Full Chisel Chain: WOW!

[Kong]

Pyro,

That is how I've always cut wood. Typically after the tree comes down and the limbs have been cut down to firewood size and removed I'll try to drag the trunk to where ever it is I'll be splitting the rounds that are about to be cut from it. Then I'll cut through the tree at intervals as deep as I can make the cut without the kerf closing and trapping the saw. They get stuck sometimes. That's why I carry a spare bar and several sharp chains with me. If one gets stuck you just unbolt the guide bar, take it off the saw, put the spare bar and new chain on the saw and then move on. If I find a place where a natural crook allows me to cut the trunk all the way through all the better. I like to get it to lengths that I can roll over without killing myself. Anyway 2/3 on one side and 1/3 on the back side is about how it works out. I will use any surface on the guide bar I can get into wood - top, bottom, tip, it doesn't matter to me. As I said, we take spare chains into the wood with us. I resharpen all the chains at the end of each day.

As for your chain sharpening policy I simply can not support it. It is not beyond any man to learn how to hold a file in his hand and make straight and consistant strokes in one direction. There are aids to hold the right angle and depth. The only trick to it is buying a vice to hold the saw and then be willing to practice for about one good afternoon. Baring that locally they get $7 to do a chain off the saw and $13 on it; you can buy Stihl chains all day long on E-Bay for less than $20 so its up to you which way you want to spend your money.

 

[LLigetfa]

Baring that locally they get $7 to do a chain off the saw and $13 on it; you can buy Stihl chains all day long on E-Bay for less than $20 so its up to you which way you want to spend your money.

I'm way to frugal to pay someone to sharpen a saw and too lazy to remove it from the bar to save a few bucks. $13 to sharpen a $20 chain? Really? Give your head a shake. Given how often a chain can probably be machine sharpened, that would become a $200 chain!

As for using the top of the bar, I see no problem except a possible safety hazard for the inexperienced.

 

[Dune]

Having studied the exploded view posted by LLigetfa, I can see that sharpening is simple enough. Guess I'll dig out some files and sharpen up the one I dulled today and go kill an oak tomorow. I don't have a spare bar but I do try to carry spare chain and a spare saw. Thanks for the tips.

How does one know when to grind down or lower the depth gages?

 

[LLigetfa]

Check out "How A Cutter Tooth Works" and "Depth Gauge Maintenance" at Madsen's.

(broken link removed to http://www.madsens1.com/MNUbarchain.htm)

 

[Ken45]

I cut about 1/2 a cord of very old oak today. Felled and bark peeled over 5 years ago. No rot, very hard. Started with a real sharp chain, finished with a real dull chain. Noticed my chain has guard links. Also noticed I have a tendency to have head in line with saw, and, with logs on the ground, to cut most way through, then roll over the log and finnish the cut with the top of the bar instead of the bottom.
How bad of a habit is it to use the top of the bar? Should I try to avoid doing that at all costs? To be honest, I am generaly too lazy to sharpen my own chains. I figure for the amount of money I save on oil, I can pay a pro to sharpen a few chains a year for me. I often sharpen other things for other people, so I am sure I could master saw chains. Thanks for the info in this thread, I learned a lot today!

Dry oak is hard and can dull chains. However, if the tree has been laying on the ground and your roll it over, you are probably cutting dirty wood and that will really dull a chain fast!

I find it quicker to sharpen my own than to take them someplace to have it done. Besides, I've seen some chains grinded down quickly by sharpening shops. It's too easy for them to overdo it.

Ken

 

[Gooserider]

My take on the safety vs. non-safety chain debate is simple... Safety chain MAY be lower in kickback odds than non-safety, but if you count on it, and use your safety chain to do stuff that you shouldn't be doing with non-safety chain, you WILL end up in the Emergency Room, and / or find out just how good your PPE REALLY is... In other words safety chain won't make up for unsafe work habits, so if you are going to work safely, why not use the best cutting chain you can?

As to using the top of the bar, no problem to speak of, except that if the chain pinches, it can cause the saw to push straight back at you, which is upsetting, but not the big hazard that bar tip kickback can be...

The real "danger-zone" from a kickback standpoint is the top half of the tip radius... That is the area that will pivot the saw up and back at you, and which causes the big damage. The saw people say don't let anything cut in that area, which isn't totally realistic as it's sometimes the best point to get into the wood with (such as when doing the cut / roll / cut routine) Instead I would say it's far more important to KNOW where that tip quadrant is, and be ready for it to try and kick back if you are using it... Keeping the saw revved up is a big help when using the tip as it cuts rather than catching like it will at low speeds.

Mostly the big thing is to be aware of what the saw is doing, and what it might want to do, and be ready for it.

Gooserider

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I run the files over my teeth between gas and bar oil fill ups. Some feel it's excessive, and it probably is, but I always have a sharp chain. I also found it gives me a rest about every 45 minutes from the vibration and noise of the saw. The rest ensures I don't push myself too far.

Look into a cant hook or peavey for rolling a log over. They are well worth it for your back.

Matt

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I'll use the top or bottom of the bar to cut depending on how the log is stressed. It can save you from having a pinched bar. It won't always save you from a pinched bar though. Always have a way to get it unstuck.

Matt

 

[Dune]

Sorry about the complete and total hijacking, but I learned a bunch from this thread and hopefully someone else did/will also.

 

[Gomez]

I'll use the top or bottom of the bar to cut depending on how the log is stressed. It can save you from having a pinched bar. It won't always save you from a pinched bar though. Always have a way to get it unstuck.

Matt

Why I always carry a second saw. :red:

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Last time I got had a real bad pinch I was on my Grandfather's roof just after the ice storm last December. Of course, power was out and the only other chainsaw around was electric. :lol: I ended up taking the bar off the saw so the power head was not injured and going at it with a bow saw.

Matt

 

[Kong]

Two saws and extra chains is certainly the solution to pinched bars. I often cut with my son and with two saws running at once getting one pinched is not problem at all, you just cut each other out. Then of course there is the magic of plastic wedges. One day you learn about them and then your life changes. Let me back up a bit too - on that extra chains thing. I've got two saws and I don't' know how many chains. When I leave the house to go cut wood in the morning I'll take the saws along with an extra guide bar and usually 4 sharpened chains for each saw. I do not stop to sharpen chains during the day - I change them. My habit is to sharpen all the chains last thing at night as I clean out the guidebars, get the crap out of the saws, blow out the filters, fill them with gas and oil. Its just a routine I've got myself into. Anyway having the extras means you never have to worry about getting pinched or that inevidible tip-dip into the mud.

On that chain price and sharpening thing - that was sort of my point. I can't understand how so many people can simply cut until a chain gets dull then replace it. Even if you're buying them someplace relatively cheap that's got to eat up a lot of money. Professional sharpening is not great deal either. I guess if you walk into the local Stihl Dealer and buy his chains at $45 a crack (typical .325 18") then having a couple of $7 sharpenings at about 1 cord intervals might make some sense. Even if they grind the snot out of it the thing should be good for five or six sharpenings. However my real point was that with a little practice most anyone could take an inexpensive file/guide and do a quite presentable job of sharpening a chain - something that can be repeated 20 or more times - which made it a pretty sound thing to do, economically. However I must confess: I'm in the market for a chain grinder myself, I'm just flat tired of doing it by hand.

 

[Gooserider]

I run the files over my teeth between gas and bar oil fill ups. <snip> Matt

Bet your dentist really loves you... %-P

Seriously, I file after every tank as well - takes less to sharpen the saw, and it's a nice break...

Gooserider

 

[Ken45]

I think it's quicker to touch up the chain with a file than it is to take it off and put on a fresh change. YMMV

Ken

 

[Captain Hornet]

You'r right about how much better the full chisel chains are. Now when using mine, I tell the bystanders to stand back. If they don't, I'll cover them up in saw dust!!