Drolet Tundra Problems

[brenndatomu]

I just installed a Tundra in my home and I'm having the same problem. Black liquid coming out of the elbow that slopes upward towards my chimney. The chimney is about 25 foot tall and has 9x9 clay tile inside. It does not yet have a liner and I haven't installed my barometric damper yet but will be soon. The wood is good and thought I had enough makeup air but might add more. I let the fire get rolling before closing the damper and I do notice the flue pipe temps drop enough that I can put my hand on it. Should I just leave the damper open? Was going to hook it up to a t-stat tonight but I might wait until I get the damper. We have a stack of Dwyer Mark 2 type 25's at work, I'll snag one and get some hard line and install it, should it go before the barometric damper? Thanks all.

Hi plips.
First of all, how many fires have you had in it...it can take a couple good fires to dry out the firebrick it seems.
Second, how dry is the wood...that's always the number one suspect.
Third, you need some type of thermometer to get a flue temp reading...you may not be getting things hot enough before the damper shuts.
Forth, a 9x9 clay tile chimney has a very low chance of working out for you IMO. The cross section area of that chimney is 63.5 sq. inches, Drolet calls for just over 28...so you are over double. These things just don't waste enough heat up the flue to keep that much area warm enough to work. Plus a square flue doesn't flow as well as a round one. The good news is 9 x 9 is a good size to be able to drop an insulated liner in.
And yes, the draft sample needs to be taken between the baro and the stove

 

[plips_2002]

Thanks for your reply, I bought this unit in Nov and hooked it up in my shop to pre-burn it before it went into my house (cure the paint, burn off any oils on the metal, etc) and had at least 10 good fires in it. My shop has 6" double wall and it only leaked out condensation the first time I fired it. I do have a moisture meter so I will check my wood but I'm pretty sure its seasoned enough. I also have a magnetic thermo that I will put on the flue pipe to monitor the temps, so I'm guessing you are 100% correct about the clay flue chimney, especially if the book says so. At this point I'm going to order the SS flue liner and insulating blanket as well as a barometric damper which I was going to get anyway (manual recommends it anyway). For now I will keep the damper open since I haven't hooked it to a t-stat yet to keep the flue pipe hot, it will be at least a week before I get the liner. Thank you very much for your input, it's been very helpful!!

 

[maple1]

A probe type pipe thermometer would be more accurate than a magnetic stick on.

Agreed 100% with an insulated s/s liner.

 

[brenndatomu]

For now I will keep the damper open since I haven't hooked it to a t-stat yet to keep the flue pipe hot

FYI, SBI recommends this not be done, they say that causes overfiring...dunno if it would in this situation or not. You'd need a manometer hooked up to the stovepipe to check the draft after the fire really gets rolling. My guess is that is would get the chimney hot, overdraft, you close the damper and the temp drops like rock...that's the classic scenario with a "too large flue"
Also, you may want to check your flue to make sure you have ~8" the whole way down (drop a piece of 8" pipe down through the flue on a rope) If it goes without too much trouble then you should be OK. If not then there maybe a mortar joint that needs the "excess" snapped off, or worse case scenario you could order 1/4" insulation blanket instead of the standard 1/2".

 

[plips_2002]

FYI, SBI recommends this not be done, they say that causes overfiring...dunno if it would in this situation or not. You'd need a manometer hooked up to the stovepipe to check the draft after the fire really gets rolling. My guess is that is would get the chimney hot, overdraft, you close the damper and the temp drops like rock...that's the classic scenario with a "too large flue"
Also, you may want to check your flue to make sure you have ~8" the whole way down (drop a piece of 8" pipe down through the flue on a rope) If it goes without too much trouble then you should be OK. If not then there maybe a mortar joint that needs the "excess" snapped off, or worse case scenario you could order 1/4" insulation blanket instead of the standard 1/2".

It's a clear 8x8 square clay flue, so I will be doing a SS liner with insulation. It's probably gonna be a couple weeks before I get that done so in the mean time should I be ok with burning until then? I did hook a T-stat to it so once loaded and going it's on auto pilot, and when the damper closes and the black pipe cools I am getting the condensation but it's thin like water, not thick like a sap or tar. I put a bucket under the point of exit to catch the fluid and since it's thin I shouldn't worry about creosote build up too fast right? I know the pipes need to be cleaned often but it's only been installed for just over a week now. It's so nice to not have to rely on propane as much cause this thing keeps the house at perfect temps. I want to be a safe as possible so any info is appreciated. Thanks all!!

 

[brenndatomu]

I am getting the condensation but it's thin like water, not thick like a sap or tar. I put a bucket under the point of exit to catch the fluid and since it's thin I shouldn't worry about creosote build up too fast right?

No, actually that is very likely giving you the worst kind of creosote, the stage 3 "gooey" or liquid kind. What you are seeing running out of the pipe is watery, but the inside of the pipe is coated in "tar" and that will ignite the easiest, and burn the best, out of the 3 kinds of creosote...

 

[plips_2002]

No, actually that is very likely giving you the worst kind of creosote, the stage 3 "gooey" or liquid kind. What you are seeing running out of the pipe is watery, but the inside of the pipe is coated in "tar" and that will ignite the easiest, and burn the best, out of the 3 kinds of creosote...

Crap, well not what I wanted to hear but I will take your advice and hold off on burning. I just went up to the roof to measure how deep the chimney and I shined a flashlight down inside to find (2) of the clay flue sections offset for one another (ugh), the ID of the flue is about 6 and 1/2 inches, so now I'm concerned that a insulating wrap isnt going to make it down the flue. I'd say its at least 6 feet down from the top so of course no easy fix and I literally have no where else I can pipe this thing out of my basement except the front of the house. A while back I talked to a gentleman at HY-C who now owns the FireChief wood furnace brand name. He is the go to guy for all installation questions for that brand and he recommended instead of wrapping the entire liner that I could go to any home center and purchase a bag of fireproof insulation (I forget the name he gave but it wasnt vermiculite) and from the top stuff down as much as I can around the liner. I understand that its a totally different brand of furnace, I'm just wondering if it's an option and what it might be called. I really cant afford to redo the old chimney . Im also concerned that even after the liner, insulation, and baro damper I'll still have a problem...

 

[DoubleB]

Hey plips,
For what it's worth--I'm not the chimney guy around here. Also, I have a 6" uninsulated liner in a 35+ foot chimney, and I've never had trouble getting enough draft on my Tundra. Of course your 25' chimney is shorter, but not as short as we've seen here. My point is that I don't think you should get too discouraged yet, it still might work just fine even if you can't insulate all, or maybe even any, of it.

 

[plips_2002]

Hey plips,
For what it's worth--I'm not the chimney guy around here. Also, I have a 6" uninsulated liner in a 35+ foot chimney, and I've never had trouble getting enough draft on my Tundra. Of course your 25' chimney is shorter, but not as short as we've seen here. My point is that I don't think you should get too discouraged yet, it still might work just fine even if you can't insulate all, or maybe even any, of it.

I get it, and I'm not discouraged, I really do appreciate your input. We use Rockwool at work for insulation so I have access to a tone of it. I'm gonna run the liner and stuff as much of it in as I can and see how it goes. All I can do is try and cross any bridges I need to when I come to them. I have a feeling that it will help keep the main body of the flue warm enough to keep condensation down to at least a minimum, plus adding the baro damper and a manometer (which I have a stack of at work also) I think I'll be ok. Ill keep you all posted after I get the liner and damper in. I don't go down without a fight lol

 

[plips_2002]

Ok, so my clay flue chimney has an inside diameter of 6.5"x6.5", smaller then I thought. The problem I am having now is that 3 or 4 of the clay tiles have offset themselves and I cannot get the liner down the chimney. There is about 5.5 feet of chimney that is above the finished roof and it looks like the offset tile is within that area so I may have to demo the top of the chimney and either repair it or cope it with morter and continue with class A pipe, is there a collar that transitions from flex liner to class A? I haven't found one yet so I may try to keep the brick and have someone restack it for me. Also, is there an adjustment on the damper to maybe keep it open a little to keep the stove pipe/flue warmer? Seems to me when its closed it can be moved by hand without resistance, so I wondering about trying to prop it open a bit to keep the fire hotter then when it's closed. I know Ill go through wood faster, just exploring my options.

 

[brenndatomu]

What size liner is it? Insulated? If you look on utube you will find vids of people that did a DIY ovalized liner...I would think you could also work it into more of a square shape too. Practice on an extra piece if you have it.
They do make a flex to class A converter...it is basically made to extend your existing chimney taller if you need to...so that may work for you.
They is no adjustment on the damper...many of us just bend a small paper clip to block the damper open a bit...it doesn't take much, especially in cooler weather....probably won't need it at all once the liner goes in.

 

[plips_2002]

It is a 6 inch un-insulated liner. I do know how to install them and the clay flue tiles that are offset are so offset that no molding of the liner wll get past. On two of them I can actually see the back edge of the clay liner, so taking it down 5 feet or so seems to be my only option. Do you know what the name of that transition collar is and possibly where to get it? I was thinking of a paper clip myself for the damper, but the weather being the way it is might not get to burn another fire this season. Thanks for the reply.

 

[brenndatomu]

Oh, yeah if it is that bad you have no choice...sounds like you should not use it anymore like that either.
Transition plate https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.com/rock-vent-transition-plate.php