enviro windsor high temp sensor tripping UPDATE still tripping

[steevo]

supposed to see him on Saturday coming up....... but last time I tried to talk to him, they could care less.....

-- the only things I haven't replaced are :
200 degree high limit switch
ceramic fan temp sensor
combustion/exhaust blower
vacuum switch

at this point the stove will be brand new, LOL.....

 

[Ssyko]

I would go wire by wire and make sure they are like the diagram. Hopefully it didnt do anything to the control board. Does your receipt have a no warranty claim on it?

 

[steevo]

Warranty ended, I can return the control board and swapp out for another.

Will trace wiring tonight

 

[stovelark]

I have actually seen the orange and gray wires reversed on Windsor and Empress stoves before. The usual indication is that the error flashing on the control board is 4 for vacuum and 2 for overtemp while normally a flashing 2 is for vacuum, 3 is for proof of fire and 4 is hi temp. I don't think operationally it would make any difference. I'm not convinced that the stove is a lemon- yet. Steevo- have you been using same fuel all along, otherwise the same fuel before the auger motor was changed? You are sure its not a 2rpm motor? I do think you gave the feed times to be correct right? I want to know how this turns out. Someone told you this Windsor is two years old?? Empresses took the place of windsors in the 2006/7 timeframe. Would you happen to have the sn?? I feel for you- you have some good technical skills too, more than most people. hang in there...

 

[Ssyko]

I have actually seen the orange and gray wires reversed on Windsor and Empress stoves before. The usual indication is that the error flashing on the control board is 4 for vacuum and 2 for overtemp while normally a flashing 2 is for vacuum, 3 is for proof of fire and 4 is hi temp. I don't think operationally it would make any difference. I'm not convinced that the stove is a lemon- yet. Steevo- have you been using same fuel all along, otherwise the same fuel before the auger motor was changed? You are sure its not a 2rpm motor? I do think you gave the feed times to be correct right? I want to know how this turns out. Someone told you this Windsor is two years old?? Empresses took the place of windsors in the 2006/7 timeframe. Would you happen to have the sn?? I feel for you- you have some good technical skills too, more than most people. hang in there...

So Steveos’ error could very likely be a bad high limit switch. But now how does the stove get power if the fan is not running and the high limit is on the wrong circuit? I’m In till the epic conclusion. this is intriguing

 

[stovelark]

I'm not sure its a bad hi limit switch....if something was bad, why no error lights flashing? But I think at this point, I would change out the hi temp switch. I feel bad some dealer did this to him, one couldn't help but wonder what else was done to this poor stove.... I sure hope it gets fixed. I'm waiting for the conclusion too.

 

[steevo]

I just started burning a bag of green Supremes on setting 3, will see how it goes.

I did get a flashing 2 light when it tripped the high level ( forgot about that)

 

[JRemington]

Have you taken the high limit switch off the housing and let it just hang there and see if it still trips?

 

[steevo]

I removed to see if it was damaged or had cap on it, looked fine reinstalled it.

The 1 wire I had to repair is a gray wire that goes to high limit sensor, but sensor is working.

*** so been burning the green Supremes for 2 hours, usually tripped by now, infrared shoiws back of high limit sensor at 165 degrees. Bumped stove up to setting 4 to see what happens.

Maybe removing high limit sensor fixed it or the stove chow is burning extremely nuclear hot.

 

[steevo]

So it lasted on heat setting 4 before tripping high temp limit switch and flashing number 2. The infrared thermometer showed the switch at 185 ish temp, so maybe the 200 switch is bad.


** the stove chow pellets are about half the length of the green supremes....so probably giving stove a hire feed rate as well

 

[stovelark]

So we have a flashing 2?? Normally a flashing 2 is for vacuum, flashing 4 is hi temp flash. I bet if you reverse the orange and gray wires (like I still believe it should be), you will get your flashing 4 for hi temp, a normal enviro error flashing. I too agree with your theory about the feed rate being a little more with the shorter pellets. I think I would change the hi temp as well. I don't remember windsors or empresses with sensitive hi limts. The only time I've seen hi temps were when a convection blower was failing to work. It makes no sense since you have a new blower. Guess it could be a little weak hi temp switch. At this point, I'd change it. Think you are getting close....

 

[steevo]

never seen a flashing number 4, didn't see it listed in the manual at all either. I did order the high temp switch as it wasn't available locally. I also found a new harness on ebay ( for a enviro m55, but harness connector measured out same size and same wires) so I can splice it in at some point seeing my connector was damaged ( repaired, but will replace just in case )

thanks for all the help guys, greatly appreciated, will update some more s the sensor comes in

 

[steevo]

so lets see.......

-- I replaced the high limit switch today, as my new 1 arrived. the old one after I removed it had some rotational movement in it.

-- I was lucky and found a harness on ebay for a different enviro stove but had the same 12 wire connector as mine, so I cut and repaired my harness as the original plastic connector had a whole in it from when the stove shop employee used a wrong self tapping screw.

-- I put my original control panel back in for right now to test the stove

-- the auger motor I had just replaced was a little loud, so the company replaced it and just installed the new "new" auger motor and is a lot quieter.

I will update again, after it runs for a few hours on setting 2 and then setting 3 and so on, and see if it kicks off again

here is a pic of the connector ( the black is factory printing ) ...... morons at the store.....and the owner refuses to see or talk to me on this issue

 

[steevo]

some more updates.........

-- the replacement auger motor the store sent me broke , the motor seized up. So I said screw it and used the auger motor off my spare lennox montage stove and it works perfect and is very quiet.

-- bought some other brand pellets and tried them, could run stove on 3 for quite a long time, but would eventually kick off.

**** decided to add a small duct fan from home depot for the hell of it. I mounted it inside the back frame area pointing upwards, its a 4" fam that has its own plug (broken link removed)
and since using this fan, I can run the stove on 4 all day long for days at a time without kicking the sensor.

so it appears that by adding an additional 80 cfm to blow at the heat exchangers, this appears to fix the problem. I am in contact with the pellet stive store locally who sold me the new factory convection fan I purchased last month, all the numbers check out and the fan runs fine. All I can think of is that the original fan is just not 100% powerful enough for the stove.

its possible that seeing my stove is dated 2002, that enviro may have upgraded a more powerful convection fan to the newer models and they never had an issue. It sucks because even when I search for the manuals for the Windsor stove, they are date 2004, 2007 but I cant quite find a manual for the early 2002 stoves...... but I did find a company who sells these convection fans but size and cfm, so I will probably return the fan I bought and custom order a fan that is the same size to fit in the fan bracket/metal box with 100 cfm higher rating.........

 

[Ssyko]

What your doing is cooling the high temp switch from the back side of the stove. The added fan is just blowing into the back of the stove not the exchangers. Although it works its still a grey area for safety. Stove could still over fire and ignite other things.

 

[steevo]

its not pointed at the high temp switch, its pointed exactly where the convection fan is blowing ( in the direction of the heat exchangers) .

the convection fan is under the stove in the back blowing up in the direction of the heat exchangers.

 

[Don2222]

Hello
What I do is just get rid of that 200 Deg F hi limit switch and put in a 250 High Limit Switch like most other stoves have. Enviro specs theirs at 200 Deg F Which is ok when the stovesare brand new but when they get older they trip! If you put in a 250 then problem solved and if the stove really overheats it will still shut down for safety

 

[Watcher1]

Don 2222, I like your idea of the 250 temp thing, but, I go back to looking at his flame picture. That is a big fire for 2 or 3. Is there a damper on these? Might be he could adjust that some.

 

[stovelark]

Would highly advise against putting a "bigger fuse in" to alleviate the issue. Something is not right with that stove, maybe something is not allowing proper air flow through the heat exchanger?? I know the Windsors had their peculiarities, but you should not or should not have to change its operating parameters. Does the convection blower blow physically straight into the exchanger housing, is it aligned properly? All in all, if the stove is feeding properly, then the issue still has to be in the convection blower, is the right voltages getting delivered to it, per the ordered heat level? I know its a pain to check, but might be worth checking it..

 

[steevo]

the convection blower mounts only 1 way, tested to factory specs and is working correctly. if you read back a few, the bigger flame was caused by the stow chow pellets being very small and over feeding.

I will take a pic of the stove open on the sides to show how the blower mounts as well as how it blows the air towards the heat exchangers. the heat exchangers are not clogged, just seems after testing everything, that the convection fan is just nt big enough or powerful enough for the stove. Maybe on the newer windsors they fixed the issue...not sure.

I'm not going to change the high temp sensor to a higher temp one, but well see as time goes on....

 

[stovelark]

Ok steevo, understand how its mounted and of the fact that early Windsors (and later Empress FS too), the convection blower does seem rather anemic in its airflow, but was designed that way to be quiet (the mini is the same way). Its just unusual that occasionally a stove comes out and gets this weird problem that you have. I commend you for being open and persistent about fixing it. You'll find it, when you do, let us know.. Take care.

 

[steevo]

thanks, I appreciate all the ideas and help.......

 

[Don2222]

Ok steevo, understand how its mounted and of the fact that early Windsors (and later Empress FS too), the convection blower does seem rather anemic in its airflow, but was designed that way to be quiet (the mini is the same way). Its just unusual that occasionally a stove comes out and gets this weird problem that you have. I commend you for being open and persistent about fixing it. You'll find it, when you do, let us know.. Take care.

The design should have included bumping up the hi limit switch to 225 or 250 trip Point. I have learned that on some of these stoves, the engineers do not always get it right. Will a 250 still trip if there is a safety issue? It does on all the other stoves.
Heck, I am still waiting for many of the stove manufacturers including Enviro to use the permantly lubricated Nylatron auger bearing that Doctor Whitfield invented strictly for use in his pellet stoves many years ago! He started off at first with the oilite bronze bearing that Enviros have and then Sent put a bulliten to all his dealers to change them to the Nylatron before any more stoves were sold! What a great move!!
History can teach us a good lesson but does not always keep us from making the same mistakes
Good Luck.

 

[stovelark]

Don- I hear you and if you can persuade the MFR to listen and adopt a suggested change, more power to it. But going and changing someone else's design without their concurrence is just too much asking for an issue. I do enjoy your contributions, I just can't go along changing things and suggesting others do it too, even if it sounds reasonable to do so... But I do like your enthusiasm and always wanting to make things better. Take care.

 

[Don2222]

Don- I hear you and if you can persuade the MFR to listen and adopt a suggested change, more power to it. But going and changing someone else's design without their concurrence is just too much asking for an issue. I do enjoy your contributions, I just can't go along changing things and suggesting others do it too, even if it sounds reasonable to do so... But I do like your enthusiasm and always wanting to make things better. Take care.

I agree, it is up to the owner to make the change like some people do their own electrical work on their houses. I just wanted to put the info out their to resolve this problem. The manufacturer in this case would rather redesign the stove rather than make this simple change. What about all the existing stoves with this problem? Seeing most other manufacturers have done this simple change, I just cannot agree with this manufacturer’s reasoning here. They may loose a lot of stove sales this way because the redesigned stoves do not heat as well as the old stoves, and have a lot of unhappy customers with these older stoves, but that is their perogative! Just a very sad and extremely frustrating situation