Everything Fisher

[raypa]

thanks for the painting tip Redbear

Coaly, You mention the taper is on the last 4 inches of the leg going from 1.5" to 1". The photo looks as though the taper goes down to a 3/4" inch. Can you verify. I have a saw to the steel....lol.

 

[coaly]

The taper starts 4 inches from the bottom, and tapers down to 1 inch. So the metal contact on the floor is a 1 X 1 inch L . ( All leg tolerances are +/- 1/16" ) I know the pictures don't look it, but the measurments I give on the parts are from the actual prints.

No gasket Bill, the first post in the detailed Grandpa thread covers it.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/76349/

The only stoves from Fisher that used gasket material were glass doors. A search of Fisher and Gasket should give you many replies with the pros and cons.

 

[raypa]

Great. I just wanted to double check since the picture looked different. I'll have this done with photos before the end of the weekend.

Big Friday night. Playing with an old burner.

 

[CamFan]

Hey CamFan, thanks for the reply. Would a Fisher have had a gasket? Or would the gasket be an addition someone added later?

well this has been discussed before. I worked in the plant and have no clue when we started to add gasket to the stoves. Coaly knows. But from experience any fisher that you can cut a piece of a standard card board box about 1/2" wide and put it in the channel on the hinge side or sides of the stove and you can shut the doors normally and lock the handle then you can add gasket. If it binds and you can not lock it adjust the handle. Good luck and let me know what you find out.

 

[raypa]

Well, with company, the kids, the dogs, the wife and .... I got one leg on tonight. I could be done, but wasn't in a hurry. I did taper the legs. pics will come on Sun when I'm done.
Coaly, there is no way that drawing is to scale or is in accurate. Think about the dimensions and measure the print. I bet it tapers to less than 1". ...but I tapered my new legs to 1" and they look just fine.

 

[coaly]

Far as I know PA never added them. They always welded the hinge where it was supposed to be. :lol:
The topic's been beat to death; Loose hinge pin holes and worn hinge pins are the biggest culprit. The door is no longer where it was when put on if there is slop in the hinge. I've seen hinge pins with only half left ! I stress keep them greased to prevent wear in the first place ! Drilling out and oversize pins is the cure for worn out hinge holes.

There is a note on the drawings that reads "Do not remove more than 0.050" if surfacing seals". So obviously machine surfacing was known to be able to make a better seal. In my steam experience lapping valves, seats and flanges to be steam tight, I came up with the idea to take course grinding compound on the 3 sealing areas of the door, and with stove on it's back, hinge pins removed, let door weight press the surfaces together moving door in all directions. You can tell where it touches right away by the gray color where they touch. Lap until you get consistent color showing even contact. It's only a few thousandths. I posted how to do this way back in this thread. Now seeing the prints, my hand machining the surfaces is exactly what the engineers were referring to.

I think it's a climate issue too. We're cold enough with normal temps 0 to 30 above most of the heating season. We usually go an entire month without breaking the freezing mark. Warmest days we're still running 1/4 to half turn, so a leaker is just right with caps cracked. I run a flue damper too, so controlling the draft reduces the leakage in. You can learn to run the stove with or without minor leaks and get the same results. Put gasket in, and you're going to run the air open more that's all. Never had one run too hot with the intakes closed. That's the only time it should become an issue. Trying to get a longer burn time by depriving it of air is just going to smoke and drop flue temperature making a mess.

Maybe I'm just used to antique cast stoves that gaskets fall off the door, get out of shape on the ash pan, and need attention when they're hot and you can't do much about it. The stove has to be cold to re-glue and the house cools down to fix it. Then it's a day to recover..... When I got my new Fisher, I thought it was great that I didn't have to deal with that anymore. It's proved to me year after year it doesn't need a gasket.

 

[coaly]

Measured the drawing. Scale is drawn to 1/4 = 1 inch. But the taper length of the front leg on right isn't as long as the rear leg on right. Only the 4 inch taper is drawn 1/8 inch shorter, so the angle doesn't look right. The length and width are to scale. Here's a pic showing both. Everything on the rear leg on left measures to scale. I'm surprised you could pick that up in the picture. Camera angle can make it look different too. (I had to use no flash with reflection on white paper, so that's coaly's shadow, with hands on camera and head, not a stain on the print)
More than likely these were drawn on an old table that holds the square straight with strings, and it was stretched or broken. Now you know why there were questions from fabricators and discrepancies with the prints adding to the pressures that he took personally.
It's all in the book! You need to let that stove alone long enough to read it. I know it's tough.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/Book_-_The_Fisher_Stove_Story/

 

[raypa]

I'm kind of happy with it. Critique? Coaly, thanks for the tips on the legs!
I picked up the stove brite in satin black today. Very expensive!

Since I'm selling this once I'm done. I in debate on whether to put the baffle in. $$ plate is pricey!

Funny thing is my Baker stove in my house is almost identical to this. I should put on a photo of it.

 

[raypa]

New legs, blasted and satin black stove brite. I wasn't real happy with the quality of nozzle they put on the stove brite cans. It spattered and I had to keep wiping the nozzle off. I still may do the fisher in silver and maybe the trees. Not sure. Debating weather to fire it with the paint or just let the buyer do it.
I'm going to let it dry today and maybe toy with it tonight.

 

[CamFan]

You should be proud. Nice job!

 

[Redbear86]

I agree with Camfan, looks great! Shouldn't have any problem turning a few bucks on it it if you can part with it.

 

[BillsWS]

Holly cow Ray, that looks awesome. Doesn't even look like the first pic you posted. Nice work.

 

[coaly]

Ahh, I can almost smell the Stove Bright, very nice. Old Grandpa was on his death bed a few days ago.
I find if the cans of paint are warm, and shaken a lot they work very well. Temperature changes the viscosity and the pressure. Huge difference. During summer I set them in the sun before using. Winter, I let mine in the same room as the stove that heats the house the night before using. Once you get it the way you want, you should fire it outside with a couple pieces of pipe on it. Stove bright stinks as I'm sure you found out, and it's bad burning it off too. This doesn't want to be done inside. The paint is also very soft, and scratches easily before being cured with heat. Strapping it, or riding against something will mar it easily before curing.
A Grandma sold on eBay the other day for $550. It had the rarer '76 doors, screen and feet. So it's worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Making $100 is about right when you buy them that only need paint, and don't use much fuel transporting. The glass stoves draw a premium. Prices also vary by season. Most refurbishers do a bunch over the summer, and start selling in October.

 

[raypa]

Thanks everyone! Yes I saw the grandma Coaly. I'm nervous about firing it as I don't want the paint to partially cure. Meaning the top back side and front cure with color change and the legs and front ash dish stay a little darker. (I'm used to the home depot grill black). I have some pipe. I should fire it and take the $13.95 chance just so I know how this paint works. Plus tthat is great excuse to pull up some chairs in the driveway and have a beer. Right?

I was debating on that screen on ebay for $50. I just don't know if the investment is worth while. to up the value. I'm thinking someone would purchase it either way.


I really don't want to part with it as it is very cool, especially as I'm reading the Fisher book. (thanks for the tip Coaly) BUT, just as Fisher did. I need to make some money to heat my garage if the temperatures ever drop. Yes, I just said that. It was 50 her in Pittsburgh today!

I'm happy with the way it turned out for my first rehab. I did have a question. Ho do the chrome springs attach? I push mine on and they are a little loose. I have them soaking now to get the junk off and will shine them up before finalizing it.

Now I want a mama or papa what the heck or baby. I'm curious just to see one.

i still need to get some good photos and list it. Do you guys thing I should do the silver on the FISHER or Fir Trees or even the dampener knobs?

Thanks!!

Ray

 

[coaly]

The paint won't change in years of firing. It's good stuff.
Squeeze the spring handles down with a pair of pliers until you can screw them on. When you go to remove them, they should tighten on the shaft. You have to lock on the last curl of the spring and turn with pliers to allow the spring to loosen. When they were removed, they probably unwound a bit.
The screen you need is a chrome frame that locks on with two handles.
As long as you don't decorate the trees with colored dots I guess it's OK.
Here's one of your competitors on eBay. Personally, I'd paint them any color, as long as it's black.

The dampener knobs (Draft Caps) are already silver. You take some metal polish and buff the paint off the edges. There are a few styles of caps, shown earlier in this thread. Polished, brushed, painted. Yours were black.

 

[BillsWS]

I got to talking wood stoves with a guy today. He said he had an old stove in his basement that heats like mad. It has two arched doors with glass, step top design, top exhaust with vent caps on the sides. I asked if he knew the brand; Fisher. I asked him to get a picture of it for me. Maybe I can find out what brand of beer he drinks and invite myself over. LOL.

He asked me where he could get a short piece of 8" vent pipe with a damper in it. He had tried Menards and Tractor Supply. I told him I would check here. Any suggestions?

 

[coaly]

If it's single wall, you put a manual damper in a piece of pipe. Should be in the first piece coming off the stove. Very simple, stick 2 X 4 through pipe, support board on ends to let pipe hang. Drive nail through one side of pipe into wood. Repeat other side, insert damper.

 

[BillsWS]

Hi Coaly. I suggested that, he didn't want to do it, wants to find a ready made set-up. Just found this on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Hpi-Dura-Vent...2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1326161817&sr=1-2

 

[coaly]

Sorry, all the dampers are on one shelf, and the pipe is on another. Putting it together is supposed to be the fun part.

 

[raypa]

Finished the book today. Interesting story. I wish it had the rest of the story to it.

 

[coaly]

That is the end of the book as written by Claudia, John Lynn's wife. The first convention of manufacturers started Thursday June 23 1977 and ended at the end of the book on Saturday June 25. John was then the assistant to the new General Manager Henry Eaton. John later became President and she wrote the book in 1979.

This thread continues the story on the first page with the use of news articles;
Since I started compiling this information, I have many more news articles, obituaries, and information on many licensees. To roughly outline the business from 1977 to 1985 I've compiled the following facts;

Bob originally sold out of his welding shop, and Quackenbush's store in Springfield. He started his own store Fisher Stoves and Antiques Main St, Springfield and later added a second store in Eugene. Here's an original ad from his own store;
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAIBAJ&pg=5096,4830050&dq=fisher+stove&hl=en

In 1977 Earl and Marge Wing began manufacturing under contract in Eugene called Industrial Construction Company. This can be found on many tags.

During 1977, they became agents and minority owners.

By 1978, a professional management team was hired. Carol had an office at the headquarters building (Fisher Stoves Int. 1500 Valley River Drive, Eugene) for consulting on decisions. Bobby was Chairman, but stayed on the farm.

Nationwide, the month of December 1978 sold 156,000 stoves. July, August, Sept. 1979 sold 468,000. At this rate, chimney manufacturers could not keep up. #3 News article cited below.

In 1981, ownership was changed to Trygve Vic, (Pronounced TRIG-va) a Norwegian who started a Family Trust; Vic Construction Company. The company was reorganized and became Fisher - Century Corporation Dec. 1 1981. Tom Engle the current President of the Eugene facility Century Ind. became the President and CEO. The stoves were sold around the world through a group of 30 independant licensees and 2500 dealers.

Trygve Vic died Nov. 27 2006 at 82.
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we...page=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

Ownership went briefly to a North Carolina company that hoped to use the Fisher name with a new line of stoves. Fisher licensees were shutting down all over the country. In 1983, the company came back to Bobby and Carol.

During the third week of August 1984, the Wings repurchased all the stock of the business to become sole owners. They employed 35 workers, made 18 models, and due to lacking sales were decreasing production to 6 models the following year. These models became the VI Series.

I'll continue and update this post from 1986 to the end of production as I organize my info and confirm before posting. This could take a while !
The above facts are taken from newspapers that had incorrect company addresses (transposed street numbers) and incorrect dates stating the business was started in 1971, when we know the first stove was built October 1973. Be aware that history changes as more information is put together and corrected.

Informative news articles cited;
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...,4144743&dq=toftness+radiation+detector&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAAIBAJ&pg=6373,4247434&dq=fisher+stove&hl=en
http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...AAIBAJ&pg=2636,4487770&dq=fisher+stoves&hl=en

 

[raypa]

I just think it is pretty cool that my first stove was and All Nighter and now I have a Baker. Which from what I'm gathering may have been Licencees that both started their own gig after working with Fisher. Both units (especially the baker) are nearly identical to the Fisher with the addition of a blower systems.

 

[gsheller]

Hello everyone. I just joined this site and have read most of "Everything Fisher", but have one question as I look for a large Fisher (either Papa or Grandpa or XL) to put in my pole barn. (I apologize if the answer is in here already and I missed it.)

My questions: Did the Papa Bear ever get redesigned with the baffle in the same way that the Grandpa Bear was redesigned as the Grandpa III? If so, how do you tell if you are looking at an updated Papa?

Also, do the baffle and non-baffle stoves put out the same amount of heat?

Thank you for the help!

Garrett

 

[coaly]

Welcome to the forum;
You didn't miss anything, it's a complicated question. But a good one.
The first Bear Series and Fireplace Series had no baffle provision. The revisions are by separate drawings of each part or new added part. One revision dated July 19 1977 adds a "Draft Box" and "Draft Box Baffle". These revisions are marked Grandma and Grandpa II. This was the first form of a baffle system. (There are revisions adding rear and bottom shields on the Fireplace Series designating them II as well. There is a note on those drawings stating "If the stove is installed on hearth in front of fireplace, vented into fireplace, shields are not required"). I don't have the redesigned Fireplace Series (III) prints for 1980, but the Smoke Shelf Baffle is shown in the 1980 owners manual.
Smoke Shelf Baffles were in the Fireplace Series III, Goldilocks, and Teddy Bear. The round plate across the flue was in the Honey Bear. The Insert only had a damper.
I have no revision showing any type baffle in the Bear Series from 1977.

These were all 6 inch compared to the 8 inch baffled stoves. So you have to take into consideration the stoves were made for larger 8 and 10 inch fireplace chimneys. That's what was existing, not 6 inch insulated high performance chimneys. Heat loss up the larger flues of the time was necessary, so a baffle added to make the Bear Series more efficient could cause rapid creosote formation. The worst publicity from customers would be a stove that works good, but loads up your chimney and burns your house down. So there's a fne line on how efficient one could be built.

Here's an ad showing the line for 1980 with the redesigned doors. Kinda cool seeing all the models together. The double doors would be baffled.
(broken link removed to http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GWAtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=H4gFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3330,8777721&dq=fisher+air+tight+stove&hl=en)
From left, Baby, Mama, Papa, Goldilocks, Grandma , Grandpa, Insert. Not sure why the XL isn't shown. So far the ads I've found showing them are in Salt Lake City, Utah papers. The 'Sun' doors are marked with an embossed design the shape of Utah, and the serial number tag ends in UT. They were probably available by special order to other dealers. Time will tell if others appear made elsewhere. The first style with Sun doors had no baffle and have only been found with rear vent. The Fir Tree door style had a baffle. And was available in rear or top vent. It makes sense that the Fir Tree XL that matches the GM and GP III should be an XL III, but until I see a tag or paperwork on one, I won't speculate.

The IV was a glass Fireplace Series and Insert.
If there was a V, it was revisions in prints like the II, not on tags or advertised. (?)

The later Bear Series VI show no sign of a baffle system shown below.

I don't know the difference in heat output. The heat radiates noticeably more towards the front, so since the rear vent elbow is cooler, this heat being directed to the stove top has to make a difference. I heated with a baffled Goldilocks 24/7 for years with very little smoke. When I went to a Mama Bear this year, it smoked. My neighbors could tell the difference when I put the baffle in, and my neighbors aren't close. I didn't run it long enough this Fall without the baffle to notice output increase. My main reason for adding the baffle was after two nights of burning, the milk soured in the fridge 7 feet from the rear of the stove. My stove is in the middle of a large kitchen. Centralized in the house. The heat emitting from the rear elbow radiated towards the fridge, and the baffle directs it to the stove top. An Ecofan helps blow it forward. That's a lot of heat not going up the chimney. No creosote problem, so it was all wasted heat going up. I was surprised at the drastic reduction in smoke. If you're burning the smoke in the stove, you have to be getting the extra heat out of it.

 

[Finest Fishers]

Miscellaneous pics, pin holes , pat #'s, door castings