Economics

[paulnlee]

If Begreen's political cartoon where posted by anyone but himself or another mod, it would be flagged. I find it interesting that there are two sets of rules on this forum. We were not eligible for a stimulus check.

Another hidden bonus in the 2 trillion package is tax relief for the wealthiest. Sounds about right, yes?

How Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7 Million

While wealthy Americans are not eligible for the $1,200 stimulus checks being disbursed to many Americans, they are on pace to do even better. 43,000 taxpayers, who earn more than $1 million annually, are each set to receive a $1.7 million windfall on average thanks to a provision in the CARES Act.

www.forbes.com

This is not a left v right issue, that is contrived by politicians. It's great when we are arguing with each other because that helps keep our eyes off the ball. The fact of the matter is that the foxes are ransacking the henhouse which means that we will be paying this bill for a very long time while the wealthy get richer. It doesn't matter your party persuasion, the bill for this is on all of us with a huge increase in the national debt to fund their gains. The debt used to be a frontline issue for the TeaPartiers. Where are they now?

Yet awhile back you hailed Canada for taking care of it's workers

 

[mcdougy]

Canada should be applauded. Help was needed and given. The system in Canada in a time of crisis is being bipartisan.
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER

 

[mcdougy]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-united-states-two-pandemics-1.5532423

 

[bholler]

Yet awhile back you hailed Canada for taking care of it's workers

Yes not sure what the point is you are trying to make. Nothing you quoted references workers or Canada.

 

[bholler]

Canada should be applauded. Help was needed and given. The system in Canada in a time of crisis is being bipartisan.
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER

To be fair the American govt is actually working together to done extent. I don't agree with some of what they are doing but they are atleast doing something.

 

[SpaceBus]

Another hidden bonus in the 2 trillion package is tax relief for the wealthiest. Sounds about right, yes?

How Some Rich Americans Are Getting Stimulus ‘Checks’ Averaging $1.7 Million

While wealthy Americans are not eligible for the $1,200 stimulus checks being disbursed to many Americans, they are on pace to do even better. 43,000 taxpayers, who earn more than $1 million annually, are each set to receive a $1.7 million windfall on average thanks to a provision in the CARES Act.

www.forbes.com

This is not a left v right issue, that is contrived by politicians. It's great when we are arguing with each other because that helps keep our eyes off the ball. The fact of the matter is that the foxes are ransacking the henhouse which means that we will be paying this bill for a very long time while the wealthy get richer. It doesn't matter your party persuasion, the bill for this is on all of us with a huge increase in the national debt to fund their gains. The debt used to be a frontline issue for the TeaPartiers. Where are they now?

I'm also convinced that our government, in addition to the UN, is designed to be ineffective. Folks are just now getting the relief funding, but folks have been out of work for weeks!

 

[bholler]

I'm also convinced that our government, in addition to the UN, is designed to be ineffective. Folks are just now getting the relief funding, but folks have been out of work for weeks!

And really those relief payments are not directed to those who need it. And simply are not enough for those who do need it. While the PPP loans which actually put money where it's needed is already out of money with a tiny portion of the loans applied for going out.

 

[SpaceBus]

And really those relief payments are not directed to those who need it. And simply are not enough for those who do need it. While the PPP loans which actually put money where it's needed is already out of money with a tiny portion of the loans applied for going out.

This morning I'm feeling so depressed about this whole thing. The US government has bungled this pandemic and then bombed the response. The institutions that make the government ineffective, created by previous regimes, have proven to be extremely effective when coupled with foreign propaganda. Yet, somehow, Spain of all nations has gotten a grip on this situation, or are at least doing better than our leadership.

If a private corporation had responded this way, it would be been destroyed. Military leadership responding in such a deplorable way would have been relieved. This is outrageous.

 

[semipro]

It's more of the same, but not really wealth distribution. It's debt based on more taxpayer money going to the corporations and wealthiest.

And more debt passed on to our children along with a variety of other problems resulting from the greed of those whose shoulders they were meant to stand upon.

 

[PaulOinMA]

… The true conservative who is not in need of the stimulus check for food, shelter etc., may not be able to refuse the money, but they certainly could apply it to help someone else. But no, most who do not need it will either rat hole it or buy a toy. Sure the toy would put money into the economy, but so would $1200 worth of food given to a food bank.
We get out of this mess by worrying about the other person as much as we worry about our self … (emphasis added)

That's a bit of a generalization. Might as well post the opposite: Most that do need it will spend it on crack and alcohol.

We don't need it. We also just signed an Agreement and Letter of Commitment at the two colleges my wife and I attended to fund scholarships.

 

[Highbeam]

I had a big reduction of income in 2019. Previously I was definitely over the limit for a single person but I switched to part time (partially by choice, partially by circumstances). The claim is that the IRS uses the 2019 return if filed but defaults to the 2018 return if the 2019 form was not filed. My 2019 return was filed months ago. There are multiple types of "income" so I am not sure what line of the tax form is used. I havent seen a check yet.

The reality is since the mortgage crisis the fed has been artificially keeping interest rate low to drive investments to the stock market. That takes money out of bondholders which tend to be retirees either directly or via pensions. Its been a major shift of money out of the elderlys pocket to the equities markets. Unfortunately some elderly could not live on the low rates or wanted more and various higher risk financial products have popped up disguised as low risk. So called High Yield bond funds sound great until one realizes that another names for High Yield bond is a junk bond. The reason is that the only way the bond issuer can borrow the money is to pay a high level of interest since the risk of their default is so high. During an economic downturn, high yield debt tends to fail so suddenly that great rate of return is not so great as the investors rapidly sell the funds containing these bonds.

Line 7. AGI is used to determine payout.

 

[Highbeam]

I am unsure as to what you mean by missing the cutoff, but do agree the government picks winners and losers.

The irs payout is income based. If you make too much AGI then you get nothing. If your child is over 16 then you don’t get the 500) child payout.

 

[Sailrmike]

created by previous regimes

This language is offensive, we dont have regimes in this country

 

[Highbeam]

I see this stimulus check as I do any other random refund, paycheck, or credit I get in the mail. Throw it in the accounts to hold against the debits in my balance sheet. It’s just not that large of an amount.

Treat all money with respect, not to be wasted, to be used to increase my personal net worth.

When I do my annual taxes there are all kinds of plusses an minuses first all sorts of politically incentivized things. This is no different. Use it like any other money as I see fit.

It just so happens that property taxes are due right now and this irs “gift” will cover it for me instead of some other random digital currency in my account.

These aren’t special marked dollars with commitments for use.

Every gallon of gas, kilowatt hour of electricity, and sip of coffee is full of tax credits and incentives from the government.

 

[begreen]

And more debt passed on to our children along with a variety of other problems resulting from the greed of those whose shoulders they were meant to stand upon.

Altruism and fiscal responsibility are gone. This $2.2 trillion package has caused a feeding frenzy amongst the greediest. Fossil fuel companies and stockbrokers are jumping in to grab chunks of the pie. Instead of creating a plan that made sure that the recently stuck at home workers have an income to feed their families and pay the rent, they passed a token $1200 check that won't even pay for a month's rent or mortgage. Meanwhile, high-rolling hedge fund companies are sucking up the bailout cash because they traditionally don't have a lot of workers so that their profits don't get thinned down too much. This rushed plan has more holes in it than swiss cheese. It is more like a big payback to the biggest campaign donors than something that will actually help America.

 

[NickW]

It seems to me that the hypocrisy abounds from both sides... I'm frustrated/angry because that hypocrisy is only seen by some from one side and throw anti sentiment against the other. Now anti big business greed and irresponsibility on the other hand I would agree with along with the anti freeloading... and I definitely am tired of back door riders and loopholes added to legislation last minute to benefit the richest. The backdoor shenanigans (by either side - current or previous) are not right.

Do I agree with the stimulus package - NO! It is not a fair deal. The only long term beneficiaries are the richest. Am I giving it away - NO! I'll be paying for it just like everyone else here.

We (my wife & I) are conservative. We spend conservatively. We make less than some siblings but are viewed as "the well off ones" because of responsible habits (or cheap as the accusation sometimes is). We don't eat out 3 or 5 times a week. We shop the sales at the grocery store and freeze it. We don't immediately spend every dime that comes in so in times of need there is something there. Our tax return goes into savings, not spent on the latest gadgets. The newest and lowest mileage vehicle we have is an '08 with 284k miles. Got teased at Xmas for finally replacing the gigantic old '92 TV with a flat screen - look! They're finally in this century! But it worked until just before Xmas - albeit sometimes with a whack. But it is suggested I should give the stimulus away because I'm conservative when it's just a cash advanced tax credit... and yes, we do support charities both financially and by volunteering.

The previous administration screwed things up in one direction, this administration screwed things up in the other direction, the next will screw it up back, and so forth... There was a radio personality who used to say he was going to start "the Common Sense" political party but it would never take off because common sense is uncommon...

 

[Sodbuster]

Money and politics are never a good combination. I am 53 years old, and started my first big boy job in 1991, as a sales rep covering 3 states, I was gone more than I was home. It doesn't surprise me that many people enter politics just regular wage earning folks and now are millionaires. Once you get into congress, the only thing that is the number one priority is staying there, to hell with the people you supposedly represent. The reason I bring up my age and when I started working was that many of the same people that were there then, are still there. Being a member of Congress was never designed to be a full time profession, just a way to serve your country, and then move on with your life. The crookedness of both parties is unbelievable, and neither is worse than the other, but power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Term limits is the only way to right this wrong.

 

[PaulOinMA]

… We (my wife & I) are conservative. We spend conservatively. We make less than some siblings but are viewed as "the well off ones" because of responsible habits (or cheap as the accusation sometimes is). We don't eat out 3 or 5 times a week. We shop the sales at the grocery store and freeze it. We don't immediately spend every dime that comes in so in times of need there is something there. Our tax return goes into savings, not spent on the latest gadgets …

Well said. Sounds a lot like us. Live WELL within our means.

My sister was executor of our late mom's estate. She kept everything for herself and kids. Mom and she redid my parents' will after dad died in 2010. Dad previously told me that he wanted to leave money to my sister and me. No mention of my sister's kids.

Sister told me that "we don't need it."

Last time I was at their house, they put in an in-ground pool. Nice house in CT. Very large separate garage/shed in addition to a 2-car attached garage. So many cars that they have a lift to stack cars in the garage in addition to all the ones in the driveway.

Mom told me in late 2015 before she died (hard to tell me after) that, "I've decided to leave 80% to Monica and 20% to you. Monica (my sister) said that you'll be alright with that, and she'll handle it."

Just about all money was at Merrill Lynch which is outside probate, so my sister kept it all for herself. Car went to her son. Jewelry went to her daughter. Contents of the house went to her son. House was split between my sister and her kids ... and she was ticked that her kids received a share of the house.

My sister sent me a $5K check.

Needless to say, I haven't talked to my sister in three years.

 

[begreen]

We (my wife & I) are conservative. We spend conservatively. We make less than some siblings but are viewed as "the well off ones" because of responsible habits (or cheap as the accusation sometimes is). We don't eat out 3 or 5 times a week. We shop the sales at the grocery store and freeze it. We don't immediately spend every dime that comes in so in times of need there is something there. Our tax return goes into savings, not spent on the latest gadgets.

We actually have a lot in common there. Politics aside, we have always leaned towards being fiscally conservative. Any long-term debt like a mortgage, we have paid off early. And that is the only long-term debt we've had since 1983.

 

[NickW]

Well said. Sounds a lot like us. Live WELL within our means.

My sister was executor of our late mom's estate. She kept everything for herself and kids. Mom and she redid my parents' will after dad died in 2010. Dad previously told me that he wanted to leave money to my sister and me. No mention of my sister's kids.

Sister told me that "we don't need it."

Last time I was at their house, they put in an in-ground pool. Nice house in CT. Very large separate garage/shed in addition to a 2-car attached garage. So many cars that they have a lift to stack cars in the garage in addition to all the ones in the driveway.

Mom told me in late 2015 before she died (hard to tell me after) that, "I've decided to leave 80% to Monica and 20% to you. Monica (my sister) said that you'll be alright with that, and she'll handle it."

Just about all money was at Merrill Lynch which is outside probate, so my sister kept it all for herself. Car went to her son. Jewelry went to her daughter. Contents of the house went to her son. House was split between my sister and her kids ... and she was ticked that her kids received a share of the house.

My sister sent me a $5K check.

Needless to say, I haven't talked to my sister in three years.

Sheesh! Not to take a shot at your family, but is she practicing for a career in politics? That sounds like Congressional accounting and shenanigans...

 

[Sodbuster]

Sheesh! Not to take a shot at your family, but is she practicing for a career in politics? That sounds like Congressional accounting and shenanigans...

Ouch, what did you do to anger your mother, usually parents split their estate equally among their heirs? I am executor for my parents estate, and I'm not looking forward to the job. Not only will it mean losing my parents but someone always feels slighted, but 80/20 is rough.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Sister told me that "we don't need it."
Last time I was at their house, they put in an in-ground pool. Nice house in CT. Very large separate garage/shed in addition to a 2-car attached garage. So many cars that they have a lift to stack cars in the garage in addition to all the ones in the driveway.
Needless to say, I haven't talked to my sister in three years.

I dont blame you ,you got royally hosed. Big injustice to punish you for being responsible and to reward your sister for being irresponsible. But i see that a lot. Causes a lot of conflict among siblings. Not something i would ever think of doing with my kids. The Govt works a lot like that. Constantly rewards bad behavior and punishes good. Ill be leaving a good bit of real estate to my kids . They will either take it and prosper or manage it badly and lose it , all up to them.

 

[NickW]

Ouch, what did you do to anger your mother, usually parents split their estate equally among their heirs? I am executor for my parents estate, and I'm not looking forward to the job. Not only will it mean losing my parents but someone always feels slighted, but 80/20 is rough.

Didn't sound to me like he got anything near 20%...

Yes, executor is a thankless job. I was and ended up forfeiting it because a sibling took advantage of my trusting nature. Another sibling straightened it out and we're all good now and the relationships are repaired, but it was unpleasant...

 

[PaulOinMA]

Oh, I effectively nothing. Mom had a very loose connection with reality.

 

[Sodbuster]

Didn't sound to me like he got anything near 20%...

Yes, executor is a thankless job. I was and ended up forfeiting it because a sibling took advantage of my trusting nature. Another sibling straightened it out and we're all good now and the relationships are repaired, but it was unpleasant...

That was my point, but we don't know the value of the estate.