Comparing stoves for a new install.

[Nealm66]

I’m curious how two stoves burning the same amount of wood in the same amount of time can be so different in heat output? Is it the secondary tubes that create the additional heat?

 

[bholler]

Hey fair enough! My wife thinks I’m nuts using too many different stoves lol! Told her I am just trying to narrow down to the perfect one

I feel I can help my customers better the more stoves I have experience running

 

[bholler]

I’m curious how two stoves burning the same amount of wood in the same amount of time can be so different in heat output? Is it the secondary tubes that create the additional heat?

There are hundreds of variables that go into how a stove transfers heat to the house. My thought is that the whole firebox runs at a much higher temp in a tube stove meaning more surface area is hotter. On the bk you have a really hot spot over the cat but the rest of the stove is cooler. Also running on 8 hour cycles the bk has a higher exhaust temp.

 

[Highbeam]

There are hundreds of variables that go into how a stove transfers heat to the house. My thought is that the whole firebox runs at a much higher temp in a tube stove meaning more surface area is hotter. On the bk you have a really hot spot over the cat but the rest of the stove is cooler. Also running on 8 hour cycles the bk has a higher exhaust temp.

The BK really does puke a lot of heat up the stack when running balls out. Efficiency is lower at those higher burn rates for sure. But there’s more to it than just temperature of stack gasses, there’s also the flow rate of those gasses which is much higher on a noncat with all of those big open intakes. I propose that there is a balance where a stove puking high amounts of cooler flue gasses is less efficient than a stove releasing a small amount of hotter gasses.

There’s no magic, if both stoves burn the same amount of wood in the same amount of time and are roughly the same efficiency then the same amount of heat is delivered to the home.

In a home I very much prefer a constant output than a peaky burn cycle and I especially enjoy the ability to adjust that burn rate over a wide range to match my needs.

 

[bholler]

The BK really does puke a lot of heat up the stack when running balls out. Efficiency is lower at those higher burn rates for sure. But there’s more to it than just temperature of stack gasses, there’s also the flow rate of those gasses which is much higher on a noncat with all of those big open intakes. I propose that there is a balance where a stove puking high amounts of cooler flue gasses is less efficient than a stove releasing a small amount of hotter gasses.

There’s no magic, if both stoves burn the same amount of wood in the same amount of time and are roughly the same efficiency then the same amount of heat is delivered to the home.

In a home I very much prefer a constant output than a peaky burn cycle and I especially enjoy the ability to adjust that burn rate over a wide range to match my needs.

Not all tube stoves are created equal either. Some are far better at transferring heat to the house. And some don't have near as much unregulated air as others

 

[Highbeam]

Not all tube stoves are created equal either. Some are far better at transferring heat to the house. And some don't have near as much unregulated air as others

For sure. As reflected by their efficiency ratings on the epa list. Pretty entertaining how some of the high dollar stoves puke so much heat up the flue that they don’t even qualify for the tax credit.

There is quite a range but we all know that 5% efficiency difference doesn’t amount to much in real life.

 

[Nealm66]

It would be super cool if you (bholler) would try the king model to see if you are able to run at a lower setting and utilize the cat . Maybe we can do a go fund me to pay for the experiment. I’m struggling with our mild weather again with the princess so there’s no way I want to try the king in my house

 

[bholler]

It would be super cool if you (bholler) would try the king model to see if you are able to run at a lower setting and utilize the cat . Maybe we can do a go fund me to pay for the experiment. I’m struggling with our mild weather again with the princess so there’s no way I want to try the king in my house

I have no intentions on installing an 8" stack it wouldn't fit in my masonry chimney with insulation so it would mean running a prefab up through my living room. That's not going to happen

 

[Highbeam]

It would be super cool if you (bholler) would try the king model to see if you are able to run at a lower setting and utilize the cat . Maybe we can do a go fund me to pay for the experiment. I’m struggling with our mild weather again with the princess so there’s no way I want to try the king in my house

I’m struggling with mild weather right now too. It was so nice when it was cold enough to just keep the stove running on low with 24 hour matchless reload cycles.

 

[Nealm66]

I have no intentions on installing an 8" stack it wouldn't fit in my masonry chimney with insulation so it would mean running a prefab up through my living room. That's not going to happen

Bummer. It would have been interesting

 

[bholler]

Bummer. It would have been interesting

Especially when my house isn't that big. It doesn't need a monster stove to heat it.

 

[ABMax24]

The BK really does puke a lot of heat up the stack when running balls out. Efficiency is lower at those higher burn rates for sure. But there’s more to it than just temperature of stack gasses, there’s also the flow rate of those gasses which is much higher on a noncat with all of those big open intakes. I propose that there is a balance where a stove puking high amounts of cooler flue gasses is less efficient than a stove releasing a small amount of hotter gasses.

I think there's a lot of merit to that. I wonder if there's a practical way to measure flue gas flow?

I guess flue gas flow wouldn't even need to be measured, residual O2 and flue temp should give a pretty good indication of efficiency.

 

[Nealm66]

I guess my interest would have been more about efficiency. Even though you’re house isn’t that big, something, wether it’s climate or insulation, is eliminating the real

Especially when my house isn't that big. It doesn't need a monster stove to heat it.

I guess my interest would have been to see if you would be able to use the benefits of the cat more. Maybe it’s a big stove for your house but maybe it would have saved you some firewood and reload times and not have to rely on any other heat. This is the reason why I suggested the king over the princess but only someone in your predicament and your skill sets would have the ability to really be able to give an absolute answer to that scenario without some unknown variable throwing in doubt

 

[Nealm66]

Lol , why doesn’t it let you erase a response?

 

[bholler]

Lol , why doesn’t it let you erase a response?

You should be able to

 

[bholler]

I guess my interest would have been more about efficiency. Even though you’re house isn’t that big, something, wether it’s climate or insulation, is eliminating the real

I guess my interest would have been to see if you would be able to use the benefits of the cat more. Maybe it’s a big stove for your house but maybe it would have saved you some firewood and reload times and not have to rely on any other heat. This is the reason why I suggested the king over the princess but only someone in your predicament and your skill sets would have the ability to really be able to give an absolute answer to that scenario without some unknown variable throwing in doubt

I get what you are saying and would gladly try one out if it wasn't for the issue of stack size.

 

[Highbeam]

I think there's a lot of merit to that. I wonder if there's a practical way to measure flue gas flow?

I guess flue gas flow wouldn't even need to be measured, residual O2 and flue temp should give a pretty good indication of efficiency.

Residual O2 and flue temps give you clues about combustion efficiency but overall efficiency includes heat transfer efficiency. In the past the marketing departments invented all sorts of efficiency tricks to say, for instance, their appliance was 90% efficient. When total efficiency (btu delivered/btu input) was in the 70s. They were 80% efficient at misleading people!

The epa list does a good job of providing efficiency numbers for average buyers for comparison sake.

 

[ABMax24]

Residual O2 and flue temps give you clues about combustion efficiency but overall efficiency includes heat transfer efficiency. In the past the marketing departments invented all sorts of efficiency tricks to say, for instance, their appliance was 90% efficient. When total efficiency (btu delivered/btu input) was in the 70s. They were 80% efficient at misleading people!

The epa list does a good job of providing efficiency numbers for average buyers for comparison sake.

I definitely get that, I'm talking about in regards to a stove nerd wanting to know the peak efficiency range of their stove and building an O2 sensor and temp probe setup on a small pi board to calculate efficiency.

In a perfect world with a known fuel residual 02 and stack temps give accurate efficiency numbers, this method is used all the time for boilers, especially natural gas fueled ones.

But I guess that answers my own question, wood is too variable a fuel to work well with this system. Moisture content in particular would throw off the readings a lot, but even the difference between softwood and hardwood could invalidate results.

 

[Nealm66]

Lol, wow

 

[EvertonPete]

 

[EvertonPete]

We got our Princess installed today! Loving it so far. Was a bit concerned that the temp gauge is staying pegged. I didn’t throw in a full load to start with. Been adding a couple logs at a time every few hours. Loving room and kitchen are nice and cozy, bathroom and such on opposite side of the house is a cooler, but I hope a stovetop fan can move more air in that direction. Definitely milder temps around here at the moment, around 35-40.

 

[Nealm66]

Nice. I like the legs. I got the demo model that came with the pedestal. I should have just ordered one with the legs. That looks really good

 

[EvertonPete]

When you guys turn up the heat to clean the glass, do you open the bypass to not overfire ?

 

[Nealm66]

Nope, just open it up and hope it’s cold outside

 

[EvertonPete]

I loaded up about 2/3 full before bed last night, turned it down to about 3 o clock. Still had big pieces going 8 hrs later.
I’ll be honest, the novelty of it right now has me plopped in front of it, turning up the airflow enough to have flames. Is there any No-No’s so as not to damage this thing? I don’t mind being less than efficient with the wood for those times I want a light show, but want to make sure I’m not overdoing it.