Enviro Windsor, does anyone have a PDF to the original brochure?

[VCBurner]

I'd be sure to check the pipe for ash collecting on a regular basis.

Good idea, I had thought about putting an access hatch into the block off wall.

You will still need a way to clean out the horizontal. ideally this needs to be done without taking the pipe apart.

Clean out T on the outside work?
Otherwise I'll take the elbow off from the outside and stick a brush and vac hose in the pipe.
What would you recommend?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'd be sure to check the pipe for ash collecting on a regular basis.

Good idea, I had thought about putting an access hatch into the block off wall.

You will still need a way to clean out the horizontal. ideally this needs to be done without taking the pipe apart.

Clean out T on the outside work?
Otherwise I'll take the elbow off from the outside and stick a brush and vac hose in the pipe.
What would you recommend?

A double might be better, it is hard to get the horizontal with the "standard" T.

I don't have any issues getting to my horizontal because at the stove after the adapter is my T so there is just a very short length which I get from either the inside by removing the combustion blower or from the outside by means of a leaf vacuum (ye old leaf blower trick). The short horizontal that goes through the wall is a piece of cake from the outside.

I try to avoid uncapping the T because it is a pain in the hind quarters to get back together.

If you have decent vent pipe, removing the 90 degree elbow might not be a problem. While you must have smoke tight joints inside the house, outside it can be a different matter (even there due to possibly operating at vent limits it is best they be smoke tight all the way to the termination).

Your call, I'm old, the bending, standing on the head, and body contortions just doesn't work like it used to ;-).

 

[VCBurner]

A double might be better, it is hard to get the horizontal with the "standard" T.

I'm not familiar with a double. I'll have to look it up. If you have an image could you send it to me?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

A double might be better, it is hard to get the horizontal with the "standard" T.

I'm not familiar with a double. I'll have to look it up. If you have an image could you send it to me?

You have a PM ....

 

[jtakeman]

I love my double tee. I can clean the pipe going outside and what is connected to the stove without removing and resealing pipes. A little tape on the tee caps and I am back in business. Worth the $160 and change IMHO.

 

[VCBurner]

Thanks Smokey for the PM!

Thanks J for the immage.

I went to the dealer and he was unloading a load of pellets so he didn't have a lot of time to talk. I find it funny that he was closed on Monday and Tuesday and was not available when I got there this morning. I understand as a small business owner he does not have a ton of $ to play with additional payroll but man! It makes you feel like your business is not necessary when you are there to look up things you may need and the owner doesn't have time for you despite being on the premises.

He was not aware of a double T clean out, nor was he helpful with the particulars of the Windsor which is only 8 years old and has been replaced by the Empress model which he sells. I was not really surprised. Disappointed maybe, it would be good to establish a relationship with the dealer of your brand stove who is located 15 minutes away from your home. I may return there for some things. He did say he would order me a piece of glass from his glass dealer for a lower price than Enviro wants ($180,) I told him I could get it myself for $90 off the internet so he'd have to beat or at least come really close to that.
Anyone have a connection for glass?

 

[VCBurner]

Ok so the pipes i had are Simpson, 3" sections. I bought $180 worth of pipe for the outside from the dealer. What i purchased was a 5' section, two 45's (he was out of 90's), wall bracket and an appliance adaptor. These were purchased in addition to the 3', 1' and slip pipe I had. I thought it was a pretty good deal? He gave me about 10% discount from his prices. He was very helpful with the pipes. The 2" conduit for the air intake is also here, as well as firecode plywood, durock, mortar, tyle and grout. I'll post pics as soon as the instal is under way.

I did not purchase the double T with its $180cost it was just more than I could spend right now. We also purchased the tyle and grout last night.

So far I've spent $900 on the stove, $210 in hearth and vent related material. I'm into it $1110 this season. Not a bad deal for a stove nearly 10 feet of simpson 3" pellet pipe with adaptor, termination cap, thimble, a 90 and two 45's. Tube of silicone, mortar caulking, tyle, firecode plywood, durock and 5' of 2" conduit.

The best price I could find for the 18.5" x 13.5" x 5mm glass was just over $90 on line. The dealer is going to see how much he can get it for. Please feel free if anyone has a good connection for stove glass.

Sorry, the pics were last minute and one is on the side leaves, I mean lawn and the other is infront of the side door of the house. Just so you could see the pipes and vent material. I'll post some more pics during the installation process.

 

[jtakeman]

If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.

 

[raybonz]

Ok so the pipes i had are Simpson, 3" sections. I bought $180 worth of pipe for the outside from the dealer. What i purchased was a 5' section, two 45's (he was out of 90's), wall bracket and an appliance adaptor. These were purchased in addition to the 3', 1' and slip pipe I had. I thought it was a pretty good deal? He gave me about 10% discount from his prices. He was very helpful with the pipes. The 2" conduit for the air intake is also here, as well as firecode plywood, durock, mortar, tyle and grout. I'll post pics as soon as the instal is under way.

I did not purchase the double T with its $180cost it was just more than I could spend right now. We also purchased the tyle and grout last night.

So far I've spent $900 on the stove, $210 in hearth and vent related material. I'm into it $1110 this season. Not a bad deal for a stove nearly 10 feet of simpson 3" pellet pipe with adaptor, termination cap, thimble, a 90 and two 45's. Tube of silicone, mortar caulking, tyle, firecode plywood, durock and 5' of 2" conduit.

The best price I could find for the 18.5" x 13.5" x 5mm glass was just over $90 on line. The dealer is going to see how much he can get it for. Please feel free if anyone has a good connection for stove glass.

Sorry, the pics were last minute and one is on the side leaves, I mean lawn and the other is infront of the side door of the house. Just so you could see the pipes and vent material. I'll post some more pics during the installation process.

Good pics Chris! So what's the final verdict venting through 2 walls to the outside? I didn't see the final answer if was OK to do or not..

Ray

 

[imacman]

If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.

I agree.

 

[DexterDay]

If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.

I agree.

Yep. Less internal seams also means less restriction for the gases/fly ash. Its a lot of horizontal, the vertical may help a little, by creating some natural draft. Which is better than just the straight shot. Definitely make sure you clean the vent often. As fly ash will quickly build up in there. While you are spending the money, I would buy a leaf blower (leaf vacuum) and clean the stove before you even fire it. I know Forum member Enviro (previous owner) prob kept it well cleaned. But I would do it, for 2 reasons. It will give you some practice and let you know the ins and outs of the unit and also give you the peace of mind, that it is all cleaned up and all the motors have been blown off, lubed, and squirrel cages and combustion blower fins are all ready for the season..

I see you already have the "Bug" for the stove.. Pellet stoves can be very enjoyable. If kept maintained properly. If not, it will be like burning fresh cut OAK in a modern EPA woodstove. You will have terrible results.

As you have burned for several years, I can only imagine that you already know , all to well, that if you take care of it, it will yake care of you...

Congrats again on your stove, and now your venting, and soon to be Hearth.

Wont be long now......

 

[VCBurner]

If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.

I thought about that, but I needed a slip pipe in the horizontal in order to make the distance work with the least amount of horizontal length. I needed 51 inches from back of stove to outside of house. The pipe has to be 3" from the house. Total horizontal from back of stove to outside of vertical run pipe (side closest to the house)= 54 inches, including part of the 90. The horizontal run is actually made up of this: adaptor, one foot piece, three foot piece, slip pipe then the 90. It just looks like different colors because a part of the three foot pipe used to be on the outside of a house so it actually looks like three different colors: one that was exposed inside the house,one was inside the thimble the other part of it was exposed to the weather. I wanted to buy a 4' piece to put inside the house but the dealer didn't have any 4' sections. So I kept the used 3' and 1' sec. inside as well as the used slip pipe. Did I talk myself in circles and confuse everyone yet? :roll: I confused myself! LOL!

If I switch the 5 foot piece to the inside I'll actually gain about 10 inches in horizontal run it would be 63 inches as opposed to 54. from back of stove to side of vertical pipe, including the bend of the elbow.


I'll take some more pictures of the sections of pipe separately so everyone can see more clearly what's really going on. I might repaint the interior pipes so that they look new. Although only 3" of it will actually be exposed to the living space. The outdoor pipe may stay silver, unless i can find some high temp paint in the color of the house so it blends in more.

 

[VCBurner]

Good pics Chris! So what's the final verdict venting through 2 walls to the outside? I didn't see the final answer if was OK to do or not..

Ray

Yep! It was 4 feet max according to J-takeman's reply. So I ended up with a few inches of extra horizontal with 50" from back of stove to outside of exterior wall. Adding a 90 on the outside and a 5 foot piece of vertical pipe should help with the natural draft. It was on the manual that some installations would do better with this vert. run. I figured mine would fall into that category with the long horizontal. Thanks for following this thread Ray, good to see some of the woodies from the hearth room venture out of the box. I'll have to check out your profile for recent pics of the new T-5. Sweet looking stoves!

I've got my work cut out, for the next couple of days, if I want to see this thing in action this weekend. Hearth pad first. Then while the mortar is drying I'll do the pipes then the grout. I figure sometime on Sunday I'll be able to have a finished product. Too bad we have three soccer games, a soccer clinic and spring try outs on Sunday. It'll be nice to get home and set it up. It'll probably be Monday before I see flames :long:

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Take your time Chris, no need to hurry, no major cold spell coming (yet).

 

[jtakeman]

If it were me, I would use the single unjointed piece on the inside. Less seems to leak. Put the other length that looks like 1 foot pieces on the outside.

I thought about that, but I needed a slip pipe in the horizontal in order to make the distance work with the least amount of horizontal length. I needed 51 inches from back of stove to outside of house. The pipe has to be 3" from the house. Total horizontal from back of stove to outside of vertical run pipe (side closest to the house)= 54 inches, including part of the 90. The horizontal run is actually made up of this: adaptor, one foot piece, three foot piece, slip pipe then the 90. It just looks like different colors because a part of the three foot pipe used to be on the outside of a house so it actually looks like three different colors: one that was exposed inside the house,one was inside the thimble the other part of it was exposed to the weather. I wanted to buy a 4' piece to put inside the house but the dealer didn't have any 4' sections. So I kept the used 3' and 1' sec. inside as well as the used slip pipe. Did I talk myself in circles and confuse everyone yet? :roll: I confused myself! LOL!

If I switch the 5 foot piece to the inside I'll actually gain about 10 inches in horizontal run it would be 63 inches as opposed to 54. from back of stove to side of vertical pipe, including the bend of the elbow.


I'll take some more pictures of the sections of pipe separately so everyone can see more clearly what's really going on. I might repaint the interior pipes so that they look new. Although only 3" of it will actually be exposed to the living space. The outdoor pipe may stay silver, unless i can find some high temp paint in the color of the house so it blends in more.

I know your splitting inches and trying to stay with as little horizontal as possible. One thing is you don't want any joints inside the thimble. So You can't use part of the 90º elbow. Maybe grab a 6" piece to be sure that doesn't happen. and still have less joints in the house. Still also need another thimble for the second wall the pipe passes thru.

Seeing your EVL is already at 17.5 whats another 1.25 added?

 

[VCBurner]

Take your time Chris, no need to hurry, no major cold spell coming (yet).

I hear you Smokey, we've been lucky thus far. It's just the pyro in me that wants to see the flames going. At least I know everything is ready to be put in. I wont rest until I see my coffee cup sitting on top of it staying warm! :lol:

 

[VCBurner]

I know your splitting inches and trying to stay with as little horizontal as possible. One thing is you don't want any joints inside the thimble. So You can't use part of the 90º elbow. Maybe grab a 6" piece to be sure that doesn't happen. and still have less joints in the house. Still also need another thimble for the second wall the pipe passes through.

Seeing your EVL is already at 17.5 whats another 1.25 added?

J, what are those numbers 17.5 and what's an EVL? Forgive my ignorance. The slip pipe will actually be going through the thimble I need a bit of it to be sticking outside in order to have the 3" from outside of house to vertical pipe. No seams inside the thimble. I'm cutting out a section of the single layer of drywall that makes the closet wall and replacing it with a slab of 1/4" slate. The wife didn't like the slate for a hearth so we bought some ceramic tyle (sandstone color.) Now the slate will serve as a fireproof backdrop to the stove. I'll cut out a whole into the slate for the pipe to go through, then slide a collar over the pipe and sit it on the slate rear wall!

 

[jtakeman]

EVL = Equivalent Vent Length

Every piece of pipe has a rating:
1 Ft. horizontal = 1
1 Ft. Vertical = .5
45 degree bend = 2.5
90 degree = 5

On 3†pipe, anything that adds up to more than 15 EVL needs to be increased to 4†pipe, up to a max of about 33.


I think this is why Enviro suggests 4 feet of Horz. Once you start adding tee's and elbows its easy to go higher than excepted. Maybe rethink this and go with 4 inch vent(I think smokey said it first). 17.5 is probably going to give lazy burns and require frequently cleaning of the flue.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

EVL = Equivalent Vent Length

Every piece of pipe has a rating:
1 Ft. horizontal = 1
1 Ft. Vertical = .5
45 degree bend = 2.5
90 degree = 5

On 3†pipe, anything that adds up to more than 15 EVL needs to be increased to 4†pipe, up to a max of about 33.


I think this is why Enviro suggests 4 feet of Horz. Once you start adding tee's and elbows its easy to go higher than excepted. Maybe rethink this and go with 4 inch vent(I think smokey said it first). 17.5 is probably going to give lazy burns and require frequently cleaning of the flue.

I have a nose for limits, sometimes you can get away with a bit of excess sometimes you can't. It will depend upon the strength of that Enviro combustion blower.

 

[jtakeman]

EVL = Equivalent Vent Length

Every piece of pipe has a rating:
1 Ft. horizontal = 1
1 Ft. Vertical = .5
45 degree bend = 2.5
90 degree = 5

On 3†pipe, anything that adds up to more than 15 EVL needs to be increased to 4†pipe, up to a max of about 33.


I think this is why Enviro suggests 4 feet of Horz. Once you start adding tee's and elbows its easy to go higher than excepted. Maybe rethink this and go with 4 inch vent(I think smokey said it first). 17.5 is probably going to give lazy burns and require frequently cleaning of the flue.

I have a nose for limits, sometimes you can get away with a bit of excess sometimes you can't. It will depend upon the strength of that Enviro combustion blower.

75 to 80 CFM. is probably max on it. Knowing first hand an empress(newer version of the windsor) struggled with 17. I'm very nervous he'll have problems! You know me bear, I usually site back unless I see something I feel uneasy with.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'd try a straight out run, OAK it which he is and give it the smoke test. If it flies he's good to go, just watch the clearance to doors, and the vegetation.

ETA: I am not a fan of this manner of venting but when push comes to shove if it works it works.

 

[smoke show]

I'd try a straight out run, OAK it which he is and give it the smoke test.

I agree why increase EVL if not needed.
horizontal vents can work fine.

 

[VCBurner]

I'd try a straight out run, OAK it which he is and give it the smoke test. If it flies he's good to go, just watch the clearance to doors, and the vegetation.

ETA: I am not a fan of this manner of venting but when push comes to shove if it works it works.

So if that's the case, then I had enough to vent straight out in the first place. :lol: If I knew you guys felt this way I wouldn't have spent the $180 on the pipes yesterday. . If that works, I'll go back and return the pipes and grab a ton of his pellets instead.

I thought the straight run would really help! It sounds more like it'll become a hinderance. Increasing EVL thus increasing the difficulty of pushing the exhaust out does not sound like a good idea.

 

[jtakeman]

Look at it this way, We got you a 1 piece "no joint" leak reducer.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'd try a straight out run, OAK it which he is and give it the smoke test. If it flies he's good to go, just watch the clearance to doors, and the vegetation.

ETA: I am not a fan of this manner of venting but when push comes to shove if it works it works.

So if that's the case, then I had enough to vent straight out in the first place. :lol: If I knew you guys felt this way I wouldn't have spent the $180 on the pipes yesterday. . If that works, I'll go back and return the pipes and grab a ton of his pellets instead.

I thought the straight run would really help! It sounds more like it'll become a hinderance. Increasing EVL thus increasing the difficulty of pushing the exhaust out does not sound like a good idea.

Now don't go getting all excited, you have to check your clearances on the straight run first, you may not have the required clearance to that door, I can't tell from the picture. Even then things may not work, you are just over the limit on horizontal pipe.

The addition of vertical pipe is to setup a natural draft to handle power outages (that is the smoke test I was referring to, at least you are OAKing the stove, the smoke test saying goes if it smokes you must OAK, I hope Eviro's OAK setup is is a good one). If the addition puts you over limit then you use 4" starting at the stove.