Everything Fisher

[coaly]

And I don't expect you to listen to me either. It's very easy to put an adjustable wrench on it and tweak it cold.

 

[raypa]

Hello! First time on the forum. I picked this up yesterday. I believe it is a grampa bear. It appears to be in decent shape with little pitting. There is a M G/P stamped on the door. My plan is to buy, restore and resell a couple of burners so that I can get a larger furnace style burner for my garage. I stumbled upon this forum yesterday and see that you guys really know what your talking about with these Fishers. My tentative plan is to verify it is in good working order, clean it up, repaint and sell it. The guy I purchased it from did not have the feet nor the screen. I had a couple questions. First, how woud you go about painting the christmas trees? Would you just free hand brush them with some stove bright? I'm not replating anything, I'm just going to spit shine it real good and install some new firebrick. Would it hurt to sandblast it with some black beauty to remove the old paint?

What type of value do you think I could get for it once it spiffed up. I think the white on the unit is burnt, non-heat proof paint from the previous owner.

I have an older Baker similar to this that we heat our house that has a blower system inside and an 94 Englander wood furnace out in the grage. I would like to get something a little bigger for the grage as I'm a bit heat deprived due to lack of insulation.

I really apriciate any input you all may have.

Great forum!! (I'm hoping these pictures work)

Thanks,Ray

 

[coaly]

Welcome to the forum;
There are a few people across the country doing this, and just like the dealers that were pitted against each other, some are good people, some not so good. They read this Forum, and I try to stay neutral since I'm not a seller. This forum is a good place to start, and there is a big difference between painting one up to spiff it up to make a buck and knowing the history of each part and making it "correct". This thread along with the Grandpa Details thread will have the most info compiled to date. Compare stove reconditioning to someone buying a car and painting it for resale. There is a big difference between a mechanic holding a state inspection license going over the vehicle or a factory trained dealer of that brand making it 100%. So you're up against some competition on eBay that has been setting the price of reconditioned and rare stoves. By searching completed auctions, and keeping a current list of sold stoves, you will get the feel of what they have sold for. They have already become "vintage" and "antique" so like anything else no longer made are only going up in value. They are already selling for more than when they were made, but you can't compare them to a Round Oak either. Who knows what 50 more years will do to the price.

First, I'll clarify that the trees are not "Christmas Trees". They are Fir Trees. They were added to the doors to prevent them from cracking. They were used because they are the most common indigenous tree to Bob Fisher's area. Here in the east, we wouldn't think of burning pine or evergreen soft woods, but in some western states that's all they have. They only get oak when a pallet from the east is sent there, and the first stove was made to burn what they have. "The Stump" an area close to where he lives now was his "thinking spot" and holds a special importance to his life and stove business. Reading the Fisher Stove Story will gain you insight to his stove.

To verify if it's in good working order, is fairly simple. Cracks in sheets or welds, loose worn draft caps, worn hinges or pins are the simple things to fix. (as long as you have a welder and know where to buy draft caps and parts. These are the basics) Blasting removes rust, but can ruin a rare collector stove, that should be done with walnut shells so it doesn't change the surface of the metal. This model should have a baffle added if none is in it before resale, and the legs don't look right. They should be a minimum 6 inches. They need to be this minimum length for codes as well since stove height changes the floor protection requirements. This year should have tapered legs, the last 4 inches of each side of angle iron tapers down to 1 inch at the bottom. Later stoves were cut with a 45* angle, but your picture covers the leg ends. This helps date the stove. The bear feet wouldn't go on a tapered leg, they were designed later. If your legs have been cut off, the adjustible chrome balls would have been on a welded rod at the bottom. If corners angles are shorter than the following specs, you may as well cut them off and make new.
Here's the specs of the legs from the stove drawings; Part Number 406 being the rear leg measuring 31" and the front corner Part Number 407 being 25" overall long. They are made of 1 1/2" angle iron X 3/16 thick.

The stove came with a screen originally, and there were many versions. To make it "correct" the year must be known. (An early one is available close to you on the Ohio border that didn't get a bid yesterday on eBay. $50 was the starting price, and as cheap as you're going to find one. It should add $150 to the stove price. The later chrome frame type would fit, but is for a later stove) If this is a PA built stove, it will probably have a number in weld on the bottom followed by PA. There is a list of build dates and original customer names corresponding to that stove number. I would guess yours to be in the '77 model year due to the 4 fin caps and first style spring handles. The doors should be marked G/P for Grandpa, and L and R for Left and Right close to the G/P. A large M by itself is a foundry mark common on single doors of that time period. As time went on, other foundries across the country produced doors for Fisher to prevent shipping cross country and get them quicker to fabricators.

Guess it depends on how serious you want to get !

 

[raypa]

Thanks Coaly.

I will have to look at the doors and legs. It is currently stuck in my truck until I can get some help to unload it. Hind sight is a kick in the pants some times.
I only want to get semi serious. Not really looking to compete on the $1200 Fishers on ebay. If I can turn a hundred bucks or so, I would be happy! Basically shine it up for someone to use and not necessarily "antique/collect". Or does it appear from the photos that I should be attempting a more serious referbishment? I've never have done this before.

What are the draft caps? Are the the same as fin caps? You also mention adding a baffle to it. Can you explain?

If you were a rookie like me, which way would you take this. My end goal is not to ruin the original design by doing too much, but not necessarily make it show room ready.

I greatly appriciate this insight. It is rather a pleasant learning experience rather than just welding something up and being done. (Nothing appears as though it needs welded and the steel is all straight).

thanks!

 

[BillsWS]

I am glad this thread is moving again, I love reading here- Thanks Coaly. Wow Ray, you saved that stove. In the pictures she (the stove) looks pretty beat up. I hope you can clean her up (and pleaase post some pics along the way) and make a new owner proud of having a piece of history (and make a buck or two in the process) and good heat to boot. Ooorah!

 

[raypa]

Yes, that is why I'm seeking advice. I don't want to be that guy that ruins something that has the potential of being special. I'll take all the advice I can get and will implement it as financially practical as possible. I see BillsWS you are picking up my wife (stove that is) soon. I'm going to have to find a place to buy walnut shells for blasting. Where do you guys get your stove bright from? Should I be looking at Satin Black? Are people hand painting the FIR trees (thanks for the correction Coaly)?

I'm shopping around looking for a cherry picker to get the thing out of my truck. I would hate to have to referb it in the bed of my truck unde my cap. lol.

 

[BillsWS]

That's great Ray. I won't be doing any refurbishing. I just like the Fisher stove, story, look, etc... I don't even know what I am going to do with the stove besides put it in storage with my two (or by then three) other stoves. I don't know if I will be looking for any more but I am glad I found the one not too far away from me.

 

[coaly]

Sand isn't going to hurt that stove any. Nothing special, just an old Grandpa (male if has 6 bricks across back, female if it has 5) Each stove has it's own personality, but I try to name the Mamas female and Papas male. Honey Bears, Baby Bears and Inserts are up for debate.
I do recondition some for friends, neighbors and family. I have a waiting list for Mama and Papas.
The key is 4 wheel dolly's, hand cart, ramp, levers and wheels. You should be able to drive hours for one and know you can load it yourself. Getting them OUT of unforeseen basements, soft yards, and stone driveways should be expected. Steps are the worst requiring help or a come-along cable for safety. I've blocked up stairs with 4 X 4s to support the extra weight and driven through lake effect snow to Buffalo. You will have a story about everyone you pick up, and sometimes it's owner. I've met quite a few original Fisher owners that shared their story buying and bringing their new stove home. Over the holiday, I called many I bought them from and am on a personal basis with some with an invite to return when in their area. When Bob said Welcome to the Fisher Stove family he wasn't kidding. I'm dealing with some original owners, dealers and distributers getting up in years, in poor health and making time to visit.
Satin Black is the closest to original and Stove Bright is the best paint. Rutland when on sale at Home Depot is fine for users. It's more flat after curing. You should fire them outside to cure, since transporting scrapes the soft uncured paint. I find Rustoleum BBQ Black to be the worst for dark pigment, drying a dark gray. The old originals were brushed, but you won't find any like that getting them from the east coast. Yours was done with high temp paint, just burned that hot. As long as it's not warped and all panels are flat, no harm done.

You need to read lots of threads using the search feature, as this thread you're on starts with draft cap info on post #4. (air damper as patented by Bob's father)

Here's a baffle thread to get you started;
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/82318/

 

[raypa]

Sad thing is I read all 15 pages.... just too much info. Just got it off the truck. I had a pit stop and picked up an old Stove and Range Co. of Pittsburgh No.22 burner. It's a little old to say the least somewhere around the turn of the century from what I understand. I have to figure out how to date it. Back to the fisher. I'm going to look at the legs. they do seem a bit short going to measure them now. If I fix them, should I cut at the base of the burner or replace the whole piece of angle to the top. (I can do either, just don't want to ruin any originality.) will report shortly. I'm sitting here typing while the Englander is warming up the garage.....

 

[raypa]

Drug it out to the driveway an blew it out with the leaf blower.. what a mess... my shop vac was choking too. OK Rear legs 27.25" front legs 21". Welding on the bottom is : 6549 PA The doors R and L G/P PC. I have 6 brick across the back so I'm guessing it is male. this is fun. Now, how to do attack it? Where do i cut and weld the legs? No the bottom is bowed up in the middle with a 1/4" dome in the center. I thought it was just the brick but is the lower steel too. Do I pull the brick and heat and hammer it out? I was going to re brick it. Should I or is it more desireable as is. the brick are in decent condition. about 10 of the 30 are broken. My englander just does not want to burn hot. (it is new to the garage too) Lots of wood little heat. I'll start a new thread for that... Anyways. I'm going to order some stove bright. I remember reading where to get it somewhere here and will retrace my steps. I think tractor supply may have walnut media for my blaster, if not, it may get some low pressure slag. If I keep the pressure down, I should still maintain a smooth finish. The baffle may just get some angle welded inside for supports rather than using the firebrick to hold it up. I think I have some plate floating around. I wish I had a place to use this. I kind of want to keep it now. .

 

[raypa]

Here are photos of the doors, legs and swelled up floor. There is a PC on the door. I couldn't get a good pic of the bottom welding by my self tonight without dropping the burner. I tossed in the pgh king 22 pics since I was dealing with it tonight too. I will wait to hear from you guys on which way to extend the legs to spec/code. Actually if you notice on the one photo there is letters and numbers on the back of the air vales. I may take it apart just out of curiosity.

 

[BillsWS]

Lokin' good Ray. You got it going.

 

[raypa]

Well see. I want to hear from Coally on what to do with the legs and the bowed bottom and I'll start. I also dont' know where to buy paint. They sell it locally, but it is $$4 13 per rattle can or 13 per brush pint. ..... I think I had an S on the woodsman(s).

 

[coaly]

WOW I was right. The 4 inch taper was cut off the legs. I would make new to the specs I gave you with the part numbers. You'll find it quicker and easier to just replace them than trying to lengthen them. Weld the new on just like the old. Don't add any extra weld for expansion.
The bricks don't look that bad. I'd leave them and the bottom alone. If it really bothers you, I suppose you could try a 4 X 4 inside across the top, and a bottle jack inside to jack the bottom down flat. With the jack on the bricked bottom, the span of the wood across the top should jack it back down. Just a guess, but that's what I'd try. With the bend in the top, it's much stronger and the bottom sheet should go down easy. Jack about 1/2 inch too far to allow for spring back.
I get my paint at the local stove shop that actually built your stove in Factoryville PA. for $10.95 a can. 2 will do you. Metallic is over $17 a can.
Woodman Associates Inc. has been around since 1977. Please edit your post. We try to keep comments accurate here.
(broken link removed)
Here's how to prepare, paint and cure the paint. Click Tips on painting a stove;
(broken link removed)

 

[raypa]

I'll be stopping for some angle today after work. I'll need some for the baffle anyways. I should at least have the legs on by the end of the weekend. I used to have stock steel all over the garage and have used it up over the years on misc projects for other people. I really need to be stingy with my steel. I'm going to straigt leg it. I don't think that I'm going to do the taper. I'll try to keep the brick in thre then. I have a feeling when I start rolling the unit over to cut and weld that the brick may fall out and then I'll be tempted to replace the broken ones.

I kind of like the little cart the thing came with. It makes it easier to move around.

dumb question. how do you clean our the soot without making a dust cloud. My shop vac still seeps dust with the filter on and fills my garage. I need to build a little ramp and do this outside.


Do the trees get hand painted or is there a special way to silver them?


The hardest part now is waiting through 8 hours of work to get back at it.

 

[BillsWS]

Ray, I see that you have asked about painting the trees a couple of times. I have only looked at Fisher's online (Craigslist and here) for a few weeks. Most of them don't have the trees a different color, just black. The few I have seen with the trees "silver" or "pewter" (or whatever) do look sharp though. Coaly or CamFan would give you much more of an accurate, historically factual answer though. As far as cleaning up ashes, I read on here somewhere that there are vacs that are designed for ash pick up (different filter set-up or something). I put the vac outside and run the hose indoors and clean up my ashes, ash pan, around the stove etc... so the fine dust gets blown outside.

 

[coaly]

If you're not going to make original legs and taper them, why go through the aggravation of removing the hinge plates, and re-hanging the doors? To the average restorer, the stove was destroyed when the legs were cut. The rears are easy, may as well add extensions on the front and move on. Next time pass on that kind of stove unless it's free.
I use a shovel, and leave an inch of ash in the stove. If moving one, I shovel them out clean with a mason trowel. It gets into the corners and scrapes it clean. Replacing bricks disturbs lots packed in between them anyway. If replacing all the brick, I scrape out the debris after removal and wipe with a wet paper towel soaked in kerosene or diesel. The ash is too fine for a regular vacuum. Ash vacs are built for it, and can also handle hot coals. Mostly for sweeps and clean up of fireplaces after sweeping chimney.
You can roll them on their side without bricks falling out. They are usually tight and require chiseling to take out in pieces. If a piece of a broken one falls out, carefully replace it. The deep single door stoves are difficult to reach 30" to the rear. Practice on double doors first.
The stoves were originally painted by brush, and later sprayed. Flat top doors were only black. No highlighting was done. There was barely time to paint them at all when they were 25,000 stoves behind. You would have to ask the people that do it today. When the new design came out in 1980, stoves were available for $50 more with nickel or brass plated doors. After painting the door, you wipe the high polished areas, buff with metal polish, and fire to cure.
The plating of an old style flat top door is a custom aftermarket upgrade, shown below before paint. It looks sharp, but not original. Painting the trees is a cheap way to customize the door. That's the difference between $300 and $3.00. The Grandma below was originally all black. Doors were stripped and professionally nickel plated. Sprayed with Stove Bright Metallic Black, and the high areas wiped clean with thinner or spirits before firing.
If you can find 5 or 6 GOOD ones to recondition like this one, there's a waiting list for them. Building crates, learning shipping and having equipment to load is required. If it was easy everyone would be doing it. Chances are your competitors aren't going to give you any tips. Good luck.

 

[raypa]

I see another rookie mistake then. I'm picking up steel today. I'll just don't know what I'm going to taper the legs with. One of the few things I'm missing is a belt sander.

 

[coaly]

Are you texting from metal shop?

 

[raypa]

I wish. I'm just dumb geologist that is a hobbiest welder in my garage. I don't know if a hacksaw /sawzall will give you a decent cut over a 4" flat area it would still need sanded or ground to make it straight. You did say the bottom 4" of the leg taper right? Maybe I'm not picturing it correctly. I was just thinking a grinding wheel or a sander. Ok. you talked me into it. I'll give it a try and see what I can come up with before I tear the front off.

Do you have a photo of the tapered legs?

 

[coaly]

Ah, so you want to work on extinct stoves in your free time, makes sense!
This is the thread with details of your stove; (page 2 has details replacing legs)
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/76349/

The left leg is correct for your approximate year. The ball feet on yours would have been chrome, not brass as pictured. The plated bear feet were an accessory for the newer leg on right cut on a 45*. Pictured on right is a Grandma Bear with the legs yours had.

 

[BillsWS]

Coaly, I "favorited" the Grandpa link, have you started any others? (Oh yeah, I could search I guess).

 

[CamFan]

Thanks Coaly. When I see handles that are not level (symmetrical) with the doors closed (double doors) has the rod bent (from heat) or is there some other reason?

The one exception to this rule is if the stove had gasket and the gasket is gone the door handle will not be the same also.

 

[BillsWS]

Hey CamFan, thanks for the reply. Would a Fisher have had a gasket? Or would the gasket be an addition someone added later?

 

[Redbear86]

Ray, the way I painted the trees on my door silver was to take the hi temp silver spray paint and hit the trees pretty good, then paint the rest of the stove with the brush-on black. With a small brush with paint in the bristles, hold the brush handle more horizontal and the bristles will flatten out you can edge the trees and horizon this way. I thought it works really well, was pretty easy, just took a little patience brushing in all the edges. After trying to tape off the trees a couple times i can tell you that is not the way to go!