EKO 60 Online & Full of Problems

[HeatFarmer]

Cant you heat your slab up before your storage ?

I wish I could!! I should have plumbed it that way..... unfortunately the slabs are plumbed on the return line to the boiler...in the boiler room, far from storage....It will be fine once I get the system warmed up to functional temp....or so I keep telling myself that.

 

[HeatFarmer]

Boy it sounds like air to me.

In my system I put in three manual bleed points, one above the oil boiler, one above the wood boiler and one above my coil. What I found was the one above the coil worked really well for getting the extra air out. I took a 5 gallon bucket with a few inches of water in it and a short length of hose and left the valve just cracked a hair, then got the water moving. With the water in the bucket you could see the system burp and by keeping the hose under water I hoped it would keep air from getting sucked back in. After a while it was just tiny bubbles and then nothing. I let the bleeder on my scoop take over once I got to that point.

Not sure if this is the "correct" way to do it but it worked for me. I had to fight being air bound once when I drained my oil boiler to put in the Tees to plumb up the wood boiler. It was a pain, had to manually bleed it a few times.

The auto bleeders on the scoop aren't always perfect either. Mine like to stick.

BTW, I'm in Liberty and I'm using one of Tom's 820 gallon tanks. With no load (ie a warm house, something that's been pretty common this winter) one firebox load on my Tarm Innova 30 will put about 40 deg. in the tank. I really like this setup. The only issue I've had is sealing the top of the tank. Tom's been giving me ideas and I've pulled the top and resealed everything once. I'm hopping I got it this time...

K

I have several bleeders and 2 air scoops. I just have such a large weird system that it ate a lot of air filling it up. Tom recommend I leave the top off the tank until I have it up to temp--if I recall correctly--so I have. Right now I have a tank of 115º steaming water down in my 40º cellar.... I will get the top on the tank as soon as it's warmer and I get some more pipes insulated......

Where in Liberty? I live just over the line, up 220N across from rt3.....Red farmhouse on ridge. We should get together sometime & compare systems.....

 

[Franzen105]

Is the Danfoss Correct??

 

[kopeck]

I have several bleeders and 2 air scoops. I just have such a large weird system that it ate a lot of air filling it up. Tom recommend I leave the top off the tank until I have it up to temp--if I recall correctly--so I have. Right now I have a tank of 115º steaming water down in my 40º cellar.... I will get the top on the tank as soon as it's warmer and I get some more pipes insulated......

Where in Liberty? I live just over the line, up 220N across from rt3.....Red farmhouse on ridge. We should get together sometime & compare systems.....

Boy, you've got one heck of a humidifier going right now! I really hope you have better luck then I do, I've been fighting it since the first time I fired it up back in December. I did the last reseal on Thursday, it seems like there's less water on the floor today, I hope it's a trend that continues. Tom's been very good through the whole thing, I've been bugging him pretty relentlessly. I'm just particular and this is the last big issue I have to work through.

Do you know where the old Agway was in So. Liberty?

K

 

[huffdawg]

Cant you heat your slab up before your storage ?

I wish I could!! I should have plumbed it that way..... unfortunately the slabs are plumbed on the return line to the boiler...in the boiler room, far from storage....It will be fine once I get the system warmed up to functional temp....or so I keep telling myself that.

You still can, you could put a bypass before your storage. But I think many choose to install their infloor last on the loop its the lowest temp load.

 

[HeatFarmer]

You still can, you could put a bypass before your storage. But I think many choose to install their infloor last on the loop its the lowest temp load.

That's sort of why I chose to place it there....also because I wanted to be able to draw heat out of storage for the slab..... I may have to take it off line for the winter or until warmer weather because things are a bit froze up at the moment.....

 

[maple1]

Froze up?

I hope not as bad as that might sound?

 

[Clarkbug]

I agree, froze up sounds really bad.

I know you said you had ice on the floor, did something else happen today that shut down your heating operation?

 

[rkusek]

Well maybe with some luck your system will be nice and warm in the morning. Do your circ pumps have hose bibs on both sides . it does make it easier to bleed air out and prime your pumps .

...duh....wish I'd thought of that My system is short on purge points. I may have to fix that when it's warmer......

I've changed my plumbing a couple times and added purge points each time. Makes a world of difference refilling. You might get by loosening your pump flanges a little and using a big screwdriver to break the seal and release any air at the pumps. If I had to do over I would have sprung for the Wellstone flanges with the built in bleeders. I think your problem is a air pocket at the pumps since it sounds like you have no circulation. I would turn the dial on your EKO controller down to 175-180 for now until you get water circulating to storage and your loads, less likely to overheat when it goes to idle since it will "creep" up several degrees especially if you are not taking any heat away from it.

EDIT: Sounds like you got the air pockets out and your storage is getting warm. Some times this stuff can be a PITA! Hang in there.

 

[tom in maine]

Looking at the schematic, you are not quite operating a primary/secondary system since the tank is plumbed into the secondary loop.
This will not allow you to isolate the tank and get heat moving just into the house and slab.

Not the end of the world, but the tank loop should be plumbed as a primary loop with its own circulator and isolation valves with close coupled tees.
Since you have heat going into it, get the cover on and let the system heat up.

Give me a call if I can help.

 

[tom in maine]

You still can, you could put a bypass before your storage. But I think many choose to install their infloor last on the loop its the lowest temp load.

That's sort of why I chose to place it there....also because I wanted to be able to draw heat out of storage for the slab..... I may have to take it off line for the winter or until warmer weather because things are a bit froze up at the moment.....

Keep the boiler room closed off from outdoors and the heat from the boiler should help thaw the floor.

 

[HeatFarmer]

Looking at the schematic, you are not quite operating a primary/secondary system since the tank is plumbed into the secondary loop.
This will not allow you to isolate the tank and get heat moving just into the house and slab.

Not the end of the world, but the tank loop should be plumbed as a primary loop with its own circulator and isolation valves with close coupled tees.
Since you have heat going into it, get the cover on and let the system heat up.

Give me a call if I can help.

Ah...the diagram is wrong....taking your advice, the storage is on it's own loop via tees.....with shut offs, but only at the pump at the moment.....sometime in the distant future I will add some more valves.

 

[HeatFarmer]

You still can, you could put a bypass before your storage. But I think many choose to install their infloor last on the loop its the lowest temp load.

That's sort of why I chose to place it there....also because I wanted to be able to draw heat out of storage for the slab..... I may have to take it off line for the winter or until warmer weather because things are a bit froze up at the moment.....

Keep the boiler room closed off from outdoors and the heat from the boiler should help thaw the floor.

The amazing thing about the boiler is it is throwing off almost NO heat!! I am only reading 230 stack temp close to the flue outlet and the boiler is going full tilt & gasifying well. I thought the boiler would keep the room warmer, but it doesn't appear to be throwing off that much heat. Once I insulate the pipework better, there will be even less heat coming into the room.

All that being said, I DO have to seal off the boiler area. My wood loading door needs to be rebuilt and sealed off better as there is a frigid north wind slicing right through the cracks now.

 

[HeatFarmer]

I agree, froze up sounds really bad.

I know you said you had ice on the floor, did something else happen today that shut down your heating operation?

My big problem was getting too excited about getting the system going...... BEWARE! I SHOULD have shut off the slab loops until the system was up to temp and then filled the lines and purged that loop separately..... By the time all the air was worked out and the system was running...about 3 hours....the ice cold slab and the minus temps had frozen the unheated slab loops....in fact, I may never have gotten water very far into the slab because it was so cold. I did burst a copper 90º which I fixed, but then I decided to break down the slab loop and drain the above ground portion until a thaw could happen..... Hopefully the PEX will handle the expansion and all will be fine.

The ice is everywhere because it is SO cold in the boiler room--even with the boiler going full bore--that water from purging air and spillage and leaks freezes almost immediately. It's pretty interesting to see an icicle hanging from a drip off of a 190º pipe...... Still plenty of ice this AM, but leaks & drips are getting fixed and the system is running like a clock right now.

Storage has crept up to 180 at the top and 174 at the bottom. Panel Radiator loops are heating the house and the boiler is gasifying with temps around 190........

Onwards to insulating more pex under the floor and tightening up some more leaks......

 

[goosegunner]

I would insulate the boiler room first, one little hiccup that makes you shut down and you could have major damage. Yo u must have some major air infiltration if the air is cold enough to freeze water on the pipes.

You wouldn't want to grab on to the uninsulated pipes in my boiler room. It is 80+ in there after a 4 hour burn. 12X16 insulated dry walled building with good window and door.

Can you get any other heat in the building?

gg

 

[maple1]

Maybe a couple of salamanders for a little while?

 

[mikefrommaine]

It is supposed to be about 30 - 40 degrees warmer tonight than it has been.

Might even get above freezing tomorrow. :cheese:

 

[HeatFarmer]

It is supposed to be about 30 - 40 degrees warmer tonight than it has been.

Might even get above freezing tomorrow. :cheese:

Hurrah! I'm counting on it so I can drain some lines & fix a couple of pressure-losing leaks....

 

[HeatFarmer]

Well... so far so good....as it goes.....

Storage has been holding a steady 182-5º for most of the afternoon, with the boiler hovering at 190+. I spent the day insulating pex & supply lines more to see if the cold was keeping storage from getting hotter. I managed to fix a few leaks, but when I recharged the system with some fresh water to make up from the leaks I forced a few more leaks from where they were hiding......Still, I am so glad I went copper and not black iron.


I'm going to see where storage is in the AM, without reloading the boiler tonight. The panel rads are drawing water off at 160 and returning it at 140. DHW is coming off at 100, and there have been showers. This morning the boiler was reading "Fuel", but the pump was running because the water was above 170. Storage was at 177. I am hoping the boiler circ pump will kick off tonight so I'm not robbing heat from storage and the panel rad loop.

Hopefully tomorrow some more 1/2" pex comes and I can get my final, largest panel rad online. I am hoping by insulating the longest legs I can shave off some heat to the rads and still get the warmth in the house.....

The propane forced air system is off & the on-demand DHW is off.....propane tanks are at 65%....We do most of our cooking on the wood cookstove. I'd like to see those tanks stay there until April or so and we switch back to cooking on the kitchen range.....

 

[mikefrommaine]

The propane forced air system is off & the on-demand DHW is off.....propane tanks are at 65%....We do most of our cooking on the wood cookstove. I'd like to see those tanks stay there until April or so and we switch back to cooking on the kitchen range.....

I hear you, not writing a check for oil or propane is priceless.

I just filled up my oil tanks for the last time in a while -- haven't burned a bit of oil in since my boiler went online,

 

[huffdawg]

Good to hear, sounds like you have been putting in some long days and lots of hard work. pays off n the end. Some thing to be said for doing this kind of project in the warmer months.

Keep it up and get er dun.

 

[kopeck]

Keep after it. Solve one problem at a time and just keep checking off the list.

I find I get in trouble when I try to fix two or three at one time.

K

 

[taxidermist]

[

This morning the boiler was reading "Fuel", but the pump was running because the water was above 170. Storage was at 177. I am hoping the boiler circ pump will kick off tonight so I'm not robbing heat from storage and the panel rad loop.

This is one of the bad things with this boiler! You can only turn the pump off at 170* but storage is 180*+ so the boiler circulates from storage to a cold boiler back to storage until you hit 170. I try to build my fires now so before bed my boiler is out storage is 180* and I shut the boiler off. You just have to be careful that your boiler is cool enough so it does not over heat,


Rob

 

[huffdawg]

[

This morning the boiler was reading "Fuel", but the pump was running because the water was above 170. Storage was at 177. I am hoping the boiler circ pump will kick off tonight so I'm not robbing heat from storage and the panel rad loop.

This is one of the bad things with this boiler! You can only turn the pump off at 170* but storage is 180*+ so the boiler circulates from storage to a cold boiler back to storage until you hit 170. I try to build my fires now so before bed my boiler is out storage is 180* and I shut the boiler off. You just have to be careful that your boiler is cool enough so it does not over heat,


Rob

You have your pump launch set at 170 Rob . mine was at the factory default setting but I raised it to 160 . I probobly blow a few btu's up the chimney because of that too.

 

[taxidermist]

[

This morning the boiler was reading "Fuel", but the pump was running because the water was above 170. Storage was at 177. I am hoping the boiler circ pump will kick off tonight so I'm not robbing heat from storage and the panel rad loop.

This is one of the bad things with this boiler! You can only turn the pump off at 170* but storage is 180*+ so the boiler circulates from storage to a cold boiler back to storage until you hit 170. I try to build my fires now so before bed my boiler is out storage is 180* and I shut the boiler off. You just have to be careful that your boiler is cool enough so it does not over heat,


Rob

You have your pump launch set at 170 Rob . mine was at the factory default setting but I raised it to 160 . I probobly blow a few btu's up the chimney because of that too.

I launch at 165* when it is burning I change it to 170*.... I also move the fan to 50% after the first load of wood is burned and have a nice bed of coals.