Free-standing Wood stove vs. Insert

[MichaelAL]

Hi All,

I read this forum often and truly appreciate the collaboration and expertise you all contribute to one another and folks like myself. I'm hoping to get some guidance and thoughts on a decision I have to make within the next week or two.

Heading into the colder months I am about to pull the trigger on a supplemental heating solution in my house (Oil is expensive) My only real option for a place to put a wood burning element is an existing fireplace in the living room. The fireplace measures 30.5 H x 36 W x 21 Depth, though it does taper both width-wise and height-wise towards the back of the fireplace (picture attached). I have narrowed my options down to a flush mounted insert (such as the Hampton H400), or the Hearthstone Homestead free standing wood stove. I am currently leaning towards the Homestead for a number of reasons: No cat converter, no blower, soapstone material (we have young kids), cost (it appears I can pull the Homestead off for almost $2k less) and the wife and I prefer the aesthetics of a classic stove. The last box I would like to check before making a purchase is how these two options will compare in terms of putting actual heat into my house. The area to be heated is roughly 2,000 square feet (half of which is a wide-open first floor, and the other half being three bedrooms and a hallway upstairs). We live in Rhode Island.

One notable challenge, my hearth only extends 19 inches out from the fireplace, so if we go with the Homestead, my intent is to really jam it back into the fireplace as much as possible to (hopefully) keep the glass door 16 inches from the edge of the hearth. This means that a significant portion of the stove will be tucked into the fireplace. I am sure that this will detract from it's heating ability, but how much? Could I install a heat shield or something in the fireplace to get more heat radiating out into the living space perhaps? Either way, I expect I'll save a boatload of money bot buying so much oil, but if the insert is going to be 3 times better at heating than this Homestead option I'd like to consider that in my thought process.

Thanks all!!

-Michael

 

[jetsam]

In general, a freestander will have an easier time putting heat in the house than a comparable insert, just because it has so much more surface area in the room.

On the other hand, the soapstone is a significant handicap to thermal transfer (people like to say that it "releases gentle heat", which is a fancy way to say that it has poor thermal conductivity).

Either way, a 2cf stove is on the small side for a primary heater in a 2000sf house. Will someone be home to load it multiple times per day?

 

[MichaelAL]

In general, a freestander will have an easier time putting heat in the house than a comparable insert, just because it has so much more surface area in the room.

On the other hand, the soapstone is a significant handicap to thermal transfer (people like to say that it "releases gentle heat", which is a fancy way to say that it has poor thermal conductivity).

Either way, a 2cf stove is on the small side for a primary heater in a 2000sf house. Will someone be home to load it multiple times per day?

Hey Jetsam,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, in an ideal world I would do a much bigger free-standing stove, but we don't live in an ideal world so trying to make what I have work! If you have any recommendations of other stoves I might consider I am not married to the Hearthstone Homestead (I could probably sneak an enamel/cast iron unit by the boss). Again, my challenge is finding one that can fit into the existing fireplace and maintain the 16 inch buffer to the front of the Hearth. The Homestead is only 19 inches deep, which is a very unique aspect and why I think it is the best stove for the job.

And yes, my wife and I work from home so we can keep that baby loaded up multiple times a day.

Thanks again,

-Michael

 

[tadmaz]

I'd measure the back to make sure you can fit anything in there.

 

[Zack R]

Any reason why the hearth can't be extended? It'll take a bit of work but will result in the best end outcome, a lot of heat and good looks at the same time.

 

[bholler]

Sliding a radiant freestanding stove back into a fireplace is not going to give you great results. Much of your heat is going to radiate off the stove and into that masonry structure. In this case you would be much better off with a stove designed to get the heat out of that fireplace. There is no benefit from the soapstone with regards to the kids. Yes the surface is a little cooler but not enough to make much difference especially stuffed back into a fireplace where the glass front will really be the only accessable part.

 

[jetsam]

Sliding a radiant freestanding stove back into a fireplace is not going to give you great results. Much of your heat is going to radiate off the stove and into that masonry structure. In this case you would be much better off with a stove designed to get the heat out of that fireplace. There is no benefit from the soapstone with regards to the kids. Yes the surface is a little cooler but not enough to make much difference especially stuffed back into a fireplace where the glass front will really be the only accessable part.

A 2.5-3cf freestander wouldn't fit into the fireplace in the first place, so he'd be building the hearth out and putting it in front.

Agreed that an insert with a blower will do better than a freestander that is IN the fireplace, especially on an exterior wall

 

[MichaelAL]

I'd measure the back to make sure you can fit anything in there.

Hey Tad,

I had a chimney sweep who deals Hampton measure things thoroughly and he said both the H400 and the Homestead would fit in there. I note that you have the H400 noted in your profile. Do you like it? How noisy is the blower? I still may go that route...

Thanks,

-Michael

 

[MichaelAL]

Any reason why the hearth can't be extended? It'll take a bit of work but will result in the best end outcome, a lot of heat and good looks at the same time.

Hey Zack,

The only reason (and also the only one that matters) is that my wife will only allow so much of the room to be dedicated to burning wood; so I am unfortunately stuck with what I have.

Thanks,

-Michael

 

[Zack R]

Hey Zack,

The only reason (and also the only one that matters) is that my wife will only allow so much of the room to be dedicated to burning wood; so I am unfortunately stuck with what I have.

Thanks,

-Michael

If you can't expand I'd look at what inserts with blowers will fit. Jamming a freestanding stove into a small area isn't a good approach. Good luck!

 

[Highbeam]

2000 SF is a medium sized home. That fireplace looks dinky and all inserts are a compromise in heating abilities. Lots of members on this forum have succesfully installed a freestanding stove right in front of the fireplace on a relatively cheap and easy hearth. There are several very good stoves that vent out the back into the old fireplace hole and then the liner runs right up through the old chimney to the cap. They are often called hearth stoves. Woodstock makes some cool ones and even hearthstone. Yes, this would take up some floor space but you wouldn't be stuck with choosing between just a couple of tiny inserts and you wouldn't have to listen to that stupid fan all the time. Not even the quietest ones are quiet.

 

[tadmaz]

Hey Tad,

I had a chimney sweep who deals Hampton measure things thoroughly and he said both the H400 and the Homestead would fit in there. I note that you have the H400 noted in your profile. Do you like it? How noisy is the blower? I still may go that route...

Thanks,

-Michael

I've a big fan of the HI400, pun intended. The fan on high is somewhat loud, so I mostly run that at night when it's 20F or colder. Low fan speed does an ok job. Without the fan, you would get almost no heat. I did put in a block off plate this January (mid winter!) and it did help performance. My upstairs is 1400SF and I'm able to heat it adequately. Downstairs stays in the 50's all winter and I heat it up via zoned furance system if I want to be down there. I think for a flush insert it does very well.

 

[Woody Stover]

a 2cf stove is on the small side for a primary heater in a 2000sf house. Will someone be home to load it multiple times per day?

Yep, if someone who is mechanically inclined is there all day (maybe not the best term on my part,) a smaller stove can be loaded more often to produce more heat. The Keystone is on a 25" hearth, 8" clearance in front which conforms since the front doesn't have a door. The back is flush with the fireplace opening. You may have heard bad things, but don't be afraid to get a cat stove, especially well-suited if you want to run at low output a good deal of the time.
My little stove wouldn't heat 2000 sq.ft. unless it was well-insulated and tight as far as air leaks. A lot also depends on the layout as far as how the heat will get to the far reaches of the space. Any way you can make a rough sketch of that?

 

[Woody Stover]

Not as many stoves to choose from that will rear-vent into a masonry fireplace, unfortunately.

 

[begreen]

Hey Zack,

The only reason (and also the only one that matters) is that my wife will only allow so much of the room to be dedicated to burning wood; so I am unfortunately stuck with what I have.

Is the hearth raised or flush with the floor. If the hearth is raised, then a simple ember protection only hearth extension may be acceptable for some stoves. This can be 6" strip of metal which could be copper for eye appeal

Also, have you considered a side-loading stove like the Woodstock Progress hybrid? It needs less front hearth.

 

[begreen]

That fireplace looks dinky and all inserts are a compromise in heating abilities.

Looks can be deceiving - The fireplace opening measures 30.5 H x 36 W and has a lot of stonework around it.

 

[Woody Stover]

Looks can be deceiving - The fireplace opening measures 30.5 H x 36 W and has a lot of stonework around it.

Yep, that's decent size.

 

[MichaelAL]

Is the hearth raised or flush with the floor. If the hearth is raised, then a simple ember protection only hearth extension may be acceptable for some stoves. This can be 6" strip of metal which could be copper for eye appeal

Also, have you considered a side-loading stove like the Woodstock Progress hybrid? It needs less front hearth.

Hello,

The Hearth is flush with the wood floor unfortunately. That Woodstock Progress looks like a quality stove but much too big for my site. It is 25 inches deep which means even if I was able to get 6 inches of it into my fireplace the front of the stove would be exactly on the edge of the Hearth. That Hearthstone Homestead's shallow depth of 19 inches really makes it more of an option for me. My current thought is that I Might be able to cheat a bit and have at least a majority of the stove outside the fireplace. If I had the front glass say 8 inches from the edge of the hearth (I know 16 inches is the rule) is it acceptable to just throw down a hearth carpet in front of the hearth and be done with it???

 

[bholler]

Hello,

The Hearth is flush with the wood floor unfortunately. That Woodstock Progress looks like a quality stove but much too big for my site. It is 25 inches deep which means even if I was able to get 6 inches of it into my fireplace the front of the stove would be exactly on the edge of the Hearth. That Hearthstone Homestead's shallow depth of 19 inches really makes it more of an option for me. My current thought is that I Might be able to cheat a bit and have at least a majority of the stove outside the fireplace. If I had the front glass say 8 inches from the edge of the hearth (I know 16 inches is the rule) is it acceptable to just throw down a hearth carpet in front of the hearth and be done with it???

No a hearth rug is not acceptable

 

[begreen]

The Homestead has a particularly high hearth requirement. If it doesn't have the full 16" of hearth in front, it would need a well-insulated hearth extension.

It's looking more like an insert is a better solution. In addition to the Hampton there is the Hearthstone Clydesdale which has an adjustable depth .

 

[Zack R]

Not sure if this is true on all or most freestanding stoves but the one I have puts out a ton of heat on the top back center area where the chimney connects, which means you would want to leave that part uncovered.

Sounds like an insert is going to be your best bet here.

 

[shortys7777]

Rhode Islander here. I just put a insert in last year because of my firebox and the size of my living room. I bought an enviro. I live in a ranch and have the whole thing opened up. house is about 1,400 sq feet. When the stove has been running for a full day my sons room which is the complete opposite end of the house can reach 70. If you can load the stove whenever I bet you'll see good results with an insert. My wood was sub par last year too.

 

[john26]

My parents heat a 2000 sqft ranch ranch with a Buck model 18 insert . Open floor plan with the fireplace located in the middle of the house living room and kitchen is warm but basement and bedrooms are cool but thats how they like it. Occasionally dad will run the blower motor on the central furnace for a while.

 

[MichaelAL]

Thanks for your thoughts everybody, and while logic and reason are clearly pointing towards an insert, I am a stubborn polish man and continue to search for a way to make the Homestead work (the idea of a blower just bothers me to an unreasonable degree for some reason). A local Hearthstone dealer is suggesting that putting the stove in the fireplace to some extent wouldn't be terribly detrimental to the heat transfer (claiming the flue is all sealed etc...). Now he is obviously looking to sell a stove, but that's he said.

I am also considering the idea of a minimal hearth extension. He directed me to this product. I cannot find concrete evidence that if I just put this thing down over my hardwood floor that will adhere to code. Do any of you know if that is the case?

https://emberking.com/product/hearth-extensions/

Thanks as always,

-Michael

 

[begreen]

That salesperson is starting to blow smoke. A convective stove is generally better in a fireplace. It looks like the hearth pad he is recommending is ember protection only. That is a long way from the requirement for the Homestead. It needs a hearth with an R=2.5 rating with the 6" legs and a whopping R=6.6 with the short 4" legs. I think that is the highest in the industry.