Fiskars X-series Axes and Striking -- they're X-treme!! (new 36" Splitter too)

[jlove1974]

You want to talk physics, lets talk physics. The longer the moment arm, the faster the linear speed at the end of the arm for the same rotary speed. Period, end of discussion. Everything else is B.S.

You are totally right. Too bad it's not a linear speed we are talking about. It's a swinging motion that has peak speeds. Why don't they use a longer baseball bat in the major leagues than the minor leagues? Because it's a compromise

Hang on just a second... This discussion is intriguing.

IMHO Here is what happened when you switched from the 36" handle 8# maul to the 28" handle 4.5# fiskars:
First you learned the two tools don't swing the same and adapted a new approach to splitting.
You have developed faster swinging speeds that more than make up for the loss of mass in the striker. (Also a more balanced and efficient transfer of striking energy)

Now a new tool comes along - we still DO NOT KNOW (do we?) how much the new fiskars weighs... let's assume it has the same 4.5# head and so the tool weights slightly more. The windup you speak of shouldn't change - how would it? The difference now is the same weight it moving at a higher velocity/speed - dropping from a greater height at greater speed. What's not to like?

sounds spot on. Missouri is the 'show me' state, correct?
But....the one thing you are missing is that my axe is the 2.5lb PRO splitter, so it's even more efficient to do the same work as the old 8#'er.
The shape of the blades are the important thing here. Splitting is not just force down, but out also. I noticed that the Fiskars THROWS the wood to the side more than the 8lb'er

 

[Dune]

Whatever buddy. Come on up north here and we'll kill a tree and see if you can split more wood with your 22" axe than I can with my 36" axe.

No thanks. I enjoy my 8 month growing seasons too much to waste a trip up there when it's actually nice. You can enjoy all the 'alternative lifestyles' out on your islands all by yourself

Nice tater chips tho!

Too bad, you'll never know what chowder tastes like.

 

[jlove1974]

Whatever buddy. Come on up north here and we'll kill a tree and see if you can split more wood with your 22" axe than I can with my 36" axe.

No thanks. I enjoy my 8 month growing seasons too much to waste a trip up there when it's actually nice. You can enjoy all the 'alternative lifestyles' out on your islands all by yourself

Nice tater chips tho!

Too bad, you'll never know what chowder tastes like.

true that. I would wager that she-crab soup from Charleston would be it's equal, but I'm more of an oyster stew fan.
I was born in Baltimore however, so that would make sense......I'm the only redneck I know that likes seafood more than grits!
BUT shrimp and grits is the worlds most perfect food

 

[bboulier]

Whenever I get to Charleston I always have more than one meal of shrimp and grits.

 

[jlove1974]

Whenever I get to Charleston I always have more than one meal of shrimp and grits.

it must be supper-time, because we're all talking about food now on the east coast!

Don't discount the Outer Banks as a seafood destination either! I had the best shrimp-n-grits in Manteo on Roanoke Island....but the fishing was bad (Veteran's Day N'oreaster...)
And that's why I love NC, I have sampled all the weather of the entire US all in one 4-6hr drive either east or west of me (except that crazy U.P. weather. You Michigan folks are just crazy like Ted Nugent)

 

[brages]

longer handles = slow axe head speeds

What are you talking about? Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm talking about a slower wind-up until you hit the wood. It's not a constant speed, it peaks.
A 28" handle is going to have a faster head speed due to faster wind-up (and less work) than a 36"
but you might gain some of that back due to increased leverage ratio. But as noted above, it increases fatigue.

Actually, your wikipedia quote says that longer handles allow the user to maximize head speed...

The physics are not that simple...

but this is true: the maul/axe doesn't create any energy. So if one axe head is hitting the block with more energy than another, the user of the first is doing more work (in the physics sense of the word) per stroke.

 

[jlove1974]

As I have already opined, longer handles allow the user to maximize head speed, but it's at the expense of more initial effort. See: Trebuchet

I find that once I adapted my swing that I put forth a more efficient splitting stroke, period. BUT for the really big stuff I use a hydraulic splitter

 

[Danno77]

your initial effort stuff might make sense if you held an axe with both hands on the opposite end of the tool than the head for the entire swing. BUT, since the initial effort on my swings (no matter what the handle length is) has my right hand very near the head and sliding down the handle towards my other hand for the length of the swing, then the math becomes much more difficult to prove that it's harder to get a longer handled tool going fast.

 

[Flatbedford]

With the longer handle there should be little left to complain about. While the Super Splitter does have a short handle, I think the magic of it is in the head's shape and weight. I adapted just fine to the shorter handle to the point where my Sears 6# maul feels long and ungainly to me. I use my Fiskars with the round on the ground or on another big round. I have excellent results with it either way. I will still be putting the 36" handle one on my wish list. Can a man ever have too many tools?

 

[Danno77]

You are totally right. Too bad it's not a linear speed we are talking about. It's a swinging motion that has peak speeds. Because it's a compromise.

it IS linear speed we are talking about. The term is used appropriately in this case, because we don't want to confuse the speed along the x-axis or y-axis, but the speed of the head at a tangent to the circular motion.

 

[jlove1974]

With the longer handle there should be little left to complain about. While the Super Splitter does have a short handle, I think the magic of it is in the head's shape and weight. I adapted just fine to the shorter handle to the point where my Sears 6# maul feels long and ungainly to me. I use my Fiskars with the round on the ground or on another big round. I have excellent results with it either way. I will still be putting the 36" handle one on my wish list. Can a man ever have too many tools?

Not sure I want to revisit what I consider a great tool at any rate, just because they added a handle extension.
I am interested in the Helko Vario 1500G Tomahawk
http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/14666

it's a slight bump in head size and weight, and a 31.5 inch composite polyamide handle.

basically, I don't want to lose my swing it's like golf, when you get it down, and it works for you, don't change
(unless it's something that will majorly change the way you do something, like the Fiskars did for my splitting)

 

[golfandwoodnut]

This has been quite a science class, I guess that only time will tell which one everyone likes best. The longer handle will cetainly take the "I will not use a Fiskars because of the short handle" out of the equation. Just don't forget which one you are using, you might take a swing with the short one and end up missing by 8 inches.

 

[bboulier]

I've had my eye on the Helko Vario 2300 gram heavy splitting axe: http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/12265. I almost got one for Christmas, but they are out of stock. Now that the new Fiskars is out, I may rethink my options.

 

[southbound]

I will have to get one and give it a try but replacing the 2300 I just don't see it......

 

[bigtall]

I have a super splitter too and absolutely love it. However, the two changes that I would make are a larger cutting edge and a longer handle. My problem with the short handle is not an issue of head speed, but a safety issue. I am 6'5" and the short handle has made me adjust my swing. As I start into my downswing I bend my knees as I go down so that after it travels through the split it strikes my splitting block. If I dont do this, or if there is a miss hit, the momentum of the head traveling in a radial pattern brings the blade directly towards my shins. I have had to dance around a couple of these. If I was not such an incredible athletic specimen, I would have done some serious damage to my leg. I want a longer handle.

 

[Dune]

I'm more of an oyster stew fan.

Now you are making sense again. Oyster Stew! Oyster Stew at the Black Dog on Marthas Vinyard, possibly the best meal I ever had, other than the rib eye from Bobby Van's.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I know a few all ready Fiskars users that will be pleased with new longer handled version.

The only people that gripe about the short handle are the people who haven't actually used one.

Yup. Probably the same ppl who gripe about their EPA stoves not burning green firewood lol.
Personal, the amount of 'extra work' lifting a log onto a splitting platform/stump is negated by the fact that
you have a hard surface to split on, which increases the force of each swing from the tool.
Also, I use a tire to hold rounds so I can cut a round into many splits and not picking them off the ground to stack em

I am calling B.S. on this. I bought the 22, splits wood great, but real sucky hard to use with the short handle. Bought the 28, much better, still too short. Waiting for the 36. Have no doubt I will be happy with it.

if you are calling BS on the fact that splitting on a hard surface vs the moist or even frozen winter ground transmits more force to the wood being split, you need to go back to HS physics class.

22" handle = long hatchet
28" is a scandinavian standard handle length for axes less than 2.2Kgs for about 1000 years (broken link removed to http://www.gransfors.us/AncientAxeBook.pdf)
I guess they aren't tall, those crazy Swedes nor do they know anything about chopping wood

Also the axe everyone wants has been made by Helko for a while now. 1500G Tomahawk http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/14666
longer handles = slow axe head speeds

Your facts and reason have no place here.

 

[jlove1974]

I'm more of an oyster stew fan.

Now you are making sense again. Oyster Stew! Oyster Stew at the Black Dog on Marthas Vinyard, possibly the best meal I ever had, other than the rib eye from Bobby Van's.

LOL my wife learned how to cook from her Navy dad, and this was one of his specialties. Nothing better on a sub-25 degree winter day. Of course we go through
saltine crackers like candy on those days. I like mine more like a mushy oatmeal consistancy, with lots of ground pepper

BUT back to the OP. I am 5'11" so maybe that is why the 28"er doesn't bother me so much. Now someone who is 6'5" definitely needs a longer handle or a taller
splitting platform. I am glad Fiskars has offered up the longer handle for you folks.

I am gonna try one of those Helko Tomahawks as soon as I can, and I'll do a video comparison on here for you guys. It'll be like a golf instruction video for woodsmen!
This willow oak I have been bouncing the Fiskars off has me frustrated. The stuff is like freaking elm. I have split sweetgum by hand before and not been this upset.
I don't blame the fiskars, because I have always considered it as a 'second-splitting' tool, after the hydraulics have done the big work. Usually I am pressed for time,
and I just split down to about a 8-10" inch x log length wedge just to get wood on the trailer. Then at the house I cut the wedges into smaller pieces to stack by hand.
Some of these rounds I have now are 32" diameter and when I hit them with the pro axe, it's like I am playing the bass drum in a marching band with the bounce!

 

[Allan Lindh]

I use one of the 27" Fiskars splitters and if you're 6' or more, they are too short, IMHO
Great axes, beat the heck out of my old 8# mall, but too short
Looking forward to one of the X27's soon as Amazon gets them.

Those that think that it's better to use a short handle and lift rounds up on block:
1. Must not split many 36" rounds, this ain't Southern Pine we split around here
2. Must never have seen what a mall does when it glances and hits your ankle or foot

The way my Daddy taught me to split wood was to
1. Leave it on the ground,
2. Leave lots of splits on ground to prop against
3. Bend your back just before mall hits wood, so head is traveling straight down
so when it glances and spins out of control, it hits the ground and not your ankle or foot
at least not so often

And Merry Christmas to all, and may we all live to split a few more cords

Jotul Firelight Model 12 (best stove God ever made)
Husky 262 and 3120 (best saws God ever made)
Jeep 1946 CJ-2
4-5 cords a year for 40+ years
(why would I need a hydraulic splitter, I'm only 67)
Swedish by the grace of God

 

[jlove1974]

36" rounds aren't going to be split by hand if I can help it. That is why dinosaurs died and created gasoline
I have friends, who have splitters. Nothing bigger than 18-20" is going to be lifted by me, because I have my Mom's weak back.

put it like this: I can lift the round I am going to split by hitting the axe INTO it and lifting it onto the splitting round. If I can't lift it by this way, it stays on the ground and I move on.

Also, the handle on my Fiskars is 28", and splitting on a round surround by a tire is much safer than swinging at the ground.
It also prolongs the edge of the tool much longer than striking the rocks in my yard.

BTW welcome to the site. You'll fit right in

 

[bboulier]

what part of that tells me that the head travels slower with a longer handle?

They say that the problem with longer handle is control/aim. Well I can hit the same spot over and over, so aim isn't a concern. SO, given that aim is not a factor, then give me a better reason that a longer handle is worse...

You are skilled and swing your axe/splitter accurately, but the principle is still sound. If you swing an axe with a 1 foot handle, you will be very accurate in hitting the last spot you swung at. If you swing an axe with a 20 foot handle, my guess is that you would be very unlikely to place the axe in the spot your last strike.

 

[Dune]

what part of that tells me that the head travels slower with a longer handle?

They say that the problem with longer handle is control/aim. Well I can hit the same spot over and over, so aim isn't a concern. SO, given that aim is not a factor, then give me a better reason that a longer handle is worse...

You are skilled and swing your axe/splitter accurately, but the principle is still sound. If you swing an axe with a 1 foot handle, you will be very accurate in hitting the last spot you swung at. If you swing an axe with a 20 foot handle, my guess is that you would be very unlikely to place the axe in the spot your last strike.

Yeah but I bet with a 3 foot handle to can plant it wherever he wants. I know I can.

 

[nola mike]

Interesting discussion!
Important stuff first. I've lived in Boston, new Orleans, and now VA.
1. Good chowder's tough to beat.
2. Really, crab meat is best by itself. Anything else and you lose the flavor. Not so with clams. Kinda like a lobster roll, which IMHO should be considered a crime against humanity.
3. Gumbo is the best place for oysters, after you've had your share of raw/grilled ( I make some KILLER grilled oysters).

I was just about to pull the trigger on the 28" SS, but am now going to wait. Enough "I wish I had a longer handle" stuff to take seriously; I can't see a downside to a long handle. The work/physics stuff is a bit silly. Even if there were a work penalty with the long handle (which there isn't), that's negated by not having to lift your rounds. BUT, as someone mentioned, you're lifting the axe by the head, not the end of the handle, so no more work doing that. You will get faster head speed with a longer handle=more force. I'd still like to try them both before I buy, but doesn't seem like that's going to happen...

Just went out and measured the handle on my 8# maul. 30.5" from the bottom of the head. For some reason I didn't measure the total handle length, which is probably 36" or so, which suits me just fine.

 

[Allan Lindh]

Dog gone, who would have ever thought splitter handles could be so interesting.
On the question of velocity, another factor is gravity. Most of us swing or lift them (with top hand) high as we can go. Then the down swing is gravity aided. 8" longer handle is gonna provide a little more gravity aid. Means chopping on the ground is better too, longer stroke length.

A topic I haven't seen mentioned is damage to hands from using heavy mall. I first got a Fiskars because of the nerve damage to my hands from all the pounding. With the Fiskars handle and padded gloves, not a problem. Maybe only be a concern for us old guys.

Although off topic, those who haven't tried em might consider the Huskie Log Tongs. I'm too old to use the 12" ones, logs are too heavy, but a pair of the 8" ones sure are nice for picking up split wood for loading, or branch wood for dragging. Less bending, and with a little practice you can sling em into the truck w/o too much effort.

Happy New Year