350* is within tolerance for a good running gasser. My son's Econoburn will run between 280-350 depending on circumstances. The other kid with the Garn 2000 averages around 250-300 through a burn.
Classic vs any gasser
- Thread starter woodywoodchucker
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hoogie said:
In my 6th season, and I've NEVER spent a dime on splitter gas.
You seem to have missed the point of the OP... can't see where we are comparing the location of the hydronic, but rather the design of the hydronic.
IMHO part of the problem comes from the term 'gassifier'. I prefer to think of it as 'secondary combustion'. My unit for example is marketed as a 'gassifier', but there does not appear to be any introduction of air into the secondary combustion chamber. So I think of mine as some where between a traditional OWB and a modern gassifier.
And if the bolded comment was in reference to me, you just let your lack of accurate info slip
. As stated, I'm in my 6th season of burning Outdoors.I went with a Harman SF260 coal/wood (better for coal then wood) boiler because it was 2 years old and i got it for 1500.00 the other issue i had is i live in the city so no OWB. I have a Triangle tube 250k NG boiler that i am preheating the water for with the wood. I wanted to install a gasifier and storage but i just don't have the room for storage in my boiler room for 500gal let alone 1500gal i would need i looked at putting it in the garage but the insurance company was saying no without building a fire wall and outside air because cars go in the garage by the time i got done doing that i would not have a garage anymore that i could park the kubota in and that was not going to happen.
So that said i turn off the heat when i leave for work and start a fire when i get home and burn all night. I only fire up the wood boiler below 40F and run it pretty hard the whole time so it does not idle much if it is above 40F out it seem to idle a lot more and start producing charcoal out of the wood with lots of smoke.
The Outside of the exhaust tube with my fluke IR sits around 400F and up by where it goes into the double wall pipe in the clay liner is around 360F i wrapped everything if a 1" blanket to keep all the heat in the tube and also filled the clay liner around the double wall pipe to keep the EGT as high as possible.
I know i am not going to get as much heat out of my classic boiler as a gasser but cost and space made the call for me. So far all i have been burning is 15% ash most of the splits are 6" across or smaller i have not loaded more then 1/2 full yet.
In terms of smoke i really don't get much. I get some when i load or if the boiler goes into idle mode for a little bit. I run the water temps between 140-170F Most of my neighbors with normal fireplaces produce much more smoke then i do so i don't thinking having a old school boiler is a bad thing for me.
I would like to burn some coal in it sometime just to see how that goes plus from what the manual says that helps clean the creosote out of the boiler.
So i voted "gasser" because i think it is a better system but it does not fit for everyone.
So that said i turn off the heat when i leave for work and start a fire when i get home and burn all night. I only fire up the wood boiler below 40F and run it pretty hard the whole time so it does not idle much if it is above 40F out it seem to idle a lot more and start producing charcoal out of the wood with lots of smoke.
The Outside of the exhaust tube with my fluke IR sits around 400F and up by where it goes into the double wall pipe in the clay liner is around 360F i wrapped everything if a 1" blanket to keep all the heat in the tube and also filled the clay liner around the double wall pipe to keep the EGT as high as possible.
I know i am not going to get as much heat out of my classic boiler as a gasser but cost and space made the call for me. So far all i have been burning is 15% ash most of the splits are 6" across or smaller i have not loaded more then 1/2 full yet.
In terms of smoke i really don't get much. I get some when i load or if the boiler goes into idle mode for a little bit. I run the water temps between 140-170F Most of my neighbors with normal fireplaces produce much more smoke then i do so i don't thinking having a old school boiler is a bad thing for me.
I would like to burn some coal in it sometime just to see how that goes plus from what the manual says that helps clean the creosote out of the boiler.
So i voted "gasser" because i think it is a better system but it does not fit for everyone.
martyinmi said:
Firstly, I have made no claim on the 600-800 degree temps so I do not need to provide anything.
I simply told you Heaterman's statements or advice are in the UPPER ECHELON of factuality, as a general statement, and I was implying a bit more respect maybe warranted.
Obviously that barbed you so now you misdirected back to me. Understandable and I have no beef with it, since like you said we are all this boat together and I respect your position.
Secondly I am not trying to convince anyone and I do not consider any of my comments(which were clearly stated as opinion)offensive.
If thus taken, apologies are extended, but I do not think people are that thin skinned or really care about what I have to say, but a discussion should be beneficial.
Now the reason why there is no testing is twofold; there is on real money in it, and worse if it was "real" and not paid by manufacturer's it would shock most intelligent or inquiring people out there. Your reply to me, just validates my point further..there is no real testing to rely on, but logical and analytical judgement is a "test" we should all be using in our decisions.
Again if I am wrong(and I maybe) Heaterman knows a hell of a lot more about the testing issue than most, so I am open to hear some data.
In regards to the life span, I was referring to the average OWB user, whom I see daily in my extremely rural area and I do not need a lab to analyze degrees of rust and rot...my eyes tell me what I need to know. I also see lots of "abandoned yard sculptures" (not old), that show signs of fire damage, rot and warping.
This in NOT a blanket statement for all OWBs, just the ones that go in on the cheap, are made cheaply and are burning same day bucked hemlock from the back 40, 24-7 and are NEVER maintained. Sadly a high percentile is following this model and that was my reference.
More power to the OWB users that are running their units efficiently and are getting more than 10-15 years from them(what is that percentage, I honestly would like to know). I also know that most claims of 20 year life expectancy on some OWBs are quite the overreach, but I guess it can be done if one dedicated the hours needed in maintenance(instead of spending the hours in splitting toothpicks, as was mentioned).
Now regarding Thermodynamics, or the "power(dynamics from the root word dynamis(strength)) of heated(thermo-thermic) energy", again
I do need not a lab to tell me that a stack temp of 600-800 during a full blast burn(not the entire burn) produces efficient heat transfer to the to the thermal conductive element of heat exchange in any boiler, nor do I need to diatribe on the average burn cycle and idling of an OWB. The term "idling" is self explanatory for me, regarding efficient heat transfer or efficiency of any kind(IMHO alone), as I clearly stated in my post. Again there is a degree of scale and variances in operation, but I suspect the averages are on the down side of the percentiles.
Here is a link regarding the issue, from Michigan:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/OWB_fact_sheet_3_reasons_11-10-05_142298_7.pdf
Again....it is my opinion and I maybe wrong, but I value discussions and knowledge so I am open to all corrections and I accept fault when I may have misstated or opined incorrectly.
I think OWBs are fine and great if manufactured, sold, used, maintained in a responsible manner.
Best Regards
Scott.
This is probably getting too far away from the OP, but I can't resist asking about what you said about turning off the heat all day - do you mean all day EVERY day? The reason I'm asking is that we frequently shut down our gasser during the day, but only on days when either solar gain will heat the house, or the outside temp is high enough to minimize heat loss. Although there have been many days when our boiler is down most of the day, if we tried to shut down on a cold cloudy day, it would get cold inside in a hurry (lots of glass is a double-edged sword). And, because there isn't any surplus emitter capacity in our house, it takes quite a bit of time to bring it back up. So, if your heat is really off every day; do you have great insulation/little glass, over-sized emitters (to bring it back up quickly), or something else about your place that makes it easy to reheat? And, just a comment about your 15% ash and burning technique - it doesn't get any better, and I would have no problem being your next door neighboor ;-PJrCRXHF said:
My system is similar, I also have a Triangle Tube, but I am hoping it will just be back up. It is a 400k unit running Propane so when it is on it works out at $10 an hour!
I think there is a lot to be said for meeting most of your load with wood and using fossil to top up/back up. The exact percentage will vary.
Now the Triangle Tube is vented in plastic, when I see a wood boiler vented this way then I will believe some of the efficiency numbers you see banded around.
I think there is a lot to be said for meeting most of your load with wood and using fossil to top up/back up. The exact percentage will vary.
Now the Triangle Tube is vented in plastic, when I see a wood boiler vented this way then I will believe some of the efficiency numbers you see banded around.
Exactly David. Generally speaking anything over 88% means you're in condensing territory with flue temp under 200 degrees. Condensing in a wood boiler is something to be avoided at any cost. Very ugly things happen.
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