Efficiency of non EPA furnace

[Highbeam]

Just FYI, if you are going to put cement board or sheet metal (whatever) up for a heat shield, then there must be an air gap behind it...and the top and bottom have to be open or vented in a way that will allow air to circulate behind (the ole hot air rises routine) without the air gap the heat can be transferred to the surface behind it pretty easily.

Not really and not in this context. Your foam, if covered with durock, is the first combustible surface. You measure your clearance to combustibles from the foam even if it is covered with 5" of durock. You can cover the foam with sheetrock as well but then the first combustible surface is the paper on the sheetrock.

The only time you need an air gap is if you are trying to build an NFPA wall shield for a clearance reduction which is not applicable to a modern appliance with specified clearances to combustibles.

 

[Lcback]

Well. I was planning on following all clearances and just putting the cement board over top as some extra precaution

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[brenndatomu]

Not really and not in this context. Your foam, if covered with durock, is the first combustible surface. You measure your clearance to combustibles from the foam even if it is covered with 5" of durock. You can cover the foam with sheetrock as well but then the first combustible surface is the paper on the sheetrock.

The only time you need an air gap is if you are trying to build an NFPA wall shield for a clearance reduction which is not applicable to a modern appliance with specified clearances to combustibles.

Well. I was planning on following all clearances and just putting the cement board over top as some extra precaution

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So the foam is already beyond the "clearance" needed for combustibles? I guess I thought the durock was for additional heat protection...and you really gain very little "protection" without air gap. I guess it could stop an errant spark that would tend to bounce right off durock, foam, maybe not so much.
As far as NFPA clearance reduction, as I understand it, if the manual states that clearance reduction is allowed with NFPA heat shielding, then it can still be done. Fire Marshall/insurance co. will generally defer to the product owners manual.

 

[Lcback]

Interesting. I may try to do a shield. Maybe post pictures when I'm ready and get some ideas

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[Lcback]

Man. There is always a decision.
Just when I think I've got it made.
I find out about a brand I never heard of.
DS Stove Ecomiser
74% epa rated can burn wood, bit, and Anthricite coal. For $1900
Now. The pros and cons.
Pro: square box for coal, air can be all underneath or all top. Pretty simple design as far as I can tell, full size ash pan.
Cons: no forced air or option for it, the blower is one speed and it's half the Shelter. No thermostat or electronics besides the on off for the blower.

What do you guys think if you can look one up. The coal guys on nepa cross roads say the ecomiser is better and the only real choice. I worry though it's only rated for 2500 sqft. And my house including basement is about 3,000

my draft has never been fantastic, something a forced air blower helps with getting the flue nice and hot quickly.
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[bholler]

my draft has never been fantastic, something a forced air blower helps with getting the flue nice and hot quickly.

What type and size chimney is it going into? Fix the draft issues first no stove will work right with poor draft even one with forced combustion. That is how you get coal gas explosions or co leakage into the house with bit coal btw.

 

[Lcback]

It's a 6" triple wall stainless. 2 45's into a the wall thimble in the basement. A t from the thimble and then straight up.

Until joining this forum I never knew about checking the draft. And then the burning season was over. So was it a crap furnace that wouldn't seal well. A basement that is very tight, or just poor burning practices at this point I'm not sure. But if I open the damper now you can feel air coming down the chimney and into the house.
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[leon]

It's a 6" triple wall stainless. 2 45's into a the wall thimble in the basement. A t from the thimble and then straight up.

Until joining this forum I never knew about checking the draft. And then the burning season was over. So was it a crap furnace that wouldn't seal well. A basement that is very tight, or just poor burning practices at this point I'm not sure. But if I open the damper now you can feel air coming down the chimney and into the house.
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Do you have a automatic barometric damper in the T????
If you have air coming back down the chimney you have a down draft and that is a big no no.
You need a chimney extension/chimney pot to add height to the chimney and or install an air supply for the furnace- a dryer vent in reverse with the flap and screen inside is the best way.

 

[Lcback]

There is no baro right now. Will be with the next install.
Is supply air to the furnace and adding height the the chimney. An either or. Or a both at the same time?

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[maple1]

A barometric damper is meant to limit draft. So I don't think it will do anything for your draft situation.

You also didn't say how high it was. Or relationship to the rooftop & surrounding area. A pic might help there.

 

[Lcback]

I can't take a picture until later. It is 3 ft above the roof.
Comes out what was a basement window even with the ground and then 90's straight up and through the overhang.
18'

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[leon]

If you do anything, first purchase a stainless steel chimney
extension for your chimney from Rockford Chimney supply
they have a chimney cap with a spark screen as part of its
design and construction. I have had one on my 18 foot chimney
for 3 winters now and I wish I had one installed 36 years ago.

 

[Lcback]

I looked that up but I do not understand what it is.
My chimney is a class A DuraVent all fuel. If I need it taller wouldn't I just buy more sections? Are the draft inducers I see on eBay that are made to go into the stove pipe not effective?

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[bholler]

My chimney is a class A DuraVent all fuel. If I need it taller wouldn't I just buy more sections?

Yes that is what you should do but at 18' you should be ok it probably was a combination of a bad furnace and or not enough makeup air. And no draft inducers are just a bandaid and can many times make other problems.

 

[Lcback]

Thanks I'll definitely be coming back here if I have problems.
This year I was pretty bad at it. A lot of the cherry I didn't even split until July And stack in August.
All that wasted wood makes me cringe now. But you got to learn sometime

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[maple1]

Any trees around the house?

 

[Lcback]

I wouldn't call them around the house. Probably 30 yards to the nearest tree. And it's poplar and a cherry no leaves in the winter.
We are on the side of a hill thought with a prevailing wind hitting that side of the house

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[maple1]

Can you explain that hill part? Is the uphill part on the same side of the hill the wind comes from? (i.e. is it prevailing coming down the hill? Or up?). How close are you to the top of the hill?

Wind blowing over hills & houses can do all sorts of weird stuff - including sucking air out of the basement (sort of). You should be able to get a handle on the effects things have though by measuring draft with a manometer & a fire going, and opening & closing different windows (upstairs & down, each side of house...). Under different weather conditions. Maybe.

In other words - you might be on your own with some of this, only so much that can be seen over the internets.

 

[Lcback]

Hmmm. It can be tough to explain. I can take pictures though later.
There is a valley. We are half way up on side of it.
But this is a PA valley. Its not a low spot, it's that there are two mountains side by side if that makes sense.
The wind come through the low spot and really blows on my house. Of course the same side the chimney is on. With no trees to stop it. I have thought about planting some tall growing pines in the property line, but that will take years as you know.

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