Fire Chief or Shelter EPA stoves feedback

[Mrpelletburner]

Just don't think there is still secondary combustion when reloading.

 

[Medic21]

There is the whole problem with this stove. The secondary combustion is almost nonexistent unless it is pushed to the extreme. By closing down the air intake there is almost no airflow when it's just cruising.

Yes, if it's hot when reloaded with the blower running it will take off on its own.

 

[brenndatomu]

By closing down the air intake there is almost no airflow when it's just cruising.

Ageed.
And what airflow there still is, short circuits out the first couple primary air holes. Why would it meander its way clear up to the secondary air channel, then squeeze its way out those tiny holes, when it can go right out the first big hole it can find!?

 

[JRHAWK9]

It shouldn't really have to 'catch' though, on a reload. As long as there are some coals there, it should start smoldering immediately, and the smoke/gasses that the smoldering makes should get burned off in secondary combustion. Unless it has gone pretty cold, in which case yes it might take longer to get everything established. But certainly not 'forever'. Or at least that's how a properly designed unit should burn. The primary fire will slowly build up some, while the secondary burns away.

yep!

hell, I've been noticing secondary combustion already within 5-10 minutes of lighting a fire with a luke warm firebox. Having DRY wood and a properly designed furnace is nice!

 

[brenndatomu]

yep!

hell, I've been noticing secondary combustion already within 5-10 minutes of lighting a fire with a luke warm firebox. Having DRY wood and a properly designed furnace is nice!

And that's 4.5 - 9.5 minutes after closing the firebox door and going back upstairs, right?!

 

[JRHAWK9]

And that's 4.5 - 9.5 minutes after closing the firebox door and going back upstairs, right?!

exactly!

 

[KC Matt]

First, I wish you and your family the best of luck. With that death trap running in your house, you need all the luck you can get. Second, I can't believe you are still running that thing. Third, I can't believe the manufacturer is walking away from this unit. Fourth, I can't believe how hard you guys have to work and how perfect conditions have to be in order to use this POS furnace! I would demand a refund.

I have an old Tundra I and it's 1000x better than what you have. Yes, I added controllers, but it was worth it. The furnace works flawlessly and I have spent far less time (and probably money) than you have and you are nowhere near a workable solution. Cut that POS loose before it kills you!

 

[BoiledOver]

This thread had become an eyesore long ago.

Just get the Kuuma and be done with it. See the linked thread. Even if you can't get the voucher, just do it! Then take what ever you can squeeze from the old stove manufacturer. Imagine the stress reduction and regained time for other daily considerations. Material things can be replaced but time and humans cannot.

A snapshot from the American Lung Association website:

 

[Wood1Dennis]

Just because you didn't happen to jump through hoop A on the way to hoop B while crossing road C before meeting road D doesn't mean you did anything wrong. Any wood furnace which makes it to market should not have a very specific set of prerequisites one must meet in order for it not to become a health/safety hazard. Quit putting the blame on yourself and direct it where it should be going........to the manufacturer.

Frankly MrPB I am amazed that you are still working with this unit. I would have given up a long time ago.

I think about this string every time I fire my stove up. During the shoulder season like this it usually goes something like this. Stir up the coals and move them to the middle of the firebox. Wait 1 min. for them to get hot. Add wood, two larger pieces on the outside, smalls or kindling on the coals, some bigger pieces as needed. Open the damper and close the door. Wait for a min. or two for the coals to ignite the kindling. If there are a lot of coals she might be going almost right away, not so many and I may have to start a new fire with newspaper. Within a min. or two the secondaries are burning & the firebox clears up. In a few minutes the fire is gong strong I close the intake down, adjust it a little and she is cruising along for many hours. Easy, peasy. A pleasure to work with. Every time.

I burn wood to save money, sure. But I also enjoy the whole process. Getting out in the woods to cut, split, stack is a hobby. But so is firing up the furnace on a cold morning. Watching the fire take, feeling the heat. It is relaxing and soothing to me. That is a part of the wood burning process that I hope you discover. It seems as if it may not be possible with your stove. Way to much hassle.

 

[brenndatomu]

Well written! ^ ^ ^ You need to post here more often @Wood1Dennis !

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Reason why I continue to burn the stove is so HY-C can't come back and say I didn't try something.

HY-C's latest suggestion is to install a return air supply vs depending on having the basement door wide open. Not sure if the thought process is to return warm air or to eliminate any negative pressure. Frankly I am tired of being jerked around and random follow ups and empty promises of a working stove.

I hope anyone thinking about purchasing any HY-C furnace reads this thread and runs the other direction. Yes, they have folks answer the phone, however the direction you receive is always something new.

Let me be clear.... It is the start up 1-4 hour period and reload/recovery process that SUCKS WHEN and ONLY WHEN the stove hits a good operational temperature does the stove burn correctly with the inductor blower slider opened 3/8". However the start and reload just leads to a TON of smoke and crazy creosote build up, at least for myself.

The following videos illustrate the painful starting process and how the fire gets choked when shutting the doors.

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[JRHAWK9]

This thread had become an eyesore long ago.

Just get the Kuuma and be done with it. See the linked thread. Even if you can't get the voucher, just do it! Then take what ever you can squeeze from the old stove manufacturer. Imagine the stress reduction and regained time for other daily considerations. Material things can be replaced but time and humans cannot.

A snapshot from the American Lung Association website:

View attachment 225773

I guess the old adage of, "you can lead a horse to water but can't force him to drink" comes to mind about right now.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

@JRHAWK9 We don't qualify as our household income is above what is outlined.

 

[maple1]

Not sure what that means. 'Return air' = do they mean the air that is being heated & sent to the house, or combustion air? Either way, your baro readings throw that out the window - it would seem to me. They are just yanking you around more.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Return air from the house

 

[brenndatomu]

Yup...Chain < = > Yank

If you have your basement door wide open, this will do nothing, zero, zilch, nada.
Plus you have dispelled the negative pressure thing with an open window.
I think there are a dozen or so people here on Hearth that could design circles around these...
...yahoos at HY-C.

Prior to this I would have considered Firechief/Shelter to be a mid range/upper end furnace...not no mo!!

 

[brenndatomu]

IMO, the more time goes by, the more likely they are gonna tell you to pound salt when you say you want off this merry-go-round

 

[JRHAWK9]

IMO, the more time goes by, the more likely they are gonna tell you to pound salt when you say you want off this merry-go-round

I'm sure that's why they have him chasing his tail.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

Ok I have had enough of playing along... HY-C requested photos of a fresh split of wood, same request that was made back on March 16th. So I send the same exact photos as I did on the 16th and was immediately told that the photos did not appear to be the same log and to re-take photos. IMO the wood I was burning in March, is far more relevant then wood I am bringing in the day I am burning as my supply in the basement has been used.

 

[brenndatomu]

 

[Medic21]

This thread had become an eyesore long ago.

View attachment 225773

I have to agree. While not perfect I have began to dial this thing in and have tried to offer advice. I am starting to be happy with it, getting 10-12 hour burn times in 30 degree weather. I attribute the issues I have had as I have never had a EPA stove and it burns different.

After I saw your last post @Mrpelletburner where you went and threw up the communication between yourself and company reps trying to help you out I have to say something. That would be like you calling 911 for a fire and when I show up you know better than me in how to extinguish said fire.

I have told you to quit being a slave to a thermometer. The only one you need to see is the flue temp and that is only there as a safety. You were burning way too cool, I did too at first and had issues. I see you have started to go hotter with better results. My time in the Military taught me the definition of insanity as doing the same thing the same way expecting different results. You need to change something up. Hotter burns, different wood. Your at a huge disadvantage from me as I cut mine and know what I got. A cold air return may be the difference. Yes, I know you keep the door open to the basement but, just as with firefighting, introducing a negative pressure from a fan in a room will at the bare minimum create a draw for a little bit in the direct area. The fan is 3 feet away from you air intake.

Your kinda lucky that I'm not your rep with the last post. After agreeing to spend a few hundred dollars to a grand, you get defiant online. I would have washed my hands and told you to take it up with where you bought it.

The problems I still have are a smoke smell when the blower kicks in with the inducer off. And a lower draft with different winds. Hoping to fix those this summer with a taller stack and a cold air return. If it doesn't fix those issues the thing will go in the shop and I'll start over in the house. It is what it is. If someone came to me today I would not recommend this product as a primary heat source. I will not bash someone trying to help me.

 

[brenndatomu]

I will not bash someone trying to help me.

Are they? At this point I personally think they are just yankin his chain waiting for spring to come, then this fall it is almost a year later, and its just sorry about your luck then...SOL.
I've personally dealt with 3 different wood furnace manufactures dealing with problems...2 of them went above and beyond to help me, and the 3rd was adequately helpful...waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than what it sounds like he's getting here.

 

[Medic21]

Are they? At this point I personally think they are just yankin his chain waiting for spring to come, then this fall it is almost a year later, and its just sorry about your luck then...SOL.
I've personally dealt with 3 different wood furnace manufactures dealing with problems...2 of them went above and beyond to help me, and the 3rd was adequately helpful...waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than what it sounds like he's getting here.

They are willing to spend their money to install a cold air return. That's more help than most companies would ever give.

I have had very different interactions with them than he has. I listened to their suggestions and have been able to get it burning fairly well.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

@Medic21 - I am not being a slave to the temps. Have followed their instructions to the “T”, which I have well documented. Have changed my setup 3 times, including rotating the stove. Was suggested to install a bio damper (remember how that went)? What keeps happening is back puffing from the stove pipe, hours after the stove has started.

Over a week ago it was stated that they would pay for a HVAC person to install a return duct. At that time they only asked if I could recommend someone and if they had the ok. Didn’t have anyone to recommend and they had the green light. A week goes by and they again ask if I have someone to recommend and I had yet to give the green light. Then all of a sudden before they do anything they want photos of a split of wood with the moisture measured. I did this same exercise back on March 16th and sent the photos. I was then told they don’t believe the photos and to do the test again.

Let me repeat that... they don’t believe the photos, even though I included the meta data time stamps and can highlight the split marks. Was told time stamps are to advanced of a technology. WTF

I am sorry I have spent a ton of time providing videos, photos and other documentation. I have dealt with smoke detectors going off in the middle of the night. Explosions from the stove pipe after following their suggestions.

So please pardon my frustration. Glad that things are working for you and your suggestions have been help. However after all the crap I have been through, in no way should HY-C say they don’t believe me.

At this point I just want a refund!

 

[brenndatomu]

At this point I deserve a refund!

Fixed it for ya...