Do Ashfords have a smoke smell problem?

[Ashful]

It's because the firebox is so much shallower. The deep box on the king and Princess causes more turbulence which interrupts the airwash.

Not following, how does the deeper firebox create more turbulence? Why do non-cat, deep firebox stoves seem to evade this issue?

I think webby had the right idea, but stated it backwards. A larger firebox is going to cause a greater drop in velocity for the same volume of air. This low air velocity may be why some claim the air wash on the King and Princess does not work as well as the Ashford.

This theory holds true, whether you're talking about carburetors, dust collectors, or material separators. Dump your high velocity flow thru a large cross-section, and velocity drops.

 

[begreen]

That makes more sense intuitively to me though I did not notice a degradation in air wash or glass staying clear when I went from the shallow Castine to the deep Alderlea T6. Both stoves do a good job of keeping the glass clean. That's why I asked for an explanation.

 

[Ashful]

What I think challenges the theory above is that the Princess and Ashford are VERY close in firebox size. No?

As to Castine vs. T6... both flow a lot more air than a BK on low.

 

[begreen]

Yes, but with quite different designs. In particular the Princess has a sloped door and firebox which is deeper at the bottom than at the top. The Ashford glass is perpendicular. I think the sloped glass is a challenge for an airwash.

 

[BrotherBart]

More turbulence in any firebox is going to lead to more complete combustion and less crap on the glass. Cat, non-cat, pony, non-pony, dog, non-dog...

 

[Woody Stover]

I guess I'm taking too long to post....begreen and Joful said the same things I've got in this one. Oh well...

Not following, how does the deeper firebox create more turbulence? Why do non-cat, deep firebox stoves seem to evade this issue?

I think the air wash just gets weak when it has such a long way to the bottom of the stove (not sure if that's what he means by shallow, or if he's talking front to back, which is how I would interpret 'shallow.') And the King and Princess windows are tilted, so the air would have a harder time traveling in that slanted direction, I'd think. The non-cats are just burning hotter so they avoid the gunked window, I guess.

After I posted I did think about how the cooler air directly hitting the cat could be a problem but i thought well maybe the air gets heated enough before it gets to the cat.

Think about it, what sets blaze king apart? Burn times! And long lasting cats!

I figured if BKVP was mentioning how leaky door gaskets wreck the cat, they must have been having a problem with them. Not true?

If you had one you would experience 1 of 2 things, maybe both. Blown out cats in a short amount of time, or greatly reduced burn times. Both of which plague other cat stove manufacturers. In the past that was the norm with cat stoves, comparatively poor burn times and premature cat failure. The stoves mentioned above have proved to have similar burn times as a tube style non-cat stove.
This is the same problem that these Hybrid stoves will struggle with. It's already been proving true. I must exclude Woodstock though, they seem to have it figured out.

I thought you were saying in other threads the cats were dying from flame exposure, or are you saying cold air wash is getting them? At any rate, the fact that the Woodstocks don't seem to be having cat problems, and are getting much longer than tube stove burn times, indicates that the hybrid tech is viable, despite your doubts about it.

 

[Woody Stover]

More turbulence in any firebox is going to lead to more complete combustion and less crap on the glass. Cat, non-cat, pony, non-pony, dog, non-dog...

What is this, some kinda dog-and-pony show?

 

[webby3650]

I guess I'm taking too long to post....begreen and Joful said the same things I've got in this one. Oh well...I think the air wash just gets weak when it has such a long way to the bottom of the stove (not sure if that's what he means by shallow, or if he's talking front to back, which is how I would interpret 'shallow.') And the King and Princess windows are tilted, so the air would have a harder time traveling in that slanted direction, I'd think. The non-cats are just burning hotter so they avoid the gunked window, I guess.

I figured if BKVP was mentioning how leaky door gaskets wreck the cat, they must have been having a problem with them. Not true?
I thought you were saying in other threads the cats were dying from flame exposure, or are you saying cold air wash is getting them? At any rate, the fact that the Woodstocks don't seem to be having cat problems, and are getting much longer than tube stove burn times, indicates that the hybrid tech is viable, despite your doubts about it.

My doubts aren't on the theory of hybrid technology. Only on the process of throwing stoves together to meet the new EPA regs!
Kinda sounds like the 1980's cat stove thing doesn't it? Bang out clean burning stoves, and let the consumer deal with all the fall out.

 

[webby3650]

Blaze king is not having issues with cat degradation. That's why they are offering an unconditional 10 year warrany. The issues are so rare that they can usually track the problem down to a bad door gasket.

 

[BKVP]

@shoot-straight
@Parallax
@Calentarse
@motorsargeT (sirroco 30)
@cannon
@Poindexter
@alforit

Would each of you Blaze King Ashford owners please pm me the following:

Serial Number of your Ashford (Located on label on rear of stove, begins WH#
Your name, address, city, state, zip and day time telephone number

Thank you all very much.

Chris

 

[begreen]

My doubts aren't on the theory of hybrid technology. Only on the process of throwing stoves together to meet the new EPA regs!
Kinda sounds like the 1980's cat stove thing doesn't it? Bang out clean burning stoves, and let the consumer deal with all the fall out.

I don't think any major company will just bang out a new stove. It is too costly. They have 5 yrs before the new phase 3 emissions regs go into effect. Note that the upcoming regs are far less of a leap in emissions reduction than the last change and that the last time the market started dropping the losers pretty quickly. Stove makers have learned a few things in the interim. It looks like some popular stoves will not be making much change at all. Others have 5 years to refine new designs. In the end we should have more efficient stoves. That is what folks here, especially cat stove owners, keep chirping about. My main gripe is that the cordwood requirement got shot down. That would have provided a more meaningful metric than burning 2x4s.

 

[BKVP]

I don't think any major company will just bang out a new stove. It is too costly. They have 5 yrs before the new phase 3 emissions regs go into effect. Note that the upcoming regs are far less of a leap in emissions reduction than the last change and that the last time the market started dropping the losers pretty quickly. Stove makers have learned a few things in the interim. It looks like some popular stoves will not be making much change at all. Others have 5 years to refine new designs. In the end we should have more efficient stoves. That is what folks here, especially cat stove owners, keep chirping about. My main gripe is that the cordwood requirement got shot down. That would have provided a more meaningful metric than burning 2x4s.

Begreen,

It did not get shot down. It is still an option that many will use to get the more liberal 2.5 gr/hr allowance. Or if they want to, they can test with crib fuel but must pass 2.0 gr/hr.

I am on the ASTM committee for the test method and it is most definitely moving forward a with great interest by all.

Chris

 

[begreen]

That's good news. It sounds like there still will be confusion when the sales brochures do not list the testing method. Too few companies do this.

 

[BKVP]

That's good news. It sounds like there still will be confusion when the sales brochures do not list the testing method. Too few companies do this.

You need to read the NSPS! All actual test reports (excluding CBI) must be provided on Web sites. CO, HHV efficiency etc are mandatory and must be the same on brochures, manuals and websites.

The new requirements are very extensive. I would encourage you to read all 364 pages.

 

[SCOTT S.]

Late two the party, we sometimes get a slight smoke smell in the house never thought to much about it or tried to track it down. I have only spent 2 years of my life with out some kind of wood burner in the house, I just thought this is normal?

 

[Isaiah53]

I never get a smoke smell with mine, but I have about 28 feet of interior double wall chimney with two 45's. The house is at 9000 ft of elevation which offsets this somewhat, but I believe I have plenty of draft. I also have an HRV in the house. Run it most of the time on 1 or 1.5 and it controls the temperature in my downstairs basement recreation room very well. I do get creosote build-up on the glass. Starts in the lower corners. Wood is very dry soft wood - usually 12-15% MC.

From reading the various threads on this, it would appear to me that the leakage on these stoves is coming from the door seals. I can believe that a BK might be more prone to this issue given that it is designed to produce a lot of off-gas in the firebox upstream of the cat (especially on low), and it is probably going to have less draft in the firebox than a secondary burn stove with an equal chimney arrangement due to the pressure drop across the cat. I suspect a marginal draft situation together with a less than perfect door seal could produce some smoke smell. A little smoke goes a long way. Not sure that a satisfactory dollar bill test by itself guarantees the door seal is sufficiently adequate to stop a small amount of leakage that would give a smoke smell.