Froling is Believing! (Froling Boiler...Unbelievably Fully Automatic)

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Thanks for the explanations & descriptions, Joe. The Froeling is a nicely put together machine. What are the capabilities that are disabled to "dumb" it down for us American luddites?

I'm not certain. There are a lot of "unused" terminals in the control, and I don't imagine that they are there just because the factory had extra connectors they needed to use up. Some of it may simply be eliminating things that code and UL won't allow here. Or things which might result in excess maintenance like...

One that I'm pretty sure exists (and which I'm pretty sure a tinkerer could rig up with separate components) is self-ignition, which would allow you to load the boiler and walk away, leaving it to light itself when the tanks get low on heat. When I get one for my place, I'm thinking a simple sensor triggering one of those electric charcoal-grill lighters would be more than sufficient. I can imagine that stocking replacement ignitors would be a hassle, as I doubt they have a super-long lifespan.

Joe

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Joe, its mentioned that you torment your supplier, Chris. Bring up my user name to him and mention that I believe I was the one tormented in my case, so he deserves a few good pops. :coolsmile: I'll pay you $5 bucks a pop(in monopoly money )But he did always respond to my concerns, thumbs up! A bunch of Tarm swag might help.

Chris posts on here occasionally, so he'll probably see this post

Does this Froling and other types of gasification boilers use outside air?

The Fröling draws air from the room, under the front door, and back through channels on each side of the boiler (inside the jacket).

Joe

 

[chuck172]

"These boilers require the use of heat storage, so “keeping a bed of coals” isn’t something that you want. They are designed for a solid, hot burn. that, they are



Are these boilers piped to feed the loads only from the storage tank or can the zones be fed directly from the boiler by-passing storage.?

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

Are these boilers piped to feed the loads only from the storage tank or can the zones be fed directly from the boiler by-passing storage.?

In general, the piping should include a diverting valve (thermostatic or electronically-controlled) to allow the zones to "steal" heat during charging. That way, you don't have a 50kW boiler trying to feed a 1kW zone, as might happen if a small zone was able to completely bypass the storage. The diverting valve diverts just the right amount of heat to the zones, and dumps the rest into storage.

Joe

 

[chuck172]

What makes the boilers that require heat storage different? Is it just controls or internal workings?

 

[Jim K in PA]

Thanks for the explanations & descriptions, Joe. The Froeling is a nicely put together machine. What are the capabilities that are disabled to "dumb" it down for us American luddites?

I'm not certain. There are a lot of "unused" terminals in the control, and I don't imagine that they are there just because the factory had extra connectors they needed to use up. Some of it may simply be eliminating things that code and UL won't allow here. Or things which might result in excess maintenance like...

One that I'm pretty sure exists (and which I'm pretty sure a tinkerer could rig up with separate components) is self-ignition, which would allow you to load the boiler and walk away, leaving it to light itself when the tanks get low on heat. When I get one for my place, I'm thinking a simple sensor triggering one of those electric charcoal-grill lighters would be more than sufficient. I can imagine that stocking replacement ignitors would be a hassle, as I doubt they have a super-long lifespan.

Joe

Hmmm - I wonder if the controller will interface with other equipment or inputs.

As for auto ignition, those charcoal grill igniters are a piezo-electic spark generator. Great for lighting up a volatile fuel mixture like propane or NG, but not for getting paper or wood to burn. I think a high current resistance igniter like those used for ovens and broilers in domestic cooking appliances would be more effective, but they would have to be in direct contact with a combustible material. The idea has merit: Low temp sensor to relay (closes on temp fall) kicks on the high voltage circuit, then a temp sensor signal reading combustion temps breaks the HV circuit to the igniter on rise. Not too tough to build, either. But, those resistance igniters are not that cheap, and depending on frequency of use, not that long lived.

 

[BrownianHeatingTech]

What makes the boilers that require heat storage different? Is it just controls or internal workings?

The controls are designed for it, because the stainless-lined firebox will not tolerate prolonged idling. Creosote and acidic compounds can build up between the stainless curtains and the non-stainless pressure vessel and corrode the boiler pressure vessel.

As for auto ignition, those charcoal grill igniters are a piezo-electic spark generator. Great for lighting up a volatile fuel mixture like propane or NG, but not for getting paper or wood to burn. I think a high current resistance igniter like those used for ovens and broilers in domestic cooking appliances would be more effective, but they would have to be in direct contact with a combustible material. The idea has merit: Low temp sensor to relay (closes on temp fall) kicks on the high voltage circuit, then a temp sensor signal reading combustion temps breaks the HV circuit to the igniter on rise. Not too tough to build, either. But, those resistance igniters are not that cheap, and depending on frequency of use, not that long lived.

No, charcoal ignitors, not propane/NG ignitors...

(no endorsement - just the first convenient link with a picture that came up) Like http://www.grillstuff.com/Electric-charcoal-lighter.html?productid=3649]this.

So yes, basically a robust hot-surface ignitor.

Joe

 

[williams]

for those of you that may be interested, we offer financing on all heating systems and are a tarm/froling/innova dealer in central nh. you can reach us at 603-226-7652 for any information on wood boilers/ installation/ operation

 

[heaterman]

What makes the boilers that require heat storage different? Is it just controls or internal workings?

IMHO, all boilers of this type, Tarm, Eko, Econoburn, Froeling and all the rest need to have storage for optimal performance. You can't cycle a solid fuel fire on/off or even High/low without losing efficiency along with eventually creating problems from dirty burning. In the EU it is darn near mandatory for any solid fuel system to be installed with at least minimal storage. They've been at it longer than we have and we should listen to the voice of experience on this.

The classic example is the Garn which brings new meaning to the term "storage". The thing is, when I watch one of those things go through a burn cycle, it becomes very clear that storage is the only way to ensure optimum heat transfer every time. I can't help but think the world would be a happier place if everyone had at least 100 gallons of storage per every 10,000 btu's of burn rate.

 

[Hansson]

The Fröling boiler is really cool! I want one.
But the innova that I run is really good to.

 

[DaveBP]

Good morning, Hansson. Funny, I just mentioned your name in another post a few minutes ago. Everybody is asleep over here right now. I work evenings and just got home.

 

[Hansson]

Good morning, Hansson. Funny, I just mentioned your name in another post a few minutes ago. Everybody is asleep over here right now. I work evenings and just got home.

It`s breakfast at work here.
1hour long jobb in the weldingrobot so i got plenty of time for the hearth.com

 

[Tree farmer]

Damn! Now this appears to be the cats ass, and I just when I thought I already had it. I know one thing I don't have and that's the cash to buy one.

 

[renewablejohn]

With regard to softwood being a "permitted fuel" European boilers are designed to use softwoods as most of the northern forests are various forms of pine.

 

[brad068]

Damn, if I had this boiler it certianly wouldn't be sitting in the basement or a remote shed. I would be eating supper on it every night and might even move my bed out by it. Them "farfrumpoopners" really know how to do nice work! Boy, I hope my immitation garn don't "hear" this!