Furnace Recommendation

[brenndatomu]

I must’ve missed the first 6 feet part. That’s no problem. Fire risk you say? I don’t want any of that!

I just looked the T2 manual up...it doesn't actually say the 6' part...it shows it in the diagram, but then gives no spec for it. See how they show the plenum and first part of the duct being lower, then it goes up? That's your 6" (actually they say 5", spec C) 6" for 6' is a solid fuel furnace standard though...so even though they don't spell it out, I'd do their listed 5" for 6'.
I see what you mean about the duct length stuff...it gets complicated...I'd make sure your dad (or whoever does your duct runs) reads through this part of the manual real well.

 

[Highbeam]

There is always a risk of fire with a solid fuel appliance. You mitigate the risk by following the manual’s requirements. Some people never trust their installs and some are so brazen that they violate the requirements and sleep well. Some others just trust the professional (sometimes smart sometimes dumb).

 

[brenndatomu]

I also noticed they were back on the website and thats when i went into the store to try and order one. I went to 3 different stores... in every store, theres a booklet near the wood stoves/furnaces. The booklet has pages for the Tundra II, Heatpro, Heatmax II, Heatpack, etc, but where the price tag belongs, they all have a red tag inserted saying, "Sorry this item in no longer available." I went to the department desk and they tried to order it on the menards website and said they always order them online and since theres no "add to cart" button online, they cant order it. I also went to customer service and they were no help. If anything, youll have to call menards corporate or something.

I was at Menerds tonite...the T2 is available to be ordered now, and the Heatpro is listed on their website too, but they say they can't actually order it yet...they said since its seasonal, it should available in the next few weeks, also said sometimes the seasonal stuff just kinda trickles in here n there at first.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

So what is the burn time of the Tundra II? Still have the HYC in the basement and nothing was done to correct any issues.

Also if you don’t mind me asking, how much did the stove set you back?

 

[brenndatomu]

So what is the burn time of the Tundra II? Still have the HYC in the basement and nothing was done to correct any issues.

Also if you don’t mind me asking, how much did the stove set you back?

Should be the same as a T1...6 hours run hard, 8 normally, 10-12 in mild weather...but it all depends on the heat load of your house.
Price...https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/furnace-recommendation.168131/page-2#post-2275866

 

[Boilers]

Well my first fire went okay tonight. 6’ flue and 85 degree temps didn’t help my draft much. Had to keep the damper open just to keep the fire going. The blower kicked on probably 25 times in about a 2 hour span and it also stayed on for 3-5 minutes at a time. Seemed encouraging. Unfortunately every time I got a good secondary burn going and I closed the damper, I would have a full on smolder within 5 minutes or less. ( has to be due to low draft) Amazing watching the smoke go completely clear once I opened the damper and the secondaries got going again. I also heard one rather loud metal pop that has me a little concerned. Is this normal? Like it was loud enough to interrupt a conversation. There were lots of little pops and creaks.

 

[brenndatomu]

Well my first fire went okay tonight. 6’ flue and 85 degree temps didn’t help my draft much. Had to keep the damper open just to keep the fire going. The blower kicked on probably 25 times in about a 2 hour span and it also stayed on for 3-5 minutes at a time. Seemed encouraging. Unfortunately every time I got a good secondary burn going and I closed the damper, I would have a full on smolder within 5 minutes or less. ( has to be due to low draft) Amazing watching the smoke go completely clear once I opened the damper and the secondaries got going again. I also heard one rather loud metal pop that has me a little concerned. Is this normal? Like it was loud enough to interrupt a conversation. There were lots of little pops and creaks.

Blower on n off is due to low static pressure, (at least partially) and low draft...pretty normal in these temps.
The loud pop...not "normal", but not uncommon either...have had it happen myself, on more than one model stove...look it over good, but its more than likely fine.

 

[Boilers]

Flue pipe self inspection tonight was a bit interesting. I’ve only lived here a few months, but quickly learned there was no cap on the flue (rainwater and washed out creosote on the basement floor) Thankfully there’s a floor drain within 2 feet. Previous owner left the trim ring portion of the cap on, but not the rain cover for the main tube. Trim ring did cover the air gap between 2nd and 3rd pipe layer. I took this ring off and found some corrosion but everything seems sound. Thoughts?

See picture.

I put another 9” section of pipe on to get closer to the 3’ clearance over the peak (probably still only 2.5’) and then a new rain cap. See picture.

 

[ratsrepus]

I heard the Kuma is good, I would look at the the energy King through Empire distributing, they had the first EPA forced air furnace, called the 385. My first go around with wood furnaces was a Fire Chief, big red mother, I sold that and went to a Charmaster. wasn't impressed with that either. I did make alot of creosote.

 

[woodey]

I heard the is kumma is good

You heard right. I have had the Kuuma VF100 for the past 2 winters and have been more than satisfied. Great furnace.

 

[Boilers]

I am working to get the duct installed in parallel with my LP furnace . See attached diagram. Any thoughts? Do I really need the dampers on the cold air side? It seems that the hot air dampers would minimized backdraft, but I am concerned that the LP furnace could suck hot air off the wood furnace through the cold air.

Dad did help me size the duct. I am planning to run a single 14" round duct from wood furnace plenum into the plenum above the LP furnace A-Coil. At 1400 CFM, this should give me close to .2 static pressure. If I need to run at a lower speed, I may put a damper in. I cant remember what size duct we decided on for the cold air, but I have it at home. We sized it larger than the hot air duct though.

 

[Spanky]

I also have the Kuuma VF100 and am very happy.

 

[brenndatomu]

I am working to get the duct installed in parallel with my LP furnace . See attached diagram. Any thoughts? Do I really need the dampers on the cold air side? It seems that the hot air dampers would minimized backdraft, but I am concerned that the LP furnace could suck hot air off the wood furnace through the cold air.

Dad did help me size the duct. I am planning to run a single 14" round duct from wood furnace plenum into the plenum above the LP furnace A-Coil. At 1400 CFM, this should give me close to .2 static pressure. If I need to run at a lower speed, I may put a damper in. I cant remember what size duct we decided on for the cold air, but I have it at home. We sized it larger than the hot air duct though.

I don't think you need dampers on both sides of both furnaces...1 on each should do it. What I would do is put one on the LP furnace supply like you have it in the drawing...then one on the return air duct of the Tundra. Reason being, for gravity flow on the Tundra if the power goes out...you'll notice the air filter/blower box is not 100% sealed up on those...they do that (leak) on purpose to make so it can easily get some airflow to cool itself on power failure. My Yukon furnace actually has a 1" gap on one side of the air filter for this same reason.
And don't worry too much about hitting .2 SP when you start it up...if you do, it will do nothing but cycle on/off all the time (unless they changed more on the T2 than I think they did) Setting up a wood furnace is a lot different than a fossil fuel furnace...on those you just set the SP and/or temp rise, good to go.
On the T1 you set the blower speed so it could cool itself with a ripping fire, but then not cycle too bad at the end of the burn. For most people that was speed 2...I had mine set on speed 1 until I put the speed control on it.

 

[Boilers]

I don't think you need dampers on both sides of both furnaces...1 on each should do it. What I would do is put one on the LP furnace supply like you have it in the drawing...then one on the return air duct of the Tundra. Reason being, for gravity flow on the Tundra if the power goes out...you'll notice the air filter/blower box is not 100% sealed up on those...they do that (leak) on purpose to make so it can easily get some airflow to cool itself on power failure. My Yukon furnace actually has a 1" gap on one side of the air filter for this same reason.
And don't worry too much about hitting .2 SP when you start it up...if you do, it will do nothing but cycle on/off all the time (unless they changed more on the T2 than I think they did) Setting up a wood furnace is a lot different than a fossil fuel furnace...on those you just set the SP and/or temp rise, good to go.
On the T1 you set the blower speed so it could cool itself with a ripping fire, but then not cycle too bad at the end of the burn. For most people that was speed 2...I had mine set on speed 1 until I put the speed control on it.

Great suggestion! Thank you! I have revised my diagram.

I may just use a manual "slidegates" as backdraft dampers for now (with gas furnace switched off). We will see how well this thing heats the house. If it cant keep up, I dont want to be pulling out the "slidegates" every time the gas furnace needs to run. In that case, I will spend a few extra bucks and buy or make something with louvers that will open and close on their own based on which appliance is running. Then Id also have to interlock the gas and wood furnace so they cant run at the same time, but also prevent the wood furnace from overheating.... we will cross that bridge later!

 

[brenndatomu]

Yeah I think that should work...maybe another "air scorcher" here can look this over to make sure I didn't miss something though...and if you are going to do the manual gate thing, a piece of cardboard or tin slid behind the air filter works...just don't forget to pull it out when the furnace is started back up!

 

[Boilers]

Yeah I think that should work...maybe another "air scorcher" here can look this over to make sure I didn't miss something though...and if you are going to do the manual gate thing, a piece of cardboard or tin slid behind the air filter works...just don't forget to pull it out when the furnace is started back up!

I’m about ready to fire it up! Everything is plumbed except the cold air return. I will have to set the barometric damper and monitor temps pretty closely on the first burn. Also still need to notify insurance company.

Excuse the filthy basement....

 

[brenndatomu]

I’m about ready to fire it up!

Weeeell?

 

[Mrpelletburner]

How is the stove working out for you?

 

[Boilers]

Weeeell?

How is the stove working out for you?

Thanks for asking!

I cant say I am super happy with the purchase at this point. (some of it is probably my fault). Im not really unhappy either. I have been heating with the wood furnace 100% for 3 weeks now. The first 2 weeks, I'd fire it up for the overnight only and let it die out during the day. This past week, its been running nonstop, as the daily high temps have been 45 and lower. Theres been a few days the temp hasnt broke 35.

My problems...

1. Getting secondaries to stay lit when closing the damper. I get the fire roaring with the damper open (flue temp 350-400 ish via IR gun), then close it and the fire looks awesome for 30 seconds, then it just slowly dies out. I have my manometer and draft is not the issue. Im thinking wet wood is the issue. Small-medium size loads are specifically very hard to get consistent secondary burn. I end up spending an hour opening and closing the damper to get the stupid thing to stay lit.

2. Burn time. again, this may be due to wet wood, but i spend so much time fiddling with the damper and ramping the stove up and down, that by the time the secondaries stay going, the wood is glowing orange all the way around.

3. Cycling blower. I used one 14" tube which ties directly into the main trunk for my existing HVAC system. What bothers me is, the blower can run 4 different speeds, and i dont have any control over what speed it runs. I sized my duct for max speed, but I guess I should have sized it for speed 1 or 2? I have closed down all of my floor registers, and with a big fire, the blower doesnt cycle much for the first few hours of the burn cycle.

4. Barometric damper. I installed the $30 Vogelzang from Menards and this thing is junk. Like absolute garbage. With wind gusts, Ive seen my draft at 0.2 before, and steadily at 0.12. I installed it exactly to the supplied instructions, and I have adjusted it as much as possible. The thing will barely move. It swings freely when I move it, but does not react to changes in draft. At one point I adjusted it such that it was very sensitive. It still would not react to small changes in draft, then i'd get a wind gust and the damper would go to fully open and stay there! Ive inspected it closely, and it seems that the hinge pins are not aligned, which creates resistance. They both point slightly upwards, toward the top center of the round opening. Their misalignment is such that the damper will stay wide open once a wind gust causes it to get that far. If I adjust the weight so that this cant happen, then the damper just wont ever do anything.

All that said, if someone can recommend a good damper, I'd love to get something that works.

I am still learning, and I realize most of this will get sorted out with some tuning. In the end... Ive heated my house with this furnace for 3 weeks, and I havent used a single drop of propane. Granted the house did get down to 61 degrees at one point, but that was my fault. I havent really packed the furnace full yet. Ive probably done a handful of 3/4 full loads. Those loads definitely required the least amount of attention.

 

[brenndatomu]

Barometric damper. I installed the $30 Vogelzang from Menards and this thing is junk.

Yes!
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-6-RC-6-Draft-Regulator-for-Wood-Oil-or-Coal
As for everything else...sounds like you need to visit the big Tundra thread...it is specifically on the T1, but all the issues you are dealing with are in there. Link to the threads "glossary" in my sig line below

 

[Boilers]

Yes!
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Field-Controls-6-RC-6-Draft-Regulator-for-Wood-Oil-or-Coal
As for everything else...sounds like you need to visit the big Tundra thread...it is specifically on the T1, but all the issues you are dealing with are in there. Link to the threads "glossary" in my sig line below

Thanks! I have read a lot of the Tundra 1 thread. Its been helpful for sure.

All of the wood I am burning was cut and split late summer of this year. It was all dead, so its somewhat dry, but I highly doubt its under 20%. Since each log i cut has been dead for varying lengths of time and some of it was standing, while some was on the ground, Im sure I have wood with varying moisture content. This complicates things, as one load may light up quickly, but the next will barely burn when I close down the damper. I have noticed some sizzling noise here and there with certain pieces of wood. So MC is definitely part of my struggle.

I really wish the damper were adjustable. I could easily cut a bigger hole in the damper and fabricate a slide gate with a knurled set screw, but I dont necessarily want to go chopping on my brand new furnace and void the warranty. I have experimented with propping the damper open a bit with 16D nail wedged in there, but it doesnt seem to help a whole lot.

Another issue I had was the spring part of the door handle kept coming off. Finally i squashed it down with some pliers last night and used a propane torch to heat it up and slip in on. It seems very tight now and I don't think it'll fall off anymore. Also the propane torch works nicely to jump start a new load. I definitely make sure to store the torch/propane WELL away from the furnace. In fact I usually disconnect the propane and take it to another room.

I am not real sure my return air is setup how I'd like. I ran the furnace a few times with the furnace just drawing from the rooms its in, and it seemed to heat up the house fast. Like 5 or 6 degrees in a couple hours. Now that its plumbed into the house return air duct, I get 1 or 1.5 degrees of change per hour. It seems that if I let the return air suck from the ceiling of the furnace room, while leaving the house return air duct open, I could draw in warmer air, while still having a place for the room to draw air from, thereby not holding back the blower any.....

Ive attached a few pictures of my setup...

 

[brenndatomu]

Yep, sounds like its mostly a wet wood problem...you can supplement with used pallets...get a pallet buster and get to gettin.
A circular saw will make quick work of them too. Cut the slats off the stringers, then cut the stringers in two, bam, firewood (with nails...dispose of ashes where the nails don't matter!) Also, a couple of those ECO bricks thrown in with a load can help a lot...just need something dry in there that will maintain the secondary burn so the rest of it can dry out and burn too...not the most efficient, and you'll need to clean your HE and chimney a lot, but it'll make heat until you can find or build up your dry wood supply.

 

[laynes69]

If the damper opens and remains open, you may have the weight upside down? The furnaces need good dry wood, but try a paperclip on the damper to keep it open a hair. I really believe for the damper to close a completely you need popcorn cart dry pine or mini splits. No matter how seasoned the wood, good seasoned splits need a little extra air. If your wood isn't seasoned, you'll get a fraction of the heat it can produce. Your house also may not be as tight and insulated as you think. We have a caddy but it's the same firebox. We can bring up the house in 30 degree weather 2 degrees in less than 20 minutes with a good hot fire. If we had wet wood, there's no way!

 

[brenndatomu]

We can bring up the house in 30 degree weather 2 degrees in less than 20 minutes with a good hot fire

Wow, the only furnace that I've had that could do that (besides fossil fuel) was the Yukon...this place seems to take forever to heat up, but takes awhile to cool off too...

 

[laynes69]

Wow, the only furnace that I've had that could do that (besides fossil fuel) was the Yukon...this place seems to take forever to heat up, but takes awhile to cool off too...

The old furnace, I could have a 10 degree increase within a half hour or so if I fed it too much. In the 30's I have to be careful how much I feed cause its not uncommon to wake up in the middle of the night to 78-80! It's 29 here now and it's 74 and climbing and I've done my partial load for bed.