Flashing #4 on M55

[jumpink]

I would be interested to learn more about that plate.
Last night the sensor tripped again. I had a good fire going and started to smell a plastic burning smell, then the sensor tripped.
I called the dealer to have them look at the stove.

Kevin,

Are you letting the stove float its convection blower speed according to the firing rate?

If so put the fan on high and do not fire the stove at its highest setting.

But as I said earlier watch the fan as if it repeatedly locks up it will eventually toast a control board triac.

Are you letting the stove float its convection blower speed according to the firing rate?
Sounds like the "fix" could be better handled by a step up in convection air flow.

For the record my stove will go over temp with very good pellets being burned and the convection fan on auto starting at heat setting 3. That doesn't happen with the fan on high. When I get a bit of tinkering time on a warm day in about February the blower is going to get replaced, the one I plan on installing will require a bit of snorkel building.

I've burned the stove on heat setting #3 for 24 hours or more exactly once.

Smokey not sure what you mean when you say "Are you letting the stove float its convection blower speed according to the firing rate?"and when you say "Sounds like the "fix" could be better handled by a step up in convection air flow." How is the increase in convection air flow achieved?

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I would be interested to learn more about that plate.
Last night the sensor tripped again. I had a good fire going and started to smell a plastic burning smell, then the sensor tripped.
I called the dealer to have them look at the stove.

Kevin,

Are you letting the stove float its convection blower speed according to the firing rate?

If so put the fan on high and do not fire the stove at its highest setting.

But as I said earlier watch the fan as if it repeatedly locks up it will eventually toast a control board triac.

Are you letting the stove float its convection blower speed according to the firing rate?
Sounds like the "fix" could be better handled by a step up in convection air flow.

For the record my stove will go over temp with very good pellets being burned and the convection fan on auto starting at heat setting 3. That doesn't happen with the fan on high. When I get a bit of tinkering time on a warm day in about February the blower is going to get replaced, the one I plan on installing will require a bit of snorkel building.

I've burned the stove on heat setting #3 for 24 hours or more exactly once.

Smokey not sure what you mean when you say "Are you letting the stove float its convection blower speed according to the firing rate?"and when you say "Sounds like the "fix" could be better handled by a step up in convection air flow." How is the increase in convection air flow achieved?

Thanks,
Kevin

From looking around at the quick reference on your stove you can't put it in high fan mode.

In a nutshell the convection blower has to turn fast enough at each heat level setting to move at least enough air through the heat exchanger to keep it below the high limit trip point.

When a stove changes the convection blower in step with the heat range setting it is floating the convection blower speed and thus airflow through the heat exchanger.

A lot of stoves have a convection blower switch that places the blower in high speed, thus uncoupling it from the heat range selection.

 

[flynfrfun]

Not very happy with dealer right now. Just talked to one of the owners who had an attitude. He tells me the plate is for the free standing only, that the insert already has it. Was told different from his wife yesterday. Now he wants me to empty a full hopper of pellets & take the cover off the auger & move the screw down one. He was vague on what this will do. Attitude! Also, have to reset the button but he tells me it's under the hopper lid. I'm at work so I can't go look but I don't remember any silver plug under the the lid. Then he tells me it's best if he comes out & fixes the problem, but he straight out & give me when he can make it out. In the meantime, it was in the low teens last night & I did't have a stove. Sorry I'm venting. Up till now the dealer was pretty good about service, etc.

Here is the "plate" that they "might" be talking about on the M55 cast insert. It is part of the heat exchanger cleaning setup. It is basically a plate that is about 6-8" wide and moves up/down as you pull the cleaning rod. During the stove operation, it stays down against the back wall. I always wondered why they had that on there. Now I know it is to isolate some of the heat from the hopper.

Also, I will attach pics of the auger. I don't think you can move the auger cover down a hole. The screw holes are separated by about 3" and the cover won't move down that much without uncovering the top of the auger. I think your dealer is thinking of another stove...or is just trying to get you off the phone so he can charge you for a service call.
Flynfrfun

 

[Brianm58]

Flynfrfun,
I agree with you on both. By your pics it doesn't look like you can move the auger cover down. Now I don't know what he's talking about & I don't think he does either. Do you know where the plug is that has a red reset button is? If he thinks he's coming out for a service call & get paid, he's got another thing coming. I don't have to use them for service, there's other Enviro dealers close enough by that I can use if he wants to play that game. I know I'll have to pay them but he needs to know it's about customer service & making things right when they're wrong.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

A list of things that are not fuel related that can cause a high limit to trip.

1: Defective high limit switch.
2: Defective or failing convection fan.
3: Plugged or restricted convection air path.
4: Plugged or restricted convection blower fan.
5: Failing controller, this includes screwed up programming.

 

[flynfrfun]

Flynfrfun,
I agree with you on both. By your pics it doesn't look like you can move the auger cover down. Now I don't know what he's talking about & I don't think he does either. Do you know where the plug is that has a red reset button is? If he thinks he's coming out for a service call & get paid, he's got another thing coming. I don't have to use them for service, there's other Enviro dealers close enough by that I can use if he wants to play that game. I know I'll have to pay them but he needs to know it's about customer service & making things right when they're wrong.

Brian,
It is behind the silver "button" cover in your hopper up by the control panel. You have to pop the cover off and the red button is behind it. Enviro now has a Quick Reference Guide on their website which shows how to reset the switch. Find your stove on their website then look for the pdf titled "quick reference guide".

BTW, you have the freestanding right? If so, when you get home see if you have the metal plate on the cleaning rod like mine does. I have the insert. I'm curious.
Flynfrfun

 

[Brianm58]

Flyfrfun,
Thanks.

 

[jumpink]

When the dealer comes out to check the convection blower, which I assume is malfunctioning. Is there a way they can check the control board triac also for damage. I did smell a burned plastic smell.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

When the dealer comes out to check the convection blower, which I assume is malfunctioning. Is there a way they can check the control board triac also for damage. I did smell a burned plastic smell.

No real easy way to check for certain except to run the stove through all heat settings and measure what gets sent to the convection blower and compare that to the tech manual.

Dealers don't repair the boards, if they look at the board and the triac is fried usually it will looked fried. They'll know it when they see one.

May I ask how many bags of pellets have you run through the stove?

 

[jtakeman]

Enviro hasn't released the info on the newer boards for the M55, M55 cast and M55 cast insert. Otherwise I would say you could check the voltage output on the board. And match it to there specs.

Traics do strange things when going south. But we don't actually know thats the case. I still thinking they didn't fully test these units to get them to market. We saw some stuff with the first run Omega's. Door seal issues and agitator breakage. We also saw some issues with the first run of the newer cast agitators until the revised the material there made from. So this could just be they don't have the blower speed set right or they need to increase the blower CFM.

We call this in market testing and you might be the ginny pigs for a bit. But they will figure it out. Just don't let the dealer slide on it and bring this stuff to there attention. Make sure you voice the concerns to Enviro's reps. As the dealer may not.

What I would like to see is a user friendly control board, That lets us change the blower speeds to our likings. Say a USB interface we can program certain things. I would have my blower maxed out once I got to the medium setting and up! I would also like to play with my fuel settings in the multifuel mode. But these stove manufactures keep there stuff proprietary. Well except Bixby anyway!

 

[jumpink]

I spoke to the dealer and he thinks it is related to the new auger motor. He said it may be feeding more than it should. He wants me to adjust the feed trim. When I think about the flame last night it was a very large flame, maybe there is some validity to what he is saying???

 

[jtakeman]

Kevin,
Just for the heck of it. What pellets you burning?

 

[jumpink]

Smokey,
I am going on 30 bags burned.

Jay,
I am burning Green Teams. I have noticed a good amount clinkers in the burn pot, but again this is my first season burning pellets so I am not sure what is normal.

I reset the switch and am burning the stove at 2. There is a good sized flame and it is putting out some good heat.

 

[flynfrfun]

FYI, I've been running mine on heat setting 3. Then I put the combustion trim to 1 and the feed trim at 1. My reasoning is that I'm getting more convection blower air at heat level 3 and lowering the feed trim to hopefully help save on pellets. With the factory settings at heat level 3, and both combustion and feed trims at 3, I was getting a flame that went all the way up into the heat exchanger. I figure with the little air coming out of the convection blower, I was wasting a lot of heat out the exhaust. But, I haven't done any timing checks to see just how much the feed trim changes the pellet feed rate. It might not change it that much. My goal is to have the pellet feed rate be more like it is at heat setting 2 while the convection blower is putting out more air like it does at heat setting 3. Basically I'm tricking my stove into putting more convection air out since they don't let us change it manually.

Ultimately, I'd like a whole lot more convection blower output.
Flynfrfun

 

[jtakeman]

FYI, I've been running mine on heat setting 3. Then I put the combustion trim to 1 and the feed trim at 1. My reasoning is that I'm getting more convection blower air at heat level 3 and lowering the feed trim to hopefully help save on pellets. With the factory settings at heat level 3, and both combustion and feed trims at 3, I was getting a flame that went all the way up into the heat exchanger. I figure with the little air coming out of the convection blower, I was wasting a lot of heat out the exhaust. But, I haven't done any timing checks to see just how much the feed trim changes the pellet feed rate. It might not change it that much. My goal is to have the pellet feed rate be more like it is at heat setting 2 while the convection blower is putting out more air like it does at heat setting 3. Basically I'm tricking my stove into putting more convection air out since they don't let us change it manually.

Ultimately, I'd like a whole lot more convection blower output.
Flynfrfun

Learning the stove rather nicely there flynforfun! Besides not having the convection blower trim, The rest of this control is rather nice to tinker with. Don't forget you could always add the reastat and relay to give you full control of the blower. If done carefully with similar connectors as Enviro used. You don't need to cut wires or anything. Should be able to with out the warranty voiding anyway.

I'll let you know how mine works once I'm stuffing in the 455 CFM blower from the Maxx/Maxx M into my Omega! Im gonna make a furnace out of this thing since my warranty is now finished.

 

[pelletdude]

FYI, I've been running mine on heat setting 3. Then I put the combustion trim to 1 and the feed trim at 1. My reasoning is that I'm getting more convection blower air at heat level 3 and lowering the feed trim to hopefully help save on pellets. With the factory settings at heat level 3, and both combustion and feed trims at 3, I was getting a flame that went all the way up into the heat exchanger. I figure with the little air coming out of the convection blower, I was wasting a lot of heat out the exhaust. But, I haven't done any timing checks to see just how much the feed trim changes the pellet feed rate. It might not change it that much. My goal is to have the pellet feed rate be more like it is at heat setting 2 while the convection blower is putting out more air like it does at heat setting 3. Basically I'm tricking my stove into putting more convection air out since they don't let us change it manually.

Ultimately, I'd like a whole lot more convection blower output.
Flynfrfun

Hey Guys,

I have the Cast FS burning in the shop. I have had it for 5 weeks- tripped the high limit twice. The first time on Premium setting with Okies. I set it to standard and that solved the problem. Yesterday it tripped, I did not clean the stove for over two weeks and have burned 4 different brands of pellets. The stove was very dirty and the ash pan was full and overflowing. I did a through cleaning and seems to OK. I do agree and have spoken to Enviro tech support, they need a convection blower with more CFM's. I burn the M55 FS at home and the high limit trips when I go more than 3 weeks not cleaning the stove an run it on 3 or 4.

Steve

 

[flynfrfun]

Pelletdude,
Does your cast freestanding have the metal plate towards the back of the heat exchanger like the cast insert? Go up a few posts and you will see a picture of what I'm talking about. Knock on wood my cast insert has not tripped the hopper sensor yet.

I hope Enviro is listening to these few issues. If so, once these are fixed this is a sweet stove! I really like the overall design, they just have to get the bugs out. It really is quiet...minus the auger noise.
Flynfrfun

 

[flynfrfun]

FYI, I've been running mine on heat setting 3. Then I put the combustion trim to 1 and the feed trim at 1. My reasoning is that I'm getting more convection blower air at heat level 3 and lowering the feed trim to hopefully help save on pellets. With the factory settings at heat level 3, and both combustion and feed trims at 3, I was getting a flame that went all the way up into the heat exchanger. I figure with the little air coming out of the convection blower, I was wasting a lot of heat out the exhaust. But, I haven't done any timing checks to see just how much the feed trim changes the pellet feed rate. It might not change it that much. My goal is to have the pellet feed rate be more like it is at heat setting 2 while the convection blower is putting out more air like it does at heat setting 3. Basically I'm tricking my stove into putting more convection air out since they don't let us change it manually.

Ultimately, I'd like a whole lot more convection blower output.
Flynfrfun

Learning the stove rather nicely there flynforfun! Besides not having the convection blower trim, The rest of this control is rather nice to tinker with. Don't forget you could always add the reastat and relay to give you full control of the blower. If done carefully with similar connectors as Enviro used. You don't need to cut wires or anything. Should be able to with out the warranty voiding anyway.

I'll let you know how mine works once I'm stuffing in the 455 CFM blower from the Maxx/Maxx M into my Omega! Im gonna make a furnace out of this thing since my warranty is now finished.

J,
Hmmm...If I could do it without voiding the warranty and it's not too expensive (less than $50) I'd be willing to try. I can solder, but I don't really have an electronic background, so you'd have to pretty much lay out exactly what I'd have to do with the correct parts and etc. I'd want to be able to take it off the stove and have the stove back to factory original in the event it doesn't work or I'm not happy with it. So, that means no soldering on the control panel.

Really, before I do this I want Enviro to figure out and fix my noisy auger. I can live with a noisy blower as they are more of a white noise and you get used to it. The auger cycling on/off just doesn't fade into the background like the blower noise does. I know something is haywire because the M55 steel freestanding at the shop(s) are super quiet. I've even thought about asking my dealer to just trade me out his auger motor for mine :bug:

BTW, does the bigger blower just spin faster, or is the squirrel cage also larger diameter? Looking inside this stove, there doesn't appear to be room for a larger diameter squirrel cage. About the only thing is to spin the existing one faster for more output.
Flynfrfun

 

[jtakeman]

FYI, I've been running mine on heat setting 3. Then I put the combustion trim to 1 and the feed trim at 1. My reasoning is that I'm getting more convection blower air at heat level 3 and lowering the feed trim to hopefully help save on pellets. With the factory settings at heat level 3, and both combustion and feed trims at 3, I was getting a flame that went all the way up into the heat exchanger. I figure with the little air coming out of the convection blower, I was wasting a lot of heat out the exhaust. But, I haven't done any timing checks to see just how much the feed trim changes the pellet feed rate. It might not change it that much. My goal is to have the pellet feed rate be more like it is at heat setting 2 while the convection blower is putting out more air like it does at heat setting 3. Basically I'm tricking my stove into putting more convection air out since they don't let us change it manually.

Ultimately, I'd like a whole lot more convection blower output.
Flynfrfun

Learning the stove rather nicely there flynforfun! Besides not having the convection blower trim, The rest of this control is rather nice to tinker with. Don't forget you could always add the reastat and relay to give you full control of the blower. If done carefully with similar connectors as Enviro used. You don't need to cut wires or anything. Should be able to with out the warranty voiding anyway.

I'll let you know how mine works once I'm stuffing in the 455 CFM blower from the Maxx/Maxx M into my Omega! Im gonna make a furnace out of this thing since my warranty is now finished.

J,
Hmmm...If I could do it without voiding the warranty and it's not too expensive (less than $50) I'd be willing to try. I can solder, but I don't really have an electronic background, so you'd have to pretty much lay out exactly what I'd have to do with the correct parts and etc. I'd want to be able to take it off the stove and have the stove back to factory original in the event it doesn't work or I'm not happy with it. So, that means no soldering on the control panel.

Really, before I do this I want Enviro to figure out and fix my noisy auger. I can live with a noisy blower as they are more of a white noise and you get used to it. The auger cycling on/off just doesn't fade into the background like the blower noise does. I know something is haywire because the M55 steel freestanding at the shop(s) are super quiet. I've even thought about asking my dealer to just trade me out his auger motor for mine :bug:

BTW, does the bigger blower just spin faster, or is the squirrel cage also larger diameter? Looking inside this stove, there doesn't appear to be room for a larger diameter squirrel cage. About the only thing is to spin the existing one faster for more output.
Flynfrfun

The Blower from the Maxx is hugh! I have to mod my stove's tin. The M55 I haven't reseached. It might be just a higher RPM. Hard to find the specs for these as the manufactorure stuff is propriary! Pelletdude helped me out with the Omega. Hopefully his input to Enviro will help things along on an upgrade.

On the blower control circuit, When and if your ready let me know. I will draw you up a print and make a parts list for you. Less than an hours work. Hardest part is mounting the reostat!

Will do it here so maybe others can follow if they want to. But I'll have to write a disclaimer I suppose!

 

[flynfrfun]

Thanks J! I'll let you know when I'm ready. The rheostat could fit in a lot of places with the insert.

FYI, I did some crude timing with my stopwatch. The feed trim appears to increase in 1/4 second increments for every heat level. So, on feed trim 1 the auger motor is on for 2.5 seconds. At feed trim 5 it is on for 3.5 seconds. Seems to be the same for every heat level. They all have the same amount of "on" time. It seems the off time is what is changed from one heat level to another. I hope I'm not giving away any proprietary info for Enviro, but this seems to be pretty simple stuff so far...
Flynfrfun

 

[jtakeman]

Thanks J! I'll let you know when I'm ready. The rheostat could fit in a lot of places with the insert.

FYI, I did some crude timing with my stopwatch. The feed trim appears to increase in 1/4 second increments for every heat level. So, on feed trim 1 the auger motor is on for 2.5 seconds. At feed trim 5 it is on for 3.5 seconds. Seems to be the same for every heat level. They all have the same amount of "on" time. It seems the off time is what is changed from one heat level to another. I hope I'm not giving away any proprietary info for Enviro, but this seems to be pretty simple stuff so far...
Flynfrfun

Seems you like to find the ins of the new toy! I did the same thing with the Omega. I made a chart of them. Its not perfect but close.

If you get some free time. Maybe you could make one and post it?

 

[ARGlock]

I'd agree that the convection blower should put out more air. I think Enviro dropped the voltage to the convection blower to make this stove quiet. They succeeded, but it doesn't push out enough air in my opinion. IMHO the air that comes out on setting 5 should really be how much comes out on setting 3 and 5 should be even more. Yes, it would be noisier, but it is so quiet already, I don't think it would bother anyone, especially since most of us run it on setting 2 or 3. Really, they just need to let us manually adjust the convection blower. Maybe they don't for fear of someone turning it to heat level 5 and then leaving the blower on low which would cause it to overheat. Either way, they need to up the convection blower output.
Flynfrfun

Has anyone contacted Enviro to see if they would increase the convection blower capacity?

Stay Warm!!

AR

 

[flynfrfun]

I just sent them an email today about it. I'm trying to hit them from all sides since you never know how much info the dealer/distributor are passing on. So far I've been chasing them down on the auger motor noise. I can't be the only one contacting them or they are just going to think I'm being picky or the stove is OK and I just got some bad components. I hope every person that has a noisy auger motor contacts them. Otherwise, they are not going to take it seriously. IMHO this and the steel plate over the heat exchange (for the freestanding cast) are the only two REAL problems. The convection blower is not a problem, but should be looked at by Enviro. The other two are problems that need to be addressed SOON or sales are going to take a nose dive.
Flynfrfun

 

[flynfrfun]

J,
I just timed the auger off time at heat level 3, feed trim 1 and I'm only getting about 3.5sec off time on premium fuel mode. That is quite a bit different that yours. You are getting 8 sec off time...am I reading your chart right? I have not played with the lower fuel modes yet.
Flynfrfun

 

[terps02]

FYI, I've been running mine on heat setting 3. Then I put the combustion trim to 1 and the feed trim at 1. My reasoning is that I'm getting more convection blower air at heat level 3 and lowering the feed trim to hopefully help save on pellets. With the factory settings at heat level 3, and both combustion and feed trims at 3, I was getting a flame that went all the way up into the heat exchanger. I figure with the little air coming out of the convection blower, I was wasting a lot of heat out the exhaust. But, I haven't done any timing checks to see just how much the feed trim changes the pellet feed rate. It might not change it that much. My goal is to have the pellet feed rate be more like it is at heat setting 2 while the convection blower is putting out more air like it does at heat setting 3. Basically I'm tricking my stove into putting more convection air out since they don't let us change it manually.

Ultimately, I'd like a whole lot more convection blower output.
Flynfrfun

Flynfrfun - I think i'm headed down the same path as you. Heat level #3 seems a bit much, but heat level #2 isn't quite enough. So, now I'm messing with the trim settings as well. My M55 sure does eat pellets at heat setting #3! I haven't even tried #4 or #5.

I've seen you post about the auger noise a few times. I don't have anything to compare against, so I'm not sure what to listen for. I can tell you that I can clearly hear it even with a TV on. Is that normal or too loud?

I'm also trying to evaluate a few pellets that are available in the area. Is temp coming out of the tubes a good method? I had a bag of Potomac pellets in yesterday and a bag of Lignetics in today. Lignetics were about 50 deg hotter. I'm going to do the test a few times, then I'll post the averages. What kind of thermometer is good to use? I yanked one from my grill. It reads 100 - 550. I just stuck the 6" needle down the tubes.