Fire Side Designs in West Springfield MA
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very expensive ... lol
i have heard many stories about them
there is someone in monson ma... that people prefer
its Squier lumber (check the spelling)
someone from squier lumber floats around these boards and is very helpful
i bet you won't find the guy from fireside around here... lol
as for your answer : yes i have had terrible customer service with them
the person from the other store helped me via phone when the west springfield guy didn't even want to listen to my problem with the stove he sold me
i drove ALL THE WAY out to monson (from where i live) to buy a ton of pellets because i won't go back to west springfield
i have heard many stories about them
there is someone in monson ma... that people prefer
its Squier lumber (check the spelling)
someone from squier lumber floats around these boards and is very helpful
i bet you won't find the guy from fireside around here... lol
as for your answer : yes i have had terrible customer service with them
the person from the other store helped me via phone when the west springfield guy didn't even want to listen to my problem with the stove he sold me
i drove ALL THE WAY out to monson (from where i live) to buy a ton of pellets because i won't go back to west springfield
Forum member Harryback, who has helped a lot of people here, is one of the owners of Squier - and they obviously have proven time and time again that they have good customer service. Aren't they in the Palmer area?
Harryback is on hiatus, having got a bit upset when folks here started attacking "dealer service". I guess he takes it personally, which is a good thing. Maybe if a couple forum members emailed him (be may not get or read PM's), he'd get back here. Then again, he has more pressing issues (like the fact that season is here) to deal with.
Harryback is on hiatus, having got a bit upset when folks here started attacking "dealer service". I guess he takes it personally, which is a good thing. Maybe if a couple forum members emailed him (be may not get or read PM's), he'd get back here. Then again, he has more pressing issues (like the fact that season is here) to deal with.
We purchased an Harman Exception Insert from them 3 years ago. I wouldn't describe the service as awful but I would have a hard time recommending them to anyone. Once it is installed we were basically on our own. I had a gasket up in the stove coming out, went down to buy a new one and they sold me the wrong size and told me to have fun installing it as it wasn't going to be easy. Mind you I had purchased the stove a year ago. I try to avoid going there at all costs. I had ABE Chimney out of East Longmeadow install a full liner and would consult them in the future for any questions or problems I have.
Harry is a good guy and I really don't blame him for taking hiatus over the dealer service backlash. It seems that alot of prevailing attitude over the past couple months has really leaned towards the fact that dealers are not needed in the equation anylonger. Alot of dealers come here and spend time helping people that live thousands of miles from them, offering service and advice. Then to have to read tons of derogatory posts about your profession gets old. Me I'm a total addict and must read this board. Though I have decreased the amount of time I spend actually helping people for this reason.
I once took some time off as well. I had to get used to the negative vibes toward the retailers and learn to respond without anger. My approach since has been to point out that customers are often just as bad, or worse, than the dealerships. Unfortunately, there will always be this acrimony between buyer and seller.
I have often thought of taking out ads in local papers informing the pubic of the abuse we have received from "Mr. Customer". Maybe I could ask the same question about "Mr. Customer" as has been asked here about Fire Side Designs. But then I realize that most of my customers are fine. Many are pleasant to work with with. I must be careful that I do not allow myself to brand all customers with a stereotypical label. It's not fair.
I suppose it could be said that more should be expected of dealers than customers and that the dealers open themselves up to public criticism just by hanging out their shingle. But how many customers allow for the human nature in that dealership? Maybe those folks have been taking an abnormal amount of customer abuse recently and you were treated poorly simply by chance. I don't know. At any rate, I also often take the side of the consumer and am appalled by the lack of professionalism often displayed by some of my fellow dealers. It is my hope that we can all work at getting along and start treating one another better. But I also know that sometimes it's best to part ways.
The dealers are outnumbered here, to be sure. But I would be willing to bet that the dealers who even dare to speak up here are representative of the best dealers in the country. Not all the best dealers are here. Most are not. And there may be a few in the industry who come here and could stand to improve their own professionalism. But I think the customers who come here to complain can learn a lot from those of us who are on the front line of customer service every day. Many consumers are unrealistic about what they expect. Frank conversation from daring retailers can help balance things out.
Sean
I have often thought of taking out ads in local papers informing the pubic of the abuse we have received from "Mr. Customer". Maybe I could ask the same question about "Mr. Customer" as has been asked here about Fire Side Designs. But then I realize that most of my customers are fine. Many are pleasant to work with with. I must be careful that I do not allow myself to brand all customers with a stereotypical label. It's not fair.
I suppose it could be said that more should be expected of dealers than customers and that the dealers open themselves up to public criticism just by hanging out their shingle. But how many customers allow for the human nature in that dealership? Maybe those folks have been taking an abnormal amount of customer abuse recently and you were treated poorly simply by chance. I don't know. At any rate, I also often take the side of the consumer and am appalled by the lack of professionalism often displayed by some of my fellow dealers. It is my hope that we can all work at getting along and start treating one another better. But I also know that sometimes it's best to part ways.
The dealers are outnumbered here, to be sure. But I would be willing to bet that the dealers who even dare to speak up here are representative of the best dealers in the country. Not all the best dealers are here. Most are not. And there may be a few in the industry who come here and could stand to improve their own professionalism. But I think the customers who come here to complain can learn a lot from those of us who are on the front line of customer service every day. Many consumers are unrealistic about what they expect. Frank conversation from daring retailers can help balance things out.
Sean
The funny thing is that my entire idea for Hearth.com revolved around helping customers to "pre-educate" them before they got to the dealer or seller of the product. Consumer education - that is really our mission. I'm going to spell it out (write it down) so it is clear.
comments on the dealer thing:
1. Don't shoot the messenger. If folks are here complaining about their local dealers, there could be a reasons. If you are a dealer and you are here, you are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. That automatically takes you out of the group which is being critiqued. If this bugs you, maybe you should get involved at the HPBA level (or local affiliate) and push dealer education, customer service, etc. - then again, this is a great competitive ADVANTAGE for you so some would say you are better off ($$ wise) not telling your competitors to hang here, etc.
2. There has always been a vast "underground" of folks who bought stoves from VC (direct), Dutchwest (direct), hardware stores, home centers and MANY other outlets. This has been compounded now that places like Copperfield will sell to anyone with who asks to be a "dealer". My store went through 25+ years of all this stuff, and I would say it was meant nothing...as long as we did our job right, we had all the biz we could handle (at least in season).
3. Both #1 (dealers who don't care) and #2 (customer who buy from places with little or no knowledge) NEED HELP with safety and operation. While it may seem to be contrary to a dealers business to help those who didn't buy from him or her, I don't think that it is. When a house burns down or a customer is unsatisfied with their unit(s), that affects the industry as a whole. 75% plus of all wood and pellet stoves (my guess) are sold through specialty dealers - so when the industry gets a bad rep, it affects that dealer much more than the home center (who can just sell something else).
Bottom line, you have to look at the big picture. I know it's tough not to take things personally (example: mike dissing harryback), but in the end I think everyone who participates here in a positive way is helping the industry as a whole - and, of course, their fellow human beings.
Now, will you elect me for Congress?
PS. Another example - myself and a bunch of other folks are often angry with our Trade org for stuff like pushing vent-free, or giving in on the Outdoor Wood Boiler thing. But does that mean we should not support the trade org? Some people feel this way and pull out or don't put any energy into the group. I say that is counter-productive. It is like politics - can't have everything your way.
comments on the dealer thing:
1. Don't shoot the messenger. If folks are here complaining about their local dealers, there could be a reasons. If you are a dealer and you are here, you are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. That automatically takes you out of the group which is being critiqued. If this bugs you, maybe you should get involved at the HPBA level (or local affiliate) and push dealer education, customer service, etc. - then again, this is a great competitive ADVANTAGE for you so some would say you are better off ($$ wise) not telling your competitors to hang here, etc.
2. There has always been a vast "underground" of folks who bought stoves from VC (direct), Dutchwest (direct), hardware stores, home centers and MANY other outlets. This has been compounded now that places like Copperfield will sell to anyone with who asks to be a "dealer". My store went through 25+ years of all this stuff, and I would say it was meant nothing...as long as we did our job right, we had all the biz we could handle (at least in season).
3. Both #1 (dealers who don't care) and #2 (customer who buy from places with little or no knowledge) NEED HELP with safety and operation. While it may seem to be contrary to a dealers business to help those who didn't buy from him or her, I don't think that it is. When a house burns down or a customer is unsatisfied with their unit(s), that affects the industry as a whole. 75% plus of all wood and pellet stoves (my guess) are sold through specialty dealers - so when the industry gets a bad rep, it affects that dealer much more than the home center (who can just sell something else).
Bottom line, you have to look at the big picture. I know it's tough not to take things personally (example: mike dissing harryback), but in the end I think everyone who participates here in a positive way is helping the industry as a whole - and, of course, their fellow human beings.
Now, will you elect me for Congress?
PS. Another example - myself and a bunch of other folks are often angry with our Trade org for stuff like pushing vent-free, or giving in on the Outdoor Wood Boiler thing. But does that mean we should not support the trade org? Some people feel this way and pull out or don't put any energy into the group. I say that is counter-productive. It is like politics - can't have everything your way.
One more little piece of my mind. Obviously, someone who buys the premium brand (Harman) should expect to get premium service. It just makes sense that when you spend double what you could (on a bargain stove), that you should get some extra service for it. The first stove company that puts an 800 number in their stoves and ASKS the dealer to call them will, IMHO, be getting paid (in the end) for the extra couple employees it takes to answer the questions. I know that direct sellers (englander, etc,) are often required by their vendors to do this.
The other end of the same story - when someone spends 5 grand or even 10K for a fancy fireplace setup and calls the manufacturer.....and can get nothing but a referral back to the dealer (who may not have the answer).....it just does not look good. I know economics is at work - it costs a lot to answer the phone, but we are talking about companies that do 30-60 million a year.
A good dealer, of course, usually makes it so very few customer ever need to contact the stove maker. I would be surprised if 1% of our customers ever did so.
The other end of the same story - when someone spends 5 grand or even 10K for a fancy fireplace setup and calls the manufacturer.....and can get nothing but a referral back to the dealer (who may not have the answer).....it just does not look good. I know economics is at work - it costs a lot to answer the phone, but we are talking about companies that do 30-60 million a year.
A good dealer, of course, usually makes it so very few customer ever need to contact the stove maker. I would be surprised if 1% of our customers ever did so.
I share Craig's philosophy and it is one of the reasons I participate here. I believe our industry is poorly respected and we have a lot of work to do to turn that negative reputation around. I also believe that consumers, as a group, are largely unrealistic and are spoiled. I look at our role, as dealers who participate here, as educators in our communities and provokers of thought in the national forum.
I think that sometimes consumers forget that the majority of dealers are hard working middle-class people with human traits. Many problems the consumer has with dealers can be prevented if the consumer will just treat the dealer with the courtesy they are expecting in return. Most of the dealers make far less money than their customers and have far more challenges making ends meet. There is no excuse for a dealer not treating a customer with good customer service. Consumers have reason to complain since it happens all too often. But the consumer should not be too smug. They are often the source of tension.
I think that sometimes consumers forget that the majority of dealers are hard working middle-class people with human traits. Many problems the consumer has with dealers can be prevented if the consumer will just treat the dealer with the courtesy they are expecting in return. Most of the dealers make far less money than their customers and have far more challenges making ends meet. There is no excuse for a dealer not treating a customer with good customer service. Consumers have reason to complain since it happens all too often. But the consumer should not be too smug. They are often the source of tension.
Maybe my comment was a little unprofessional. I don't mean to insinuate that I'm attempting to be counter productive to the goal of the forum. Just can understand frustration of having your profession knocked. And Sean, you are probably right about the industry as a whole needing to step up when it comes to customer service, product knowledge etc. And Craig is also correct in stating that I complain about something I am taking no action to change (through participation in trade org etc).
Shane said:
I'm pretty sure you're not one of the problems in our industry, Shane. I think you have shown yourself to be of professional quality. Just being willing to take some criticism, meant for general consumption and not directed at any particular industry participant, personally is proof enough. Not to mention your often helpful remarks in the general forum. If anything, you're part of the solution. And yes, it is hard to not to react to attacks on our chosen trade. I feel lumped in with those dealers who are hammered here by unsatisfied customers. I know I have angered my share of consumers. I only hope that we all, consumers and dealers, can move past the acrimony and work for solutions. And, the manufacturers are often more to blame for unhappy customers, but the dealers take the heat. So I echo Craig's suggestion that the manufacturers start taking more responsibility with the public.
Sean
Take heart in noting that via this site, you have helped hundreds if not thousands of folks make better decisions. In particular, people are starting to understand the value of burning cleanly and safety. Hopefully, some of them show up at your store better informed and understanding what goes into wood heat installations. I guess there will always be the wise-guy and independents that will not listen even if something is spelled out in black and white. By and large, most folks leave here in a lot better shape than when they came. And this is in no small part due to the sage advice of professional dealers that share their time and knowledge with us all.
There will always be a clown, know-it-all, or outright jerk in the crowd. This is true in any industry, not just here. Lachlan's law #1 is: "Anything's possible if you don't know what you're talking about." applies to cars just as well as to wood stoves. Kudo's to the pros here that keep an even keel and understand that we wouldn't be where we are today without a bit of darwinism. Thanks.
There will always be a clown, know-it-all, or outright jerk in the crowd. This is true in any industry, not just here. Lachlan's law #1 is: "Anything's possible if you don't know what you're talking about." applies to cars just as well as to wood stoves. Kudo's to the pros here that keep an even keel and understand that we wouldn't be where we are today without a bit of darwinism. Thanks.
BeGreen said:
Thanks BeGreen. Well said. You are one of the many educated consumers who participate here with balance and add to our goal of education. And I agree, most who come here for help are better off when they leave. Even better if they stay and contribute. Of course, we've got a few who prefer to stir up trouble with their sly wit. Be that as it may, I think most folks can see through the distractions and end up with a better understanding of their hearth.
BeGreen said:
i agree.. to the rest of you dealers....( not in a bad way)
please keep in mind that (while it may not be the right thing to do) people tend to vent because you are the only people consumers can get in touch with and also like previously mentioned ... with things sooo expensive nowadays people think that you are selling them something that will fix everything.. ... yes many of them think you are the next greatest thing to god... especially when they have it in their head they are buying the "best out there" or you will cut there heating cost by 30% ( not that you are telling them but thats whats somehow makes it to their heads) then when things don't go right or break ... most of the time you get an angry uneducated person ticked off (uneducated about stoves, what they can can't do and why did the pellet stove break)
stoves is not like buying from target where if it doesn't work THE WAY THEY WANT IT TOO they can simply take it back and get a FULL refund
so please understand ... WE DO NEED YOU GUYS AND WE DO APPRECIATE YOU
however, its like sports ... when everyone is winning you are loved the most.. when thiings go bad they want you traded.. and believe me those little things you do for us mean alot
HAARYBACK PLEASE COME BACK
on another note i bought somethingfrom that guy and 28 days after THE ONE YEAR WARRANTY something goes wrong i call him and he says you are out of warranty 110 bucks just for him to come look at it!! and he makes me wait 3 weeks till his service guy is in my area
i would think he would say " if you wait three weeks i'll have a guy swing by because hes already out there.. if its small it'll be --- however if it something you did the service charge will apply"
not 110 bucks to ring my door bell
Unfortunately, often hear here are the problems. Same with many dealers. Try to remember to send a positive note or call to the company or installer that did a good job. You'll make their day!
Oh no! I just bought a stove from them and was getting a bad vibe from the start. Sales person was not knowledgeable about the products and then a over heard a phone conversation with a customer having a problem. Didn't like the attitude they were getting. Then every time i asked a question to the owner he would go on the defensive immediately. I hope i haven't made a mistake. We will see.
James
James
James04 said:
OH NOOOOOO
the owner seems a little arrogant, and stuck up right
kinda like ..well if you don't buy it who cares that person next to you will buy it
i remember when he gave you a free ton of pellets with the purchase of a pellet stove!!
geez that was back in the 90s before he blew up
web wrote:
Bottom line, you have to look at the big picture. I know it’s tough not to take things personally (example: mike dissing harryback), but in the end I think everyone who participates here in a positive way is helping the industry as a whole - and, of course, their fellow human beings
did i?? or was it another mike? if i did , please point it out to me (web not arguing , but i wanna know if and what i might have said, so i can apologise personally.) harry is a class guy , if i offended him im deeply sorry.
Bottom line, you have to look at the big picture. I know it’s tough not to take things personally (example: mike dissing harryback), but in the end I think everyone who participates here in a positive way is helping the industry as a whole - and, of course, their fellow human beings
did i?? or was it another mike? if i did , please point it out to me (web not arguing , but i wanna know if and what i might have said, so i can apologise personally.) harry is a class guy , if i offended him im deeply sorry.
No it wasn't you Mike it was another, I think that thread is long since deleted....stoveguy2esw said:
Any way back on topic...
I went to a dealer a couple of weeks ago (not mine but it was near my work), I wanted to buy a new ignitor, was told they had to order it and they had no IDEA how long it would take for part to come in...
hh: Glad this was not my dealer.......As mine has it in stock and if he didn't he would take it from a display and then replace that one in a pinch...
As one who has commented adversely sometimes on manufacturer and dealer service, I probably ought to say that it seems like most of the issues seem to be with the dealers and manufacturers that are not here on the hearth - perhaps that might even be a useful test in evaluating a dealer :coolhmm: Mention Hearth.com and see what kind of reaction you get - Plus points if they tell you their username, neutral if you get a blank look (maybe half credit if they sound like they'd be interested in checking the place out) and minus points if they rank on it...
That said, I ought to say mildly positive things about the Chelmsford Fireplace Center in Chelmsford, MA - I've been getting a lot of my pipes and other stove related stuff from them, and found them to be reasonably knowledgable, helpful, etc. and to have pretty decent prices. They have a good number of stoves and fireplaces on display, and a shop that is well organized and neat. They seem to do Direct Vent gas stuff and wood stoves, no ventless, and no pellets, their stoves were all non-cat. I don't know how they are about service, never having used them for that, but all my dealings with them have been positive.
Gooserider
That said, I ought to say mildly positive things about the Chelmsford Fireplace Center in Chelmsford, MA - I've been getting a lot of my pipes and other stove related stuff from them, and found them to be reasonably knowledgable, helpful, etc. and to have pretty decent prices. They have a good number of stoves and fireplaces on display, and a shop that is well organized and neat. They seem to do Direct Vent gas stuff and wood stoves, no ventless, and no pellets, their stoves were all non-cat. I don't know how they are about service, never having used them for that, but all my dealings with them have been positive.
Gooserider
You know before you get involved witha dealer ypi can check the BB o to see if any complaints are on record
for that matter the attorney's general's office ore any state consumer protection type agency.
I'm not going to pile it on dealers on an open forum where it seems vogue to diss the crap out of them.
How many times have we advised to do your research and find a good dealer instead of just shopping price.
At times one does get what they paid for, where a few extra $$$ from a good dealer is worth it
for that matter the attorney's general's office ore any state consumer protection type agency.
I'm not going to pile it on dealers on an open forum where it seems vogue to diss the crap out of them.
How many times have we advised to do your research and find a good dealer instead of just shopping price.
At times one does get what they paid for, where a few extra $$$ from a good dealer is worth it
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