Direct connect combustion air - Wood Gun E100

[avc8130]

Your rotary timer for the purge "stuck".

I hate that stupid thing. I hardly use mine. If I do, I always make 100% sure it is counting down before I walk away.

I can see your WG is older. The new ones are definitely wired so that ALL power is killed when the high limit aquastat is triggered. Do you have a high limit aquastat?

ac

 

[infinitymike]

Even if the rotary purge time "stuck" the unit would shut off with the High Limit Aquastat.

His Hi limit is set for 210* so a 13* over swing is nothing to worry about.

I've seen overswings of up 20 almost 25*. Not often, but it has happened a few times.
No big deal.

 

[Pontypool]

Funny you should mention that. No, the timer did not go to zero, it stopped a bit short. What is the point of having a timer if I have to stand over it to make sure it finishes? When I cranked it initially I stopped at 3, it started ticking, while I was loading it ran out of time so I cranked it to 15, it did not tick. I wiggled the knob, then it started.

I have had backfires twice after a 20 minute shutdown. My fresh air duct goes into a steel pail - makes a heck of a THUMP when it happens.

Yes - I think it wise to plug the oil burner tube.

My ash pan gaskets were put on completely wrong. The ones on the short sides both missed the cyclone frame. When I removed them to reposition them, they would not stick again. The top and bottom were barely making contact
so I removed them all siliconed them in place and put a skim of silicone over them. I was getting dust trails on the shiny black cyclone, but now it stays clean so I think it is sealed.

My 24 ga SS vertical off the cyclone is welded at each end and machine pressed at the seam - so I never siliconed that and never gave it another thought. But hey, it can't hurt - will do that this weekend, one more thing I can eliminate.
The infrared will not work on the SS, but I was thinking today I could proably just put some black marker dots and shoot those. Will try tonight.

Why are you taking down your pipes? Why not run a chimney brush down the pipe covered with a tied on rag to loosen all the soot, then run an extended shop vac hose hose down to clean it up. You could have a mirror on a stick if there is a bend. That is my plan. I have a 45 degree bend at 5 feet, then 4 feet to the chimney. My pipes are insulated to avoid shielding - heavy - so I don't plan to ever take them down - also very messy - I use to do the take down thing with my old wood burner for 20 years - no more. If there is no creosote in the pipe it should be real easy to clean. Pics of my pipes.

 

[infinitymike]

I'm sorry, but I am still baffled on how you can keep the house at 77* or 70* at night and only put that small amount of wood in there.
Amazing, absolutely amazing.

 

[infinitymike]

Some WG owners have welded flat stock on the inside of the ash pan to make a channel and stuffed a rope gasket in there.
I'm sure with your metal fab skills, it would be an easy fix.


Who has a pic of their modification?

 

[Pontypool]

Yes I have quickly developed somewhat of a hate for the purge timer. The first time I used it, it didn't occur to me to observe how long it had been shut down for - probably less than 15 minutes. When I turned it - BOOM!
The second time was this morning.

I have a dual function aquastat on the front corner above the handles - actually you can see it in the pic I just posted 2605. One part is the high limit, the other part is the low temp shut off. Bought my WG new from AHS in Oct 2009, but have only started using it Dec 17 2014. I think it was probably the high limit that shut it down - as per Mikes post - but really, 13* over? What scares me is getting the fluid beyond 212F - think I will lower my high limit to 200F since that really means 213F.

Since I am new to boiling - really hot fluid in a confined space, under pressure scares the cr*p out of me. Maybe just a matter of getting used to it, you guys have been using the WG alot longer - you can read the manual all you want but it is no replacement for actual experience.

 

[Pontypool]

Well Mike, honestly, not making this up - heating DHW also, but only for 2 people. Keep in mind I am burning Hickory which has more btu's as it is dense - heavy, even when dry. I had tweaked my old forced air wood burner to run using the same method (off when I'm not home) and using the same amount of wood, except the house was ALWAYS 80F or more and we had the bedroom window open so we could sleep.
Again - no bull here - it was not unusual to have 210F at the plenum directly above the wood burner.
The difference between the wood burner and WG is that now my basement is nice and warm, the old one could not heat the sunroom at all while the WG keeps it at 70F, and the DHW, but about the same amount of wood.

I like the ash pan idea, 3 channels are already there, only need one across the top, should be easy enough.

 

[infinitymike]

Water really doesn't boil at 212* if the pressure is right.
typically in the boiler as the water temp rises so does the pressure, reducing the ability to boil.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html

 

[avc8130]

Some WG owners have welded flat stock on the inside of the ash pan to make a channel and stuffed a rope gasket in there.
I'm sure with your metal fab skills, it would be an easy fix.


Who has a pic of their modification?

Stuff that with a nice rope gasket. MUCH better than the stick-on crap.

ac

 

[avc8130]

Yes I have quickly developed somewhat of a hate for the purge timer. The first time I used it, it didn't occur to me to observe how long it had been shut down for - probably less than 15 minutes. When I turned it - BOOM!
The second time was this morning.

I have a dual function aquastat on the front corner above the handles - actually you can see it in the pic I just posted 2605. One part is the high limit, the other part is the low temp shut off. Bought my WG new from AHS in Oct 2009, but have only started using it Dec 17 2014.

The timer is just like every other rotary timer, it needs a minimum turn to engage. I think it says right on it to "turn past 3". You admitted you turned it right to that initially.

Whenever I use the timer, I turn it all the way to 15 and make SURE I hear the ticking. Then, when I go to leave, I make sure it is at <15 (it should have been counting down afterall) and still ticking.

2009, eh? Is that SS? It's odd because it has a flat roof in the wood chamber.

ac

 

[muncybob]

I rarely leave that purge timer unattended. For me it is used just to turn on the boiler for a reload, but I try to catch it for a reload when it is running already. If she is not running I turn the timer to open the air intake, stuff with wood and manually turn the timer off before I walk away.

The taking down of the horizontal pipe is done so I can get my Soot Eater into the bottom of the chimney for a cleaning, otherwise I do use a Shop Vac with a piece of pvc attached to clean the run after I have scraped any small clinkers that may be in there(which is rare but I want to be sure I don't catch my vac on fire!). The ash tray mod is a good one and one of these days I'll get to it.

 

[infinitymike]

2009, eh? Is that SS? It's odd because it has a flat roof in the wood chamber.

ac

Mine is a 2011, SS and has a flat roof.
what shape is your roof?

 

[infinitymike]

I can't remember the last time i used the purge timer. I always reload when it's running due to a demand.

 

[avc8130]

Mine is a 2011, SS and has a flat roof.
what shape is your roof?

Maybe it's a 100 vs 180 difference? My roof is curved.

ac

 

[infinitymike]

Maybe it's a 100 vs 180 difference? My roof is curved.

ac

I like it, you can stuff more wood in there.

 

[avc8130]

I can't remember the last time i used the purge timer. I always reload when it's running due to a demand.

Same here, and it really is the best plan. I ONLY use the purge if I'm running out the door or going to bed and NEED to load the boiler right then and there. Realistically, it's not that tough to align reloads with the natural cycle for me.

ac

 

[avc8130]

I like it, you can stuff more wood in there.

With a 180, I rarely need to use the space above the door height.

 

[infinitymike]

With a 180, I rarely need to use the space above the door height.

Well Ponty doesn't seem to need much space in his 100, with only 5-6 splits a day, he doesn't even get to the top of the door.

 

[Pontypool]

Nice work on the ash pan AC - I can see myself doing the same.

"Stuff more wood in" ????? Seriously???? Just how much wood exactly are you guys burning?? Before this conversation started I was thinking I was burning more wood than I should be (hence the cyclone heat recovery idea). I actually put a larger load of wood in Saturday night after having the WG down (down to 120F) all day to replace the rope on the blower motor seal. I used 5 smaller splits and some small rounds-just thrown in - fired at 6 pm, wood was gone by midnight - so for me, I am thinking giving the Wg more wood is not extending the burn time. From my years with my old forced air unit - I place my wood in the chamber tightly together in a triangle, split sides facing down and out (towards the walls) touching well in the middle so the fire cannot get to the piece on top - basically positioning the wood so it will NOT burn, it still does, but less surface area burning at the same time. The fire has to work its way through the wood instead of from all sides. With my forced air the object was to get the fire burning around the outside where it heated the walls and preventing the "core" from burning by fitting the pieces together so the fire stays on the outside of the bundle, makes a huge difference on how long the bundle lasts - old habits die hard - I have been doing the same with the WG although that may not be the recommended way.

Struggling to find tubing that I can wrap around the cyclone AND the 6" stove pipe. Refrigeration copper is quite rigid (probably overkill) stainless gas tubing (like my chiller unit) would not be trustworthy with pressure and that much heat. Toying with using rigid 3/4" tube and going up and down on the 6" pipe but thats plan B if all else fails.

According to my purchase docs from Oct 2009 my WG is a E100 SS - that's all I know - maybe they sent me an old one - old stock???

Purge timer - I did turn the timer to 3, but then turned it to 15. It counted down to just before the end point, then stopped - no worries, not using that again - just a bad design, could be improved - not well thought out. I totally agree with just loading when the unit is firing anyway - by far the best way, and safest.

I sealed everything I could find, stove pipe seams, blower motor, taped the fresh air seams - still have a smoky smell - ARRRGGG! I will solve this eventually - but frustrating.

Some pics - re-roping the blower, my basement wood, the stinky bubbles (which have stopped)

Black marker did not work on the SS stovepipe for the laser temp reader - so I dabbed on some dots of the wifes black craft paint - seems to work ok now. The cyclone temp actually varies widely. When firing it is 330F at the top but only 165 at the bottom. So I am looking at wrapping the 4" connector tube, top few inches of the cyclone and the 6" stove pipe for heat recovery.

The AHS rope was done well - except the ends. Looks like it was cut with a dull knife, not joined at all - no wonder it was leaking.

What is a soot eater? not heard of that.

 

[Fred61]

I sealed everything I could find, stove pipe seams, blower motor, taped the fresh air seams - still have a smoky smell - ARRRGGG! I will solve this eventually - but frustrating.

Previously you were describing the smell as a creosote smell and not a smoky smell as stated above. I think they're different. I always had a smoky smell with my WG. It actually smelled like a coal burner. You're more than likely much younger than I so you wouldn't understand the analogy but it was the same odor that would come from the steam locomotives.

 

[Pontypool]

The smell is not as strong now so maybe I have solved some of it and the rest is disipating to a lighter smell - I don't know ????? It is not the nice smokey smell of a wisp of campfire on the breeze, it is a raw, nasty smokey / almost creosote kind of smell. If I stick my nose in the hood I can always smell it there, but not so much from the lower front door. I have the loading door so tight it is hard to close - still with the original silicone gasket, so I am having a hard time to believe the loading door could be leaking. I am still getting a chemical/paint kind of smell from the front and back plates - I assume from the paint off-gassing ( also was much stronger when first firing) - I am sort of waiting for that to taper off to make it easier to identify the smoke smell. Yeah, sorry, cannot identify with coal burning smell - have not experienced that.

 

[muncybob]

Sooteater is a way to clean the chimney using a drill:
http://www.amazon.com/Gardus-RCH205...UTF8&qid=1421090114&sr=8-1&keywords=sooteater

sorta like a weedwacker for the chimney.

 

[Pontypool]

Ahhhh - slick - never seen that before and price is good too. I'll see how cleaning goes in the spring - never cleaned SS pipe before, might get one of those too.

Found some soft general purpose copper tubing today to wrap the cyclone & stove pipe $30. It is only 3/8" OD, but thin wall - 50 feet - not sure if a Grundfos 15-58 could push fluid through such a narrow, long run. Will have to test. could split into 2 parallel runs..................stay tuned..............

 

[avc8130]

It's really hard to quantify how much wood we are burning unless we weight it AND know the species well.

I put wood in my boiler 3x per day. Once in the morning to get me through the day in my unoccupied house (7AM, expected to last 11 hours). Once in the evening (6pm, expected to last 5 hours), to really heat the house while we are home and awake. Once before bed (11pm, expected to last 8 hours), to make sure my family has a comfortable house to sleep in.

The amount of wood I put in is calculated in my brain based on the weather forecast and what I expect from it. Generally the daily load is lightest (especially if it will be sunny) and the night load is heftiest. The evening load depends on if I'm playing "catchup" from the day load being too light, if we plan to bathe the kids and wash dishes, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if my daily usage isn't about equivalent to 2 of your loads. For whatever it is worth, I burned 7.5 cord last winter.

ac

 

[infinitymike]

Yeah, I'm with AC on this one.
Its hard to quantify how much wood any of us put in our units based on number of splits, it really needs to be weight or at the very very least volume with species type.

I made the mistake of splitting VERY small in the beginning and still have about 14 full cord of the skinny stuff. Just this year I switched my splitting size to a much larger size.

I fill the box to the top (with skinny splits) at 10pm.
it's close to empty at 8am, I fill it 1/3 of the way and let my wife add some pieces as needed through the day.
then fill it to top again at 10pm