DIYing a masonry heater in a circa 1880s home

[DIYMasonryHeater25]

There are "rope heaters" you can plug in and wind around the pipes that are exposed to cold. (And heat will conduct to where you can't reach them).
They use a lot less power than electric stand alone heaters because you don't heat the space but just the pipes.

This may be a cheap solution to keep the pipes safe if you go with a wood stove upstairs.

I hadn't heard of those. (I did find the pipe insulation that is kind of like soft styrofoam, uou place it over the pipe and take off the paper(?) over the sticky part to glue the ends together.)

Do those only work on metal pipes? What about PVC, or flexible tubing? (That is how most of our water lines and all of the radiator lines are made of.)

 

[DIYMasonryHeater25]

I Agee , My Old Victorian Never Insulated when We Bought It Either & 400k , Peerless Boiler in Middle of Basement.
( Built like Brick Out House )
But It had 11" Poured Walls by Hand Built Forms with 8 x10" Beams Running those Walls
Steel Supports - Commercial Grade Build - Original Guy was Well to Do . . & New Many Builders
as He was a Surveyor by Trade for Grandfathered Homes in that Area . . 6.5ft Deep with Beams on Top
Floor Joist all - Hand Notched - In . . ( I have been in over 187 Homes ) Never seen anything like this ..

Usually Stayed 40~41F in Cold of Winter - Cold Snaps see 38F also 2" of Solid Wood above that . .Flooring . .
Now just so You may Compare - I'm filling in Blanks Peerless Boiler is about 3.5ft High 2ft x 2ft . . It did Have
.279 Hole in Main Nozzle - Over 1/4" I was - like O-M-G . . so that Got Changed Out to a .129 Inside Dia.
We Insulated Empty Walls will Blown in Pressurized Full 4" & 38 Storm Window with in First 3 yrs ..
Basement Windows all got Up Graded to Full 5/8" Insulated Glass - No E-Coatings back then ..
I Boxed in Boiler with It's Own 12ft x 12ft Room . . Then Ran 3/4" Hard Foam around 2 Walls on Wind Side & Cover Rest & That
with 3/4" Tq & Groove this Took Time about another Yr & 1/2 as We had Time & Money ..
Found Items on Sale !

At that Point Basement stayed at 50F to 52F & Long Deep Cold 46F - Floors in Home Felt so Much Better - this Will Be Result !
Your Get with even Warmer Basement & Floors !

As that Will Be way Warmer then Old Boiler - Gravity Unit - Moving 68 Gallons Up & Down 2 Loops Slowly . .
12ft x 12ft Room would Hold about 55F~60F
as Water Temps on Coldest of Day Gravity Units - Only Run 115-120F If That . .
We had 2-3 weeks where Temps would be in Mid Teens . . 11F ~ 19F

Hope Your OK - Sounds Like Good Projects , Remember what Others Do Not Realize when I say 1 Million BTU's
They Live in a Heated Box Above Basement which is Insulated & Ceiling Insulated also ..
Most Heat Raises , also ( It's When 1 Goes to Heat Basement Loses Begin ) . .

Just Heads Up - to what You May want to Consider - or - Do Before or After Placement , Leave Room . . to do those Items . .

Looking Forward to this Project ..

My Recent Insulation in Basement as this Wall had Nothing !

Only Thermal Broke Upper Near Freeze Zone allowing Lower to Breathe Out & R30 Above that R18 with R15 Lower
Do to Earth Temps - Not Much If any Gain Going Higher in Lower Half . .

Rook Wool as it DOES NOT Ever be Effected by Moisture & Yellow Pine Wall Wanes Panels are Exterior Grade . .

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That's great you can do that in your basement. Ours floods multiple times in the early spring and summer when snow melts and ground water levels rise. It's only an inch or so in the valleys (we have a lot of valleys and high points, so we end up with a series of puddles that we have to push forward to the sump pump.) We took out a wood separating wall and one other piece because the bottoms were rotted away. from the water intrusions. And we had to dispose of a few pieces where the legs to the table or whatever it was were eaten away.

If we insulated the walls, a few inches on the bottom would have to be bare, to make sure the water doesn't damage it. (We have 4 water tanks down there, between the water heater, the heat pump's water heater/cooler, and the 2 tanks for the well water. If any or all of them blew, that would be A LOT of water to deal with.

 

[stoveliker]

I hadn't heard of those. (I did find the pipe insulation that is kind of like soft styrofoam, uou place it over the pipe and take off the paper(?) over the sticky part to glue the ends together.)

Do those only work on metal pipes? What about PVC, or flexible tubing? (That is how most of our water lines and all of the radiator lines are made of.)

You only need to heat them to a bit above freezing, so pvc (pex?) should be fine.
Amazon sells stuff even for garden hoses. I'm not recommending (or the opposite) this, but it's just a screenshot of what came up first.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Know what you’re dealing with. PVC should be drain lines on newer work. Only traps will have water in them. The rest should be empty. PVC and CPVC can burst. Pex can freeze, but it’s best if it doesn’t. Metal will freeze and burst. Understand your plumbing system so you can accurately figure out what needs to be done.

You may find that insulating your basement keeps it warm enough that freezing isn’t a huge issue as the ground below the frost line stays warmer than freezing.

 

[EngTechnow]

Agree

They saying 1" on any Pipe Over 3/4" & Thicker on Larger Pipes , but certainly any Protection is Good ..

Just Got Lucky Original Built - Hired Good Man - Masonry Work is A-Plus & Our Lots is Wet ( Current Home ) . .
They Placed a Dry Field - about 12ft Away - Under Large Concrete Drive , there Huge Amount of Gravel that French Drains Run into.
Even with that - There's a Sump Pump that got Up Graded .. Plus I had to Hand Dig Outside to get all Gutter's way Far away Under Ground - Dumping into Ditch - Believe It doesn't just Happen 1-2-3 ( Time )
Custom Down Spouts with Higher Flow etc.

Now

I Have Seen - Very Neat Product Engineered with Drainage Field Built into Back Side of It - They Place it on Walls - Outside & Inside Basements - It's Very Fast Install .. I also Believe Video of Basement Floor ..is Being Used that Way Also Air Channels in Back of Product .
It's Able to Hold Huge Wall Loads Per Panel #600 lbs as it has Built in Special Stud Mounts that Melt & Grab Hardware as it is Screwed Down .. ( I Just Found this Last Month ) called - ( " InSoFast " ) Link : Very Neat Item . . My Framing in Current Basement & Wiring was already In Place - We were Redoing It as Poor Materials were Used & No Insulation - Not to Mention I Bought 15 Bags of Rockwool in 2019 , Before Big Hit & On Sale - Plus Veterans Discount - so - We went Old Fashion Way ..

I also Found this Link of DIY that Looks Very Doable - at Least It May have some Hints in there How to Go or some Tricks
of Trade ..
There maybe Better Examples , just Hope this is a Help : Fire Brick ~ Ping & Sing ~ Cutting Channels ~

 

[bholler]

Agree

They saying 1" on any Pipe Over 3/4" & Thicker on Larger Pipes , but certainly any Protection is Good ..

Just Got Lucky Original Built - Hired Good Man - Masonry Work is A-Plus & Our Lots is Wet ( Current Home ) . .
They Placed a Dry Field - about 12ft Away - Under Large Concrete Drive , there Huge Amount of Gravel that French Drains Run into.
Even with that - There's a Sump Pump that got Up Graded .. Plus I had to Hand Dig Outside to get all Gutter's way Far away Under Ground - Dumping into Ditch - Believe It doesn't just Happen 1-2-3 ( Time )
Custom Down Spouts with Higher Flow etc.

Now

I Have Seen - Very Neat Product Engineered with Drainage Field Built into Back Side of It - They Place it on Walls - Outside & Inside Basements - It's Very Fast Install .. I also Believe Video of Basement Floor ..is Being Used that Way Also Air Channels in Back of Product .
It's Able to Hold Huge Wall Loads Per Panel #600 lbs as it has Built in Special Stud Mounts that Melt & Grab Hardware as it is Screwed Down .. ( I Just Found this Last Month ) called - ( " InSoFast " ) Link : Very Neat Item . . My Framing in Current Basement & Wiring was already In Place - We were Redoing It as Poor Materials were Used & No Insulation - Not to Mention I Bought 15 Bags of Rockwool in 2019 , Before Big Hit & On Sale - Plus Veterans Discount - so - We went Old Fashion Way ..

I also Found this Link of DIY that Looks Very Doable - at Least It May have some Hints in there How to Go or some Tricks
of Trade ..
There maybe Better Examples , just Hope this is a Help : Fire Brick ~ Ping & Sing ~ Cutting Channels ~

But if it's actually water table which is very common in some areas there is nothing that will stop that water.

 

[bholler]

That's great you can do that in your basement. Ours floods multiple times in the early spring and summer when snow melts and ground water levels rise. It's only an inch or so in the valleys (we have a lot of valleys and high points, so we end up with a series of puddles that we have to push forward to the sump pump.) We took out a wood separating wall and one other piece because the bottoms were rotted away. from the water intrusions. And we had to dispose of a few pieces where the legs to the table or whatever it was were eaten away.

If we insulated the walls, a few inches on the bottom would have to be bare, to make sure the water doesn't damage it. (We have 4 water tanks down there, between the water heater, the heat pump's water heater/cooler, and the 2 tanks for the well water. If any or all of them blew, that would be A LOT of water to deal with.

With a wet uninsulated Basement i would just insulate the pipes maybe heat tape them if it gets really cold down there then insulate the floor and install a woodstove on the first floor

 

[EngTechnow]

I stay Far Away from Pipe Wrapping Heater Cords .. I have seen to many Places Go in Flames ..

On Metal & Far away from any Burnable Items .. ( If it was Emergency ) . .

I had to redo Skirting on Trailer - that got all Burned Off and Damage to Under side of Acquaintance - that - Need Help
in Winter .. Just to have Her BF come back 2 weeks Later & Install another 1 After I spent 5 Hrs Insulating everything .. Protection . .
He Lit Place Up Again !
( I had to Show Fire Department Photo's ) of My Work - Oh Joy !

OK so Insulating Rim Joist is Huge Improving Area & Area with Big Leaks ( Cold Drafts ) - those Need to Be ~ Sealed & Insulated ~

 

[DBoon]

Hi DIYMasonryHeater25,

Wow, this sounds like a big project, with all the stress of living in it while you are trying to complete it. Kudos to you for having the dream and the vision for the next 25-30 years of your life and the energy and ambition to accomplish it!

I just completed a 5+ year renovation (doing a lot of work myself) and I didn't live in it during that time, and I know how much work it is. You will likely get burned out at some point trying to get all this stuff done or (worse) you could get injured (things are tougher in your 50s). My advice is to figure out how early in this project you can get the most savings and take some work off your plate so you can focus on doing other necessary things earlier and correctly. Also, pick one thing and see it through before starting the next thing.

I hear that you have three really, really big issues right now:

1. Comfort is poor
2. Cost to heat is prohibitive (high usage and usage above what solar PV system provides)
3. You want to be able to heat the house during a power outage

Regarding 1 (comfort) , I have to believe that your house is really, really drafty and in need of major air sealing (which is why 72 degrees is needed by your husband for comfort). A blower door test should be done to confirm where the major problems are and there are probably a few problems that can be fixed fairly easily (maybe this was already done, maybe the outer doors were one of these fixes already?), but 90% of the air-sealing is just fixing the entire exterior of the house and the ceiling, which can only be practically done well if the walls are taken down to the studs (inside) or the siding is removed from the outside. I am going to assume that the entire inside cannot be gutted at once and that residing the outside is not in the budget in the near future. Thus, the draftiness of the house will only get better over time as you do the complete renovation of the structure little by little over time. The good news is that you sound very capable and air sealing is one of those things that is easy to do and can be much better performed by a DIYer who is very detail-oriented and willing to do the thousands of things necessary to seal the gaps on exposed walls and old windows - my experience is that contractors have no interest in doing this detailed work to the level of quality that is required. I achieved <1 ACH50 air-infiltration on my old house (something I was told was impossible) and I can feel warm in my house when it is 65 degrees.

Regarding 2 (cost/usage), what you really need before the next heating season is something that is the lowest cost to bring your electrical usage down by 2 MWh or so per month in the middle of winter. Unless you have stacks of wood already dried for 2 years, a wood stove or a masonry heater is not the answer (note: NOBODY sells wood that's been dried for two years, no matter what they tell you). I'd recommend a single ductless minisplit with 24kBTU rating (30kBTU if they make them that big) installed in the biggest room of your lower level. You should be able to get this installed in the $3-4k range (if it works down to cold temperatures, -5 degrees F is pretty common, -17 degrees F is available also). This minisplit will not use any electric resistance heat (I am guessing that the Chiltrix air-to-water heat pump is often running in electric resistance backup mode). You can also DIY the minisplit - there are some on this forum who have bought them for less and installed them themselves, with good results. If this saves 8000 kWh in a winter heating season (reasonable assumption) and if your electricity costs 20 cents/kWh, then it is savings of $1600 per year and nobody has to cut wood or load a stove or do anything to get this savings. This is a payback period of 2 years (roughly, shorter if you DIY it) and frees your time up to do other things. You can keep or get rid of this minisplit in the future.

Regarding 3 (backup heat), I would install a big woodstove (there are many that would work fine - I won't make a specific recommendation - but invest in something durable and well-made). I modern, appropriately sized stove (2.5 cubic feet or larger) can be loaded twice a day and come close to heating your entire house on two loads a day with three loads a day providing 100% heat (assuming that heat can get to where it needs to be). You said you have wood on your property - either cut some of that this spring and get it stacked or buy a full cord (or two) from a local supplier and stack it in the sun and wind and top cover it well. Use that stove in an emergency, but avoid the temptation to try to use it full time as the wood will be too wet and you will just be frustrated that your stove "doesn't burn well", or use packaged bio-bricks in an emergency (an even better option). Just to be realistic - burning 5 cords of wood a year (what you would need in a MH or woodstove to satisfy the heat load you describe) is a LOT of work and very demanding on a 50ish body (I am 60, so I know). Making the minimal investment in a backup heat source gives you piece of mind now during power outages and also gives you time to learn whether you want to live the woodburning lifestyle to that extent. For reference, I cut (from my woods), split, stack and burn 2 full cords a year and that is plenty of work, I can tell you, and my body feels the effort of that when I do that work in the fall. I could not prepare 5 full cords a year. Also, you need a good place to stack and dry your wood - my front porch is a good place to store a week's worth of wood but not to drying a full heating season's worth of wood (too small, and it is structurally not built to support that kind of weight anyways, and I agree with your husband - it would look terrible with 2 cords of wood on it.

Lastly, you have a ton of work on your hands, it sounds like, and a husband who sounds like he is not fully satisfied with comfort of the house and the pace of improvements. Taking on a big project (masonry heater) when you've never done any masonry before is a recipe for delays, cost overruns and complications. I know - I tackled a few of those types of things. Stick with what you are good at now and sub out some of these other things, or delay the "new learning" project for later. Realistically, you will need to dig a hole in your basement to pour a foundation and build a masonry support for the MH on your first floor - that's a lot of work (or expense, my version of that cost about $4k six years ago) and that is before you can construct anything that provides heat. For $4k you can get either a minisplit (installed by someone else) or maybe most of a full woodstove + install (installed by someone else) with no work on your part and instant benefit - the benefit being that your heating costs go down and your husband gets quieter about being cold.

Or, another idea is to build the foundation for a MH, but just put a hearth and a woodstove on top of it for now with a pipe going straight up and out (like your MH would have). It gives you the option to do more later, with a modest up-front cost.

Good luck on everything - looking forward to hearing how everything gets done.