Dauntless issues

[Oakey]

I told the dealer that they really should tell people interested in the enamel coating that it chips easy so they know going in.
I'm furious that I have not heard back from the dealer or VC not very good for future sales as I'm sure there are many people
on this site and others shopping for new stoves. I had to take things apart to see if I could diagnosis the issue with the damper as this stove is my primary heat source. I discovered the damper rod was bent out of shape. No force was ever used on the damper handle to cause this the rod to bend like it did. I bent the rod back to its original form re-installed and now is working fine. However, I'm afraid this will occur again, heat related distortion maybe? Attached is a pic of the bent damper rod.

View attachment 290734

This is an old thread not sure if your around or someone else could chime in. I had this damper rod issue my self . From day one it felt weird i chalked it up as it being new and totally different than my 20 + year old intrepid that was given to me that i used for the last 3 years. I did my three break in fires and after my first couple burns the damper would not open very easily . Weird thing i did not overfire at all . So i had to back off the nut completely in order for it to work . I can see that the rod is bent when i operate the lever.
My question is what is the procedure to get the rod out before i just start taking things apart.


Do you still have the stove if so how is it working out ?

 

[SkipperH]

This is an old thread not sure if your around or someone else could chime in. I had this damper rod issue my self . From day one it felt weird i chalked it up as it being new and totally different than my 20 + year old intrepid that was given to me that i used for the last 3 years. I did my three break in fires and after my first couple burns the damper would not open very easily . Weird thing i did not overfire at all . So i had to back off the nut completely in order for it to work . I can see that the rod is bent when i operate the lever.
My question is what is the procedure to get the rod out before i just start taking things apart.


Do you still have the stove if so how is it working out ?

Yes, I still have the stove. I complained to the dealer about the bent damper rod so they offered to replace it with the new rod no cost to me. After I bent back the old rod because I had no choice, it worked for a while but started to get hung up more frequently, mainly when cold. The new rod makes the operation a bit smoother but I still on occasion, need to push the damper backward to open the damper if starting the stove cold. I'm almost tempted to remove the damper and weld a nut on the back of the damper plate to see if just a little weight may help open it when cold. It's a bad design in my opinion and Vermont Castings should rectify this on all Dauntless stoves sold.

As far as how the stove operates, it's been a learning experience with this stove due to the catalyst combuster. I was hoping for longer burn times, but I've been disappointed with that.

 

[Oakey]

Yes, I still have the stove. I complained to the dealer about the bent damper rod so they offered to replace it with the new rod no cost to me. After I bent back the old rod because I had no choice, it worked for a while but started to get hung up more frequently, mainly when cold. The new rod makes the operation a bit smoother but I still on occasion, need to push the damper backward to open the damper if starting the stove cold. I'm almost tempted to remove the damper and weld a nut on the back of the damper plate to see if just a little weight may help open it when cold. It's a bad design in my opinion and Vermont Castings should rectify this on all Dauntless stoves sold.

As far as how the stove operates, it's been a learning experience with this stove due to the catalyst combuster. I was hoping for longer burn times, but I've been disappointed with that.

Thanks for getting back to me .
I gotcha definitely a learning curve. I'm working some things out with monitoring a few threads on here . Lots of helpful information . I will admit i have gotten 10 hrs with nice coal bed in the am . I also had it running for 5 days straight last week during the cold snap I had the factory probe on the cat then installed the auber and only had a cat over fire the first night with the new thermometer. My motivation has been to not to ever here the alarm go off. I have got the occasional back puff but my draft is well over the recommended so i have to look at other factors. I am going to reduce the length a bit of my pipe.

How do you go about removing the damper rod if i may ask?

I will admit I was one of the people that wanted to end for end this stove off the front porch but i have alot of positive experience as well which i am happy with, I think with the helpful people here i can get this where it needs to be.

Happy New Year
Thanks

 

[SkipperH]

Thanks for getting back to me .
I gotcha definitely a learning curve. I'm working some things out with monitoring a few threads on here . Lots of helpful information . I will admit i have gotten 10 hrs with nice coal bed in the am . I also had it running for 5 days straight last week during the cold snap I had the factory probe on the cat then installed the auber and only had a cat over fire the first night with the new thermometer. My motivation has been to not to ever here the alarm go off. I have got the occasional back puff but my draft is well over the recommended so i have to look at other factors. I am going to reduce the length a bit of my pipe.

How do you go about removing the damper rod if i may ask?

I will admit I was one of the people that wanted to end for end this stove off the front porch but i have alot of positive experience as well which i am happy with, I think with the helpful people here i can get this where it needs to be.

Happy New Year
Thanks

Sure, steps are as follows:
Ref. Parts diagram link - https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/serviceParts/Dauntless.pdf

1) I would recommend removing the Damper handle (item 5), the cat and rear heat shields (items 56, 61 and 62). Although the Damper handle definitely needs to be removed, I initially took the heat shields off as well thinking I could gain access to the Damper rod (item 7). It may have helped in the removal of the Damper rod, sorry not 100% certain whether the Damper rod can be removed with the rear heat shield (item 56) in place.
2) Remove the 2 Andirons (item 17)
3) Remove left and right brick clips (items 37 & 38) and carefully remove the 4 fire bricks, 2 on each side.
4) Remove bolts and clips (item 43) holding the rear Refractory brick (item 45) in place, both sides.
5) Carefully remove the Refractory brick as to not damage it or the Refractory gasket (item 42). NOTE: the Damper frame (item 9) which must be removed to gain access to the Damper rod sits behind the Refractory brick.
6) Remove 2 bolts (left and right side of Damper frame) and lower the frame to gain access to Damper rod. NOTE: the Damper rod retainers (item 8) may need to be removed to help in removal of Damper rod.

A 10 hour burn time is great.
What are you getting for burn times during the day, for example, with the primary air closed down 3-4 clicks from wide open?
What kind of wood are you using? Do you know the moisture content?
Thanks.

 

[Oakey]

Sure, steps are as follows:
Ref. Parts diagram link - https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/serviceParts/Dauntless.pdf

1) I would recommend removing the Damper handle (item 5), the cat and rear heat shields (items 56, 61 and 62). Although the Damper handle definitely needs to be removed, I initially took the heat shields off as well thinking I could gain access to the Damper rod (item 7). It may have helped in the removal of the Damper rod, sorry not 100% certain whether the Damper rod can be removed with the rear heat shield (item 56) in place.
2) Remove the 2 Andirons (item 17)
3) Remove left and right brick clips (items 37 & 38) and carefully remove the 4 fire bricks, 2 on each side.
4) Remove bolts and clips (item 43) holding the rear Refractory brick (item 45) in place, both sides.
5) Carefully remove the Refractory brick as to not damage it or the Refractory gasket (item 42). NOTE: the Damper frame (item 9) which must be removed to gain access to the Damper rod sits behind the Refractory brick.
6) Remove 2 bolts (left and right side of Damper frame) and lower the frame to gain access to Damper rod. NOTE: the Damper rod retainers (item 8) may need to be removed to help in removal of Damper rod.

A 10 hour burn time is great.
What are you getting for burn times during the day, for example, with the primary air closed down 3-4 clicks from wide open?
What kind of wood are you using? Do you know the moisture content?
Thanks.

Great thanks for that info. It is functioning right now just kind of hangs up a bit and i can see that its warped and don't want it to become an issue when burning.

During the day i have not really packed it like i would and run it as low as at night. Which would be about 1/4 from closed on my stove.

For my times I had it running during the day for extended periods i was probably 1/2-3/4 full most of the time. So, I'd say 6-8 hrs. depending. At the 3 clicks. I plan to start doing my night procedure for the days when im at work. It's not super cold where i am so i do a lot of cold starts when i get home at 4 pm .

My wood I am burning is Red Oak and Black Locust. Some maple. I have tested at some under 15% some 21% Some 2 some 3 years old.



Thanks again,

 

[Ant428]

Dauntless owners, is this what you are experiencing when you get smoke smell in the room? Has anyone resolved this issue?
I also hear a pretty noticeable "pop" sound (sound not in video).

I have the same problem. It backpuffs. This stove has been nothing but problems

 

[begreen]

Backpuffing is often a sign of weak draft, poorly seasoned wood, or turning down the air too soon. Sometimes it's a combo.

 

[Ant428]

Backpuffing is often a sign of weak draft, poorly seasoned wood, or turning down the air too soon. Sometimes it's a combo.

The fire goes great with the damper open. But once I close it, it sucks the flames into the back of the stove, then they go out and I get that vacuum sound and a backpuffs. It sounds like this stove is notorious for this from reviews.

 

[begreen]

Does the stove have a catalyst now or is it being run without it?

What is the the height of the flue system from stove top to chimney cap?

Has the wood been resplit and tested for internal moisture content?

 

[Ant428]

Does the stove have a catalyst now or is it being run without it?

What is the the height of the flue system from stove top to chimney cap?

Has the wood been resplit and tested for internal moisture co

Yes I have the cat installed
It only works when you hear the afterburner sound. If that stops abruptly, I know the backpuff is coming. I get that torch should in the back when closing the damper and no smoke from the chimney.
Wood is around 15-16% most of the time. Never above 18 thus far
The chimney is 16'

 

[begreen]

Check the cat to make sure it's not starting to partially plug up with ash.

Just as a test, take some 2x4 cuttoffs and mix them 50/50 with the firewood.

This stove needs decent draft. Is it venting into a 6" metal chimney or chimney liner all the way? Are there any turns or is it straight up? Would it be possible to add 2-3 ft to the chimney?

 

[Ant428]

Check the cat to make sure it's not starting to partially plug up with ash.

Just as a test, take some 2x4 cuttoffs and mix them 50/50 with the firewood.

This stove needs decent draft. Is it venting into a 6" metal chimney or chimney liner all the way? Are there any turns or is it straight up? Would it be possible to add 2-3 ft to the chimney?

Hi, the cat is clean. The 16' is the class A. I do have a 90 through a wall and a 90 to go up outside.

This chimney isn't made anymore, can't add a piece

What are the 2x4 cutoffs for?

 

[begreen]

Hi, the cat is clean. The 16' is the class A. I do have a 90 through a wall and a 90 to go up outside.

This chimney isn't made anymore, can't add a piece

What are the 2x4 cutoffs for?

The two 90º turns plus a colder outside chimney are reducing draft. That's not helping things. It like lopping off 4 ft from the total height which is already borderline for this stove.

The 2x4 cutoffs were to introduce wood that is around 10% mc to the mix.

 

[Eman85]

The fire goes great with the damper open. But once I close it, it sucks the flames into the back of the stove, then they go out and I get that vacuum sound and a backpuffs. It sounds like this stove is notorious for this from reviews.

My stove is much older but similar and it will back puff. It only back puffs for me when the fire is wanting air, if I open the primary air the slightest bit the back puff will stop. But I have to watch cat temps as they can get very high with the air sometimes. my stove will back puff even with the damper open and not using the cat if I starve it for air. I think other stoves have it happen but don't introduce smoke into the room. The top load griddle seems to be easy for the back puff to lift and puff the smoke out.

 

[begreen]

Yes, a back puff can happen when the flame goes out and there is only smoke in the firebox. Then when the thermostat opens admitting more air and a flame rekindles, it can ignite the unburnt wood gases and result in a small explosion.

Ant428 to test the draft issue, on a calm day, remove the chimney cap and shove in a 3 or 4' length of cheap 6" warm air duct pipe into the chimney top. That will provide a temporary chimney extension. See if the stove performs notably better.

 

[vernorz]

I have the same problem. It backpuffs. This stove has been nothing but problems

On my second season with the Dauntless, first with the cat installed, and I've experienced back puffs on occasion. A previous member mentioned making sure there is at least a small active flame at all times, and I can say this is absolutely true in my experience as well. When back puffs occur, it will happen when I close the damper too soon or lower the primary air too much or too soon. Letting freshly loaded wood catch and burn for a little bit before closing the damper always helps with preventing back puffing, then keeping the primary air fully open to make sure the flames continue. Once that's verified, then I'll start closing the primary 1 click at a time, usually end up at most 3 clicks from fully open, occasionally 4 if there is a really thick bed of coals that can keep a small active flame.

I run into issues with quickly rising cat temps when there is a really nice bed of coals, active cat, new splits added, and no active flame. It can happen with the primary air all the way open or turned town. Too much fuel for the cat. In this situation, I open the bypass to get the flames going and make sure the primary is all the way open before closing the bypass again once flames are established. Again, keep the primary air all the way open for active flames before attempting to turn things down. Occasionally I'll shift the load around with my poker to get more flames.

Like Jmorg, I don't even think about closing the bypass until the STT are 550-600 on a cold start. My cold start procedure as of late:

1. Crib stack kindling just above the height of the cat cover. I usually use 2x lumber 1/2"-1" thick, with the bottom 2 pieces being 2-3" splits. Top down burn. Primary air fully open.

2. Let this burn down until coals, usually about 10 minutes, gets the pipe temps to about 450 (single wall), STT about 350-375.

3. Push coals to back, add 3-4 small splits(3" max.) against back wall. Primary air fully open. Burn until coals, STT usually up to 450.

4. Spread coals around, add 3 more splits(around 4"), Let STT hit 550, close bypass, primary air fully open. STT and pipe temps start to drop, cat temps start to rise. Burn to coals.

5. Repeat step 4. Can sometimes turn primary air back 1 or 2 clicks after flames are established and cat is in active zone.

6. Once a good coal bed has been established, and cat temp has dropped to around 600, I'll load the stove about 1/2 full, primary air fully open, let the cat temps hit 1000, then start turning the primary air back 1 click at a time until there is a small active flame, and adjust accordingly. Like I said, usually 3 clicks from fully open. By this time, STT and pipe temps have been pretty stable. STT around 425-450 and pipe temps right around 300. Cat temps haven't been getting much above 1100.
I'll usually get about 4 hours with a load like this before I reload, and Start at Step 4 depending on cat and STT temps.

I've had good success with this procedure over the past couple weeks, with temps in the high teens and low 20s upon startup. Full disclosure, I don't load the stove full, I don't burn overnight and I don't like to leave the stove unattended for long, unless I'm burning some Bio Bricks, which are much more predictable in behavior.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I have the same problem. It backpuffs. This stove has been nothing but problems

You are probably borderline on draft, possibly using slightly damp wood, and have a cat installed.
If you remove any one of these three from the equation, you likely wont have the backpuff.
I'm fairly certain VC should have told people that they need a minimum of 18-20' of stove pipe for the proper draft with the cat in, and 15' with it out.

 

[sargeott]

You are probably borderline on draft, possibly using slightly damp wood, and have a cat installed.
If you remove any one of these three from the equation, you likely wont have the backpuff.
I'm fairly certain VC should have told people that they need a minimum of 18-20' of stove pipe for the proper draft with the cat in, and 15' with it out.

I only have 15' of chimney pipe, running a cat and my wood typically is 20% or less.
The only time I ever get back puffs is:
on a warm stove (not HOT)
coals in the bottom and I fill it full with fresh wood
Engage the cat and bypass closed right after the reload
and have primary air less than 50%.

I have to really screw up the process to make the stove burp smoke.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I only have 15' of chimney pipe, running a cat and my wood typically is 20% or less.
The only time I ever get back puffs is:
on a warm stove (not HOT)
coals in the bottom and I fill it full with fresh wood
Engage the cat and bypass closed right after the reload
and have primary air less than 50%.

I have to really screw up the process to make the stove burp smoke.

yea that'll do it. That's basically what I experienced, and before knowing what it was - it was a bit alarming. But I was in a hurry and figured eh, it'll catch it's all fairly warm enough. I let my fresh loads catch with damper open and air on high now for a good bit before closing the damper. Sometimes it's only 10 minutes, sometimes 30+

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I only have 15' of chimney pipe, running a cat and my wood typically is 20% or less.
The only time I ever get back puffs is:
on a warm stove (not HOT)
coals in the bottom and I fill it full with fresh wood
Engage the cat and bypass closed right after the reload
and have primary air less than 50%.

I have to really screw up the process to make the stove burp smoke.

I agree with this.. and thanks for posting.. like the some of the people here and @GrumpyDad.. none of these are straight shots up.. in the case of most of the people here they have 90s and 45s on the stovepipe.. really reducing draft and creating issues.. I scratch my head when I read things like this.. Somehow its the stoves fault that the installer needed to put 90s on it..

The end user also has to be involved and to take some responsibility for the installation that they approved and paid for as well as the fuel thats put in it.

 

[SkipperH]

When I had the VC Dauntless (for a few wood burning seasons), the recommendations / suggestions here were much appreciated. The boxes were all checked concerning set-up, wood moisture content, chimney elbows and min height requirements yet there was no consistency with this stove, I was consistent in my approach to running it but never experienced a repetitive operation. When I connected my new Jotul F45 to the same exact set-up as with the Dauntless consistency and predictability was achieved. Same operator, same chimney, stove pipe / layout and wood, the only “known" removed from this unfortunate problematic equation was the Dauntless itself. This, in my opinion, cannot be ignored.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

When I had the VC Dauntless (for a few wood burning seasons), the recommendations / suggestions here were much appreciated. The boxes were all checked concerning set-up, wood moisture content, chimney elbows and min height requirements yet there was no consistency with this stove, I was consistent in my approach to running it but never experienced a repetitive operation. When I connected my new Jotul F45 to the same exact set-up as with the Dauntless consistency and predictability was achieved. Same operator, same chimney, stove pipe / layout and wood, the only “known" removed from this unfortunate problematic equation was the Dauntless itself. This, in my opinion, cannot be ignored.

Sure you can say that.. but we both know this.. They are definitely not the same stoves.. The Dauntless is a down draft stove.. the Jotul is not.. the Dauntless will require MORE draft.. The Jotul will require less.

So in all honesty.. your providing my point.. originally.. you didn't have enough draft for the Dauntless.. you switched a stove that required more draft for a stove that required less.. and the stove that is requiring less draft is running fine. So.. DRAFT was your issue.. not your stove..

 

[SkipperH]

Sure you can say that.. but we both know this.. They are definitely not the same stoves.. The Dauntless is a down draft stove.. the Jotul is not.. the Dauntless will require MORE draft.. The Jotul will require less.

So in all honesty.. your providing my point.. originally.. you didn't have enough draft for the Dauntless.. you switched a stove that required more draft for a stove that required less.. and the stove that is requiring less draft is running fine. So.. DRAFT was your issue.. not your stove..

I disagree, I’ve got an 18 foot tall steel insulated chimney, the Dauntless manual I believe tests with a 15 foot tall chimney. Lack of draft was not my issue.

 

[Todd]

Pretty sure all stoves are tested on a 15’ chimney so I’m sure manufacturers probably fine tune them for optimum performance at that height. That 15’ height in a lab could equate to something else in the real world so I would also agree that it seems the VC stoves could benefit from a bit taller chimney than a typical non cat. Should find and read the EPA report test for VC stoves may be a few pointers in there.

https://downloads.hearthnhome.com/communications/EPA%20Test%20Report%20Summaries/Vermont%20Castings/Dauntless_Catalytic_WebsiteReport.pdf

 

[Eman85]

@SkipperH I'm glad it worked out for you. I've had my VC for a long time. We love the look of it and the top load straight up chimney. Given all of that if I was to buy another stove, which I most likely won't because I'm too cheap, it wouldn't be another VC and possibly not a cat stove.