open fireplace, and if I’ve got 6” inside 8”, maybe I can rip the 6” out and run an open fireplace with the 8” somehow. It’s going to be about 100 F this week and this project will probably come to a halt as soon as the scaffolding comes down. More junk in the driveway until then.

An issue i believe I put in a video above with single wall liner is the possibility for expansion to cause it to run up against the brick and rip a hole in it. If I put the 6” inside the 8”, I should avoid that. If it’s sealed or at least insulated at both ends, that probably creates a lot of air gap between the two liners to help keep the inside 6” warmer. Hopefully with a 20 foot straight shot it will draft well no matter what.

As you can see from my garage, it’s nowhere near ready to burn anything in there. Maybe in a year or two I will be there.

My big Hangul right now is still not having the liner T. Maybe I can get one locally tomorrow.

Maybe I should also get some insulation for the part that SHOULD be easy to insulate, the area between the 6” and 8”. With smooth wall 8”, I’d think as long as the insulation is t too thick, this should slide pretty easily.

We will see how this goes. Hot and humid here this week.

 

[bholler]

Well, as I said, this may never get used at all. Maybe it’s a total waste of time and money. That’s true. There’s no insulation,

I like the idea that if I want to run an open fireplace, and if I’ve got 6” inside 8”, maybe I can rip the 6” out and run an open fireplace with the 8” somehow. It’s going to be about 100 F this week and this project will probably come to a halt as soon as the scaffolding comes down. More junk in the driveway until then.

An issue i believe I put in a video above with single wall liner is the possibility for expansion to cause it to run up against the brick and rip a hole in it. If I put the 6” inside the 8”, I should avoid that. If it’s sealed or at least insulated at both ends, that probably creates a lot of air gap between the two liners to help keep the inside 6” warmer. Hopefully with a 20 foot straight shot it will draft well no matter what.

As you can see from my garage, it’s nowhere near ready to burn anything in there. Maybe in a year or two I will be there.

My big Hangul right now is still not having the liner T. Maybe I can get one locally tomorrow.

Maybe I should also get some insulation for the part that SHOULD be easy to insulate, the area between the 6” and 8”. With smooth wall 8”, I’d think as long as the insulation is t too thick, this should slide pretty easily.

We will see how this goes. Hot and humid here this week.

View attachment 328356

8" is not big enough for an open fireplace and you really can't just add an open fireplace to an existing chimney anyway

 

[mnowaczyk]

8" is not big enough for an open fireplace and you really can't just add an open fireplace to an existing chimney anyway

That’s good to know. What size is required for an open fireplace? I’ve currently got 12x12 (11x11” interior I believe) in my house that is 3 stories, so maybe about 30 feet. This garage is only 2 stories, so maybe about 20 feet. I figure the width of the fireplace is the issue with the liner being too small. So maybe a borrower fireplace, maybe even just narrower at the neck. Right?

 

[bholler]

That’s good to know. What size is required for an open fireplace? I’ve currently got 12x12 (11x11” interior I believe) in my house that is 3 stories, so maybe about 30 feet. This garage is only 2 stories, so maybe about 20 feet. I figure the width of the fireplace is the issue with the liner being too small. So maybe a borrower fireplace, maybe even just narrower at the neck. Right?

You need to maintain a ratio of 10 to one between the opening of the fireplace to the size of the flue. With a rumford you can bump that down a little bit. But the construction of an open fireplace into an existing chimney will be very difficult

 

[mnowaczyk]

You need to maintain a ratio of 10 to one between the opening of the fireplace to the size of the flue. With a rumford you can bump that down a little bit. But the construction of an open fireplace into an existing chimney will be very difficult

Thank you. I am finally closing out the project for now with the 8” dropped to about 5 feet and the 6” now coming out the wall horizontally centered at 53.5” high. If I want to some day open up the chimney and try to make an open fireplace, I MIGHT have that option or to run an older less efficient insert like the ones I own could be possible with a “fireplace” built into the brick.

In any case, I am probably about $1100 in the hole beyond the thousands it took to fix the failing masonry chimney that was filling with water for an unknown number of years (certainly more than 3.

The best part (besides thinking I can do whatever I want in the future) is that this is “resolved” / DONE.

Thanks to everyone who helped with my stupid crazy ideas and “planning ahead.”

 

[bholler]

Thank you. I am finally closing out the project for now with the 8” dropped to about 5 feet and the 6” now coming out the wall horizontally centered at 53.5” high. If I want to some day open up the chimney and try to make an open fireplace, I MIGHT have that option or to run an older less efficient insert like the ones I own could be possible with a “fireplace” built into the brick.

In any case, I am probably about $1100 in the hole beyond the thousands it took to fix the failing masonry chimney that was filling with water for an unknown number of years (certainly more than 3.

The best part (besides thinking I can do whatever I want in the future) is that this is “resolved” / DONE.

Thanks to everyone who helped with my stupid crazy ideas and “planning ahead.”

Did you get a tee? Did you get insulation?

 

[mnowaczyk]

Did you get a tee? Did you get insulation?

No. The Mason was able to bend the 6” liner. I didn’t suggest he do that, but that’s what he did. I kept a saying I thought we needed a T. It was a very tight squeeze for them to get the 8” liner in, but they got it in. The 6” might be constricted where it turns and negatively affect the draft and maybe even collect creosote and debris. I suggested he come out of the wall with the 45 that I had which I thought would have generally been better all around because there’d be no horizontal needed at all and the 45 would probably flow a heck of a lot better than the 90 he bent in the 6” liner.

What I can do later (not on scaffolding) is to bust open the mortar and concrete he put around the 6” liner and install a T or a 45 later, when I’m actually using the stove. Right now it’s certainly not on my mind to make things hotter. Also, having the wood stove connected could potentially be an issue with my insurance. So I’m not going to burn it until I can make sure everything is done right.

The power company should get the opportunity to look at the install to and decide whether they want to straighten up their power line more so it doesn’t sit directly above my stainless chimney cap.

 

[kborndale]

Wait, your saying your installer bent a 90 degrees turn into your liner???

 

[begreen]

Hold my beer

 

[bholler]

Wait, your saying your installer bent a 90 degrees turn into your liner???

I have seen it many times and they always fail within a few years.if it's not kinked and separated already.

 

[begreen]

Methinks this is a case of excessive frugality. This is an expensive home, why scrimp on infrastructure? It will be less costly and safer in the long run to do it right in the first place.

 

[bholler]

No. The Mason was able to bend the 6” liner. I didn’t suggest he do that, but that’s what he did. I kept a saying I thought we needed a T. It was a very tight squeeze for them to get the 8” liner in, but they got it in. The 6” might be constricted where it turns and negatively affect the draft and maybe even collect creosote and debris. I suggested he come out of the wall with the 45 that I had which I thought would have generally been better all around because there’d be no horizontal needed at all and the 45 would probably flow a heck of a lot better than the 90 he bent in the 6” liner.

What I can do later (not on scaffolding) is to bust open the mortar and concrete he put around the 6” liner and install a T or a 45 later, when I’m actually using the stove. Right now it’s certainly not on my mind to make things hotter. Also, having the wood stove connected could potentially be an issue with my insurance. So I’m not going to burn it until I can make sure everything is done right.

The power company should get the opportunity to look at the install to and decide whether they want to straighten up their power line more so it doesn’t sit directly above my stainless chimney cap.

Does your chimney have the required 1" of clearance from the outside of the chimney to any combustible material? If not you need insulation

 

[mnowaczyk]

I have seen it many times and they always fail within a few years.if it's not kinked and separated already.

Yeah. Honestly, and I get to this point with most contractors I hire, I can’t wait for him to get his scaffolding out of here and give me a break from him. I can bash out the bricks on my own and put a T on myself if it is needed. The liner doesn’t look separated to me, but I think there’s too much going on in there where the liner crosses the bricks and think that the metal will expand at different rates than the brick and cause problems. I don’t like it. I will be expecting to have to change it after only 2-3 fires probably.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Does your chimney have the required 1" of clearance from the outside of the chimney to any combustible material? If not you need insulation

It’s a brick chimney in a masonry block building, so the first place that the brick makes contact with any wood is the ceiling of the first floor and floor of the second floor. It then goes through the roof which has wood decking. This chimney appears to have been run in the past with no liner at all, but I don’t know what was being burnt.

Outside my 6” liner, I have an air gap and then a smooth-wall / double layer stainless steel 8” liner outside that. I can’t imagine that any insulation would have made it down the brick chimney without tearing in places that most likely would never be seen. I may need to educate myself on chimney liner insulation but find it hard to believe any insulation would hold up to rubbing up against mortar and bricks and chopped terracotta blocks the way the 8” stainless liner had to.

I understand that I didn’t do it the way normal people do it, but if it’s not clear from this thread, I’m not normal.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Methinks this is a case of excessive frugality. This is an expensive home, why scrimp on infrastructure? It will be less costly and safer in the long run to do it right in the first place.

Chimney has to get fixed to prevent it from falling.

Some neighbors have run airBNB out of slightly larger garages, and some neighborhood trustees are trying to crack down on this … to the point where when I asked if I could swap stucco for clapboard siding, the head of the architectural committee asked me why I don’t just remove the chimney (probably hoping to make my garage less inhabitable).

Not counting the costs of the liner itself or the wood stove I bought, I’ve spent nearly $5000 on a chimney and associated stucco work that will most likely NEVER get used. My garage is so full of crap right now from all the other projects I have going on, that the dream of having a garage cleared out to the point where I might be able to enjoy a fire is honestly delusional. I’ve got rotting wood windows in so many places on this garage and original 100-year old windows in the house that are warping and having gaps nearly 1/2” thick letting in freezing cold air in the winter. My quote to replace windows is $120,000, and that doesn’t even include the garage. We have spent over $100,000 on fixes and repairs to this house in the last three years since we bought it. And there’s a LONG way to go. We’ve got arched wood windows that need to be pulled out and restored and flattedend by rejuvenating the wood with oils. I’ve got a Den addition in the first floor with its own zone heat that I shut off and just close off the room because it’s so drafty. There’s also a crawl space full of uninsulated (heating and plumbing) pipes with outdoor air that blows across them all winter. The heating pipes used to be insulated with friable asbestos I had removed. I’ve considered getting spray insulation out in, but I’ve realized I first need to redo the electric in that crawl space. Oh year, the electric in this house needs a ton of updates. Did I mention the swimming pool that didn’t hold water? And every year I’ve had to repair new leaks in the pool. I’m 3 for 3 in 3 years. Speaking of the back yard, every time we have a big rain storm, the back yard gets a pond in it up to 16” of water that floods onto my neighbors yard too. I’ve been told I need to install a sump pump in my back yard to pump water up and out. And the boiler isn’t piped correctly with no primary loop so the boiler will keep firing when there’s no water circulation causing the water in the boiler to boil and pop and bang unless I turn the target boiler temp down so low that it runs as a condensing boiler which is going to fail in short order because it’s a cast iron boiler, not stainless. It’s not designed to run at those temps. So also on my list is redoing the boiler heating system, not to mention the fact that there’s no drain on that side of the house making it so the boiler (and water heater) room really needs to be relocated to the other side of the house. And then there’s the other reasons the basement floods. Edit: and there’s a huge Ginko tree on foot from the den addition that was built right up to the tree that is lifting the whole addition breaking the cinder block addition. That is one more of so many cans of worms here.

It’s a big old house. I think a lot of people look at a big house that someone owns and just assume they’ve got endless supplies of money because they will some day be able to sell that big house for a fortune. Our goal is to be able to stay here for the duration. So there’s no payback here.

Excessive frugality (and ingenuity) is exactly what’s needed here in my opinion.

I’m not worried about the possibility of needing to fix the bottom of the chimney. I’m not even afraid of having to drop a whole new 6” liner into the 8” if needed. Getting that 8” liner into that chimney is what I think makes it far more valuable and potentially useful.

I think now that all that is said, you guys will probably suggest that I should have just capped the chimney or even just have taken the chimney down. Right? Well, how much would it have cost to have the chimney removed?

I’m glad I don’t have to look at a crumbling chimney every day from here on out.

I’m glad that it appears that I’m not all that far away from having a wood burning stove in the garage, and that seems like a possibility for me. None of that was possible just a few weeks ago.

My mason has given me some great prices, but every time it seems he gives me a number it needs to go up. I don’t have an open checkbook with unlimited funds,

 

[stoveliker]

Indeed we said to just cap the chimney (after any masonry work needed to stabilize and preseve it) - it solves leakage problems and preserves it for any further investment if and once that is needed.
(Noting the "likely NEVER get used" meaning all the liner buying will likely be a waste of time and money - contrasting with the goal of frugality.)

I am sorry the home needs as much work as it does.

 

[bholler]

It’s a brick chimney in a masonry block building, so the first place that the brick makes contact with any wood is the ceiling of the first floor and floor of the second floor. It then goes through the roof which has wood decking. This chimney appears to have been run in the past with no liner at all, but I don’t know what was being burnt.

Outside my 6” liner, I have an air gap and then a smooth-wall / double layer stainless steel 8” liner outside that. I can’t imagine that any insulation would have made it down the brick chimney without tearing in places that most likely would never be seen. I may need to educate myself on chimney liner insulation but find it hard to believe any insulation would hold up to rubbing up against mortar and bricks and chopped terracotta blocks the way the 8” stainless liner had to.

I understand that I didn’t do it the way normal people do it, but if it’s not clear from this thread, I’m not normal.

Ok well your roof framing and decking contacts the chimney right? That means insulation is required by code. And no the insulation wouldn't get torn up if installed properly. Yes frugality and ingenuity is required with big old houses. But putting 2 liners in a chimney for no reason that aren't installed correctly and don't meet code isn't frugal. It's a waste of money

 

[mnowaczyk]

Indeed we said to just cap the chimney (after any masonry work needed to stabilize and preseve it) - it solves leakage problems and preserves it for any further investment if and once that is needed.
(Noting the "likely NEVER get used" meaning all the liner buying will likely be a waste of time and money - contrasting with the goal of frugality.)

I am sorry the home needs as much work as it does.

I get that aspect, as if the ~$1200 I spent for everything might be a waste. ($200 for 8” and cap, $20-25 in fuel and tolls for that trip, $200 for the second liner and extra parts that I may be able to sell off, $10 in fuel for that pickup, $500 for liner install, $120 for stove and $10 in fuel for that pickup, and $65 for the eBay collar for that stove).

On the other hand, had I not spent any of that, I would have still spent $5050 on other work done by the Mason and had zero ability to burn anything. I don’t know that I would have been able to find anyone willing to risk their lives installing a liner on a ladder, and I doubt trying to do that on my own with this chimney would have been wise. I think scaffolding rental alone would cost $500, not to mention the time to setup the scaffolding in any safe manner and the additional potential damage to the roof and garden when doing that.

Also, the cost of capping the chimney might have been negligible, but it still would have had cost and time associated with it. Furthermore, not having the cap that I want to use long term on the chimney means more time until the power company can get a look at how close their power lines come to my chimney cap, being literally directly above it.

That reminds me that it might be worth investigating whether this cap should be grounded with a ground rod and whether or not it should be bonded to the ground and neutral in the main in the house.

So, in the end, I could have saved nearly $1200 by just leaving it as a useless but solid chimney, spending $5050 for my mason’s work that was done while he was out here (including a crack he repaired for $300 in the main house, a “while you are here” deal). OR, I could spend the total of ~$6300, and be where I am right now, also knowing the Mason was able to make a relatively quick $500 (when he feels he undercharged for everything else).

I am confident at the point in spending the money I spent to have these additional items:

A) 8” flue installed in case I ever want to run a large stove or fireplace. I can bash out the bottom of the chimney, remove the 6” liner, and do what I want. Maybe I decide to try my hand at building my own fireplace with a smoke shelf, etc. That could be a lot of fun IMO.

B) I have a 6” liner installed that might work fine with the 90 bend. It also might not meaning I need to bash open the bottom of the chimney and add a T or a 45 or something better. All of that sounds a lot easier to me than running a new liner. Also, there’s nothing saying this same 6” liner coursing be pulled out, add the T, and then drop it back in (inside my smooth wall 8” that is far less likely to damage the liner or insulation on the liner should we decide that’s needed).

C) Perhaps the biggest waste was the $120-185 on the VC Encore stuff. Not only do I own a stove some say they wouldn’t take for free, but it is also in my way, more junk in the garage. Maybe I should post parts up for sale and start my adventure in scrapping it. That’s not me though. I see some people rebuild and love their stoves. Maybe I won’t need to rebuild mine every couple years because I will be able to clean the chimney from the top without moving the stove. Maybe it will also last a long time because it will never get used. Maybe it won’t matter at all and never get rebuilt at all because a short burn and inefficient fire won’t matter all that much in a garage that only gets a few hours of use every once in a while. In any case, the spend of $185 seems pretty negligible in the $6300 overall spend and certainly seems required for any wood burning. So I don’t regret it (yet).

No regrets. … but I didn’t plan on spending this much on the garage this month.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Ok well your roof framing and decking contacts the chimney right? That means insulation is required by code. And no the insulation wouldn't get torn up if installed properly. Yes frugality and ingenuity is required with big old houses. But putting 2 liners in a chimney for no reason that aren't installed correctly and don't meet code isn't frugal. It's a waste of money

“It’s a waste of money” says you.

How much does the average person spend on installing a chimney liner?

“Doesn’t meet code”
This whole install will not meet code because it’s a garage. The garage is too close to the property line to make it official living space. The only thing I can do to make this possibly meet code would likely involve removing the garage door, finishing all the walls so it looks like interior space, removing any chemicals and gasoline cans, making it so a vehicle could never be parked in there, and then hoping that someone would provide me with some government-approved (I.e. “nanny state”) stamp that tells me that my installation that has two stainless steel liners is less safe than one (potentially torn insulation) insulated liner install would be safer than what I’ve done.

Do you REALLY think that hiring some big company chimney company with some low level installer would really report back that he thinks he may have ripped the insulation where the liner enters the smaller neck of the chimney where it crosses the floor where the wood comes closest to the hottest elements? I highly doubt it. I would expect that the insulation would tear, and either nobody would know or they’d hide it from me to get paid and get out. I also expect I would likely pay something closer to $5000 for that type of job. I also wouldn’t be able to justify it, meaning, it wouldn’t happen.

Yeah, if I hired a company that was large enough to do the work, I’d always have the recourse of suing them if there was ever a fire. That’s not what I’m after though.

And if I need to make sure my “chimney” is at least 1” from any combustibles, my “chimney” is now effectively a double-wall 8” stainless liner that is surrounded in ~3” of brick. If I need to add 1/4-3/4” of insulation around the 6” liner, because I have the 8” smooth-wall liner, it won’t be too hard to make that happen now.

I will be sure to read this now before I report back here. https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2018/chapter-10-chimneys-and-fireplaces