Flashing #4 on M55

[jtakeman]

J,
I just timed the auger off time at heat level 3, feed trim 1 and I'm only getting about 3.5sec off time on premium fuel mode. That is quite a bit different that yours. You are getting 8 sec off time...am I reading your chart right? I have not played with the lower fuel modes yet.
Flynfrfun

My stove has a 3 RPM auger. So the timing will be different than yours. Also why I can get 70K BTU trimmed to the max setting. I am sure the auger pitch is different too. My max feed rate is something like 8.6 LBS of fuel per hour. It can kill a bag of pellet in about 5 hours. Big scary fire when you get up that high. I only ran it there to get the times for the chart. I feel much better with the feed at 3. But I got it if I need it.

 

[flynfrfun]

Flynfrfun - I think i'm headed down the same path as you. Heat level #3 seems a bit much, but heat level #2 isn't quite enough. So, now I'm messing with the trim settings as well. My M55 sure does eat pellets at heat setting #3! I haven't even tried #4 or #5.

I've seen you post about the auger noise a few times. I don't have anything to compare against, so I'm not sure what to listen for. I can tell you that I can clearly hear it even with a TV on. Is that normal or too loud?

I'm also trying to evaluate a few pellets that are available in the area. Is temp coming out of the tubes a good method? I had a bag of Potomac pellets in yesterday and a bag of Lignetics in today. Lignetics were about 50 deg hotter. I'm going to do the test a few times, then I'll post the averages. What kind of thermometer is good to use? I yanked one from my grill. It reads 100 - 550. I just stuck the 6" needle down the tubes.

Well, if the auger doesn't bother you, I don't want to bring it to your attention by saying it is too loud ;-) However, this stove shares the same guts as the M55 steel freestanding and on that one you can't hear the auger motor hardly at all. Something has changed sometime between the M55 steel freestanding and the M55 cast freestanding and insert. Don't know if they changed auger motor mfg, or the auger motor mfg changed something in the motor design...I dunno, but SOMETHING is different or we wouldn't be hearing these motors. Either that, or the two M55 steel freestanding stoves I looked at just happened to get lucky and have whisper quiet auger motors. But, I doubt it...these auger motors are pretty standardized across the industry and you don't hear people with Harmans and Quadrafires complaining about how noisy their auger motor is. Here is a video of my auger motor noise...

http://www.vimeo.com/17527157

Flynfrfun

 

[flynfrfun]

J,
I just timed the auger off time at heat level 3, feed trim 1 and I'm only getting about 3.5sec off time on premium fuel mode. That is quite a bit different that yours. You are getting 8 sec off time...am I reading your chart right? I have not played with the lower fuel modes yet.
Flynfrfun

My stove has a 3 RPM auger. So the timing will be different than yours. Also why I can get 70K BTU trimmed to the maxx setting. I am sure the auger pitch is different too. My max feed rate is something like 8.6 LBS of fuel per hour. It can kill a bag of pellet in about 5 hours. Big scary fire when you get up that high. I only ran it there to get the times for the chart. I feel much better with the feed at 3. But I got it if I need it.

J,
Ahh...mine can only do 6.5lbs/hr on high. That makes sense since mine is only a 2 rpm auger...that changes everything & so would the auger pitch. How did you come up with the feed rate on your table for each setting?
Flynfrfun

 

[jtakeman]

J,
I just timed the auger off time at heat level 3, feed trim 1 and I'm only getting about 3.5sec off time on premium fuel mode. That is quite a bit different that yours. You are getting 8 sec off time...am I reading your chart right? I have not played with the lower fuel modes yet.
Flynfrfun

My stove has a 3 RPM auger. So the timing will be different than yours. Also why I can get 70K BTU trimmed to the maxx setting. I am sure the auger pitch is different too. My max feed rate is something like 8.6 LBS of fuel per hour. It can kill a bag of pellet in about 5 hours. Big scary fire when you get up that high. I only ran it there to get the times for the chart. I feel much better with the feed at 3. But I got it if I need it.

J,
Ahh...mine can only do 6.5lbs/hr on high. That makes sense since mine is only a 2 rpm auger...that changes everything & so would the auger pitch. How did you come up with the feed rate on your table for each setting?
Flynfrfun

Enviro had some of the info on this chart(attached). From a tech manual available on line. I started with it and filled in the blanks.

 

[slick]

ARGlock, who should I get ahold of to complain about the blower speed???? In my opinion this is a BIG problem. I haven't been able to install my ceiling fan yet but i'm hoping that it works. The air is not being blown out with enough force.

 

[flynfrfun]

ARGlock, who should I get ahold of to complain about the blower speed???? In my opinion this is a BIG problem. I haven't been able to install my ceiling fan yet but i'm hoping that it works. The air is not being blown out with enough force.

I have been notifying my dealer, regional distributor and also Enviro directly at [email protected] If anyone else has any better contacts let us know. You know the saying...the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Enviro needs to hear from us or they are going to assume things are OK. I know my local dealer has let them know the convection blower needs more output. I'm hoping it can be adjusted with a firmware update or new control board. I guess one way to find out would be to see how much voltage goes to it on high. Unfortunately, I can't do this since mine is an insert and I can't get back there to put a voltmeter on the wires while it's running. If someone with a freestanding steel or cast could do it, that would be great. Maybe J-takeman can chime in, but if it's less than 115-120V (on heat setting 5), I would say it is not at it's full potential? But really even if we could get the amount of air coming out at 5 to come out at 3 or 2 it would really help a lot.
Flynfrfun

 

[slick]

Thank You I just wrote to them.

 

[jtakeman]

I have been notifying my dealer, regional distributor and also Enviro directly at [email protected] If anyone else has any better contacts let us know. You know the saying...the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Enviro needs to hear from us or they are going to assume things are OK. I know my local dealer has let them know the convection blower needs more output. I'm hoping it can be adjusted with a firmware update or new control board. I guess one way to find out would be to see how much voltage goes to it on high. Unfortunately, I can't do this since mine is an insert and I can't get back there to put a voltmeter on the wires while it's running. If someone with a freestanding steel or cast could do it, that would be great. Maybe J-takeman can chime in, but if it's less than 115-120V (on heat setting 5), I would say it is not at it's full potential? But really even if we could get the amount of air coming out at 5 to come out at 3 or 2 it would really help a lot.
Flynfrfun

The blower voltages are also not available yet. At least I haven't seen them. So we would need the cast freestanding version to be checked with a meter. I would be happy to but I don't have access to one of them. If htere not full out when its on setting 5 I would be shocked. One thing to watch for is there going to be a percentage of the house current. Who ever checks the voltages will also need to list the actual house current.

 

[ARGlock]

Thank You I just wrote to them.

Let us know if you get a reply.

Stay Warm Folks,

AR

 

[flynfrfun]

OK GUYS....
It pays to have a great dealer! My dealer suggested to me that we swap out auger motors since we know his is good and quiet. I was contemplating this but didn't want to ask him since he needs a quiet stove to make sales. But since he suggested it, I said...YES! At any rate, got it back home and installed his motor. I LITERALLY CANNOT HEAR THE AUGER AT ALL NO MATTER HOW HARD I LISTEN!! We ran his M55 steel freestanding with my motor and could hear the same gear whine noise. You guys don't know how relieved I am to get this finally resolved. Now we know something is happening with the motor mfg. Both motors are Gleason Avery of the same model (902). The only difference is my noisy one was manufactured July 7, 2010 and his was manufactured Sept 3, 2009. I told him he can have his motor back if he needs it as I don't rely on it for my living the way he does. He has said to keep it for now.

He will be communicating with the regional distributor what we have found. Hopefully this will speed up getting this problem resolved for the rest of you guys with noisy auger motors. I'm still baffled as to what in the motor could be causing this...the noisy one and quiet one look identical...at least on the outside. Ahhh...what a sweet stove...this is how I imagined it to be....quietly cranking out the heat.
Flynfrfun

 

[jumpink]

Well that is great news to hear. Glad to see that it can actually be a quiet stove. I am going to email enviro tech support tomorrow and tell them I want an old motor. The dealer swapped out my auger for a new one and it was the same noise. I am so jealous. Better make sure your doors are locked because your auger may go missing.

 

[jtakeman]

I wonder whats up with the newer gleason auger motors? Something as simple as different grease could muck things up with them. If you guys get info on whats the deal with the auger motors please share. This could effect many a stoves.

 

[ARGlock]

Glad to hear you found a good auger!! Keep the info coming in on the M55 insert folks. If anyone has any experience with the Quad CB1200i and has been around the M55 insert, please give a report as to the comparision of heat output. Sounds like Enviro may need to up the convection air from you alls reports.

AR

 

[jumpink]

I have the cover off and voltage meter in hand but I cannot get the probes into the terminal ends of the convection blower. The wires connect vertically and there is not much room inside. Can I grab the voltage from somewhere else, like the fuse? Or is the any trick to get the probes in? (setup for many a dirty pun)

 

[flynfrfun]

Well that is great news to hear. Glad to see that it can actually be a quiet stove. I am going to email enviro tech support tomorrow and tell them I want an old motor. The dealer swapped out my auger for a new one and it was the same noise. I am so jealous. Better make sure your doors are locked because your auger may go missing.

Kevin,
Doors locked, alarm armed and .38 loaded ;-). I had the same thing as you. The original motor was noisy right out of the gate. The second motor was slightly less noisy, but progressively got worse until it was as noisy if not noisier than the first.

The stove is SO NICE now. You guys don't lose faith. Hopefully Gleason Avery or Enviro can give us some feedback on what is going on and get this fixed. I was getting to the point where I was starting to think I made a BIG mistake buying this thing. Now, I can finally truly enjoy it. It is so quiet, I can watch TV at the same volume whether the stove is on or off. That is at heat level 3. I can't hardly wipe this s##t eating grin off my face :coolsmile: At least you guys can rest a little easier knowing we are not going to have to "live" with that noisy auger.

Just keep in mind, I'm just speculating that the date of manufacture might be the culprit. It might be something else. My dealer sold another M55 cast insert and the guy says it is whisper quiet. So who knows. I'm just putting the dates of the motors out there in case that is the clue to Gleason if they know they changed something in that time frame.
Flynfrfun

 

[flynfrfun]

I wonder whats up with the newer gleason auger motors? Something as simple as different grease could muck things up with them. If you guys get info on whats the deal with the auger motors please share. This could effect many a stoves.

Hopefully we find out soon. The distributor sent my original motor to Enviro as they wanted to troubleshoot it. They said they will get back to me once they take a look.
Flynfrfun

 

[jumpink]

I just sent Gleason Avery an email letting them know about the problem as well. I enclosed a link to the youtube video I took of the noisy auger motor [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52y6S9Rejo&feature=related [/youtube] I will let you guys know if I hear anything.

 

[flynfrfun]

I just sent Gleason Avery an email letting them know about the problem as well. I enclosed a link to the youtube video I took of the noisy auger motor [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52y6S9Rejo&feature=related [/youtube] I will let you guys know if I hear anything.

Kevin...I think you linked the wrong video. I hadn't even thought about contacting Gleason Avery, good idea. I sent my video to my regional distributor who is forwarding it on. I also sent it to Enviro to make sure they get it too. Enviro will have the most leverage to get Gleason Avery's attention.
Flynfrfun

 

[jumpink]

I just sent Gleason Avery an email letting them know about the problem as well. I enclosed a link to the youtube video I took of the noisy auger motor [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52y6S9Rejo&feature=related [/youtube] I will let you guys know if I hear anything.

Kevin...I think you linked the wrong video. I hadn't even thought about contacting Gleason Avery, good idea. I sent my video to my regional distributor who is forwarding it on. I also sent it to Enviro to make sure they get it too. Enviro will have the most leverage to get Gleason Avery's attention.
Flynfrfun

Flybfrfun you are right. Here is the correct one [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR-pnXL9ngY&feature=player_embedded[/youtube] I checked the email and atleast I sent them the right one.

Sent Enviro an email tonight as well. Hopefully they will provide some type of solution.

Played around with the trim setting and combustion air. I dropped the trim to one and the combustion to 5. The flame seems to be smaller, and using less pellets but the heat output is the same. Trial and error until I find what works best.

 

[flynfrfun]

Kevin,
Yeah, playing with the trims is neat. I've been trying to keep the combustion air as low as possible because I figure that is less heated air going out the exhaust. I'm working on heat setting 3, combustion trim 1, feed rate 1. But, I really need to get a magnahelic gauge to know if I'm in the right range or not. I might try a higher combustion trim for the fun of it. You didn't say what heat setting you were at?
Flynfrfun

 

[jumpink]

Not sure if it was the best day to test. It was in the high 40's all day and high 30's overnight. I had it set at 3 most of the time on high/low and 1 overnight.

 

[slick]

I have my combustion air flow on 5 all the time, I find it pushes more air out. Is this the wrong thing to do???? Is it just in my head that its pushing more air out?????

 

[flynfrfun]

I have my combustion air flow on 5 all the time, I find it pushes more air out. Is this the wrong thing to do???? Is it just in my head that its pushing more air out?????

Slick,
Yes, it is pushing more air out...out of house thru the chimney ;-) You might think it is increasing the air output because you probably hear the blower ramp up a little. The problem is you are ramping the "combustion" blower not the "convection" blower. The convection blower is the one that blows the hot air into the house. The combustion blower merely feeds air to the fire. More air, the hotter and faster burning the fire is (like a blowtorch). But, also it means that air is moving in and out of the stove faster which doesn't give it as much time to heat up the heat exchanger before it is blown out the exhaust. I don't have a lot of experience fine tuning my stove, but it makes sense to try to run the combustion trim as low as possible while maximizing the heat output. To do this, would require a thermometer placed in the convection air's exit point of the stove and then adjust the combustion blower up or down to see what gives the hottest temps. So far I'm finding that at heat level 3 and higher I have to run a pretty low feed and combustion trim or it just gives a gigantic fire which is wasting a lot of heat since the convection blower doesn't put a lot of CFM out. On setting 2 or 1, I have to ramp up the feed trim and combustion trim to keep the fire going a little better. My favorite setting so far is heat level 3 with feed and combustion trims at 1. It still puts a lot of heat out, but eats a little less pellets than the factory default settings.
Flynfrfun

 

[flynfrfun]

Slick...you do mean "combustion trim" right? Or did you mean you leave the stove at heat level 5? Of course on heat level 5 it does put out more hot air...I mean REALLY HOT air, but it sure goes thru the pellets!
Flynfrfun

 

[flynfrfun]

Well, after 3 days with the new auger motor, the stove is as quiet as can be. We are really enjoying this stove now! This is what I expected after doing all the research prior to buying. I love the agitator system. While mine is not as quiet as the auger motor, I can live with it since it only comes on once every half hour. You can see the flames get a little low, then the agitator will kick in and next thing the flame is back nice. I have to say, we really like the flame on this stove. None of the other stoves looked this good. Even the Harmans had a blowtorch looking flame.

I have to wonder though...with such a nice flame, is it just burning more pellets than other stoves at a similar heat output to get that big flame?
Flynfrfun