Chimney fire in 5 months of using our new VC Dauntless....

[Woodsplitter67]

Dauntless owner's manual says to place the thermometer in the middle of the griddle. FWIW.

Yes most manuals say this.. its better to put it back on the griddle as it gets warmer there faster and has a higher temperature.. this will reduce the chance of warping the damper housing

 

[Woodsplitter67]

@a59cheffy .. please disregard the above post from @GrumpyDad .. he never adds anything of value to a thread nor follows any advice from experienced stove operators.. his name says it all.. hes grumpy and loves to complain.. again no solid advice from that person.. if he posts here don't take anything he says as quality advice..

 

[Catesy]

@a59cheffy .. please disregard the above post from @GrumpyDad .. he never adds anything of value to a thread nor follows any advice from experienced stove operators.. his name says it all.. hes grumpy and loves to complain.. again no solid advice from that person.. if he posts here don't take anything he says as quality advice..

He happens to be right. You're not running a Dauntless Flexburn. The stove seriously flawed.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

He happens to be right. You're not running a Dauntless Flexburn. The stove seriously flawed.

please show me where I said the stove was perfect.. that the issue was not with the stove.. Burning the stove WITH OUT THE CAT IS A MISTAKE.. it adds to the creosote issue if your turning the air back.. Pretty much any experienced stove operator knows this...

 

[Diabel]

Let me get the popcorn 🍿😝

 

[Catesy]

please show me where I said the stove was perfect.. that the issue was not with the stove.. Burning the stove WITH OUT THE CAT IS A MISTAKE.. it adds to the creosote issue if your turning the air back.. Pretty much any experienced stove operator knows this...

The Dauntless "Flexburn" is designed to run with or without the cat, so they say. My flue says otherwise.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

The Dauntless "Flexburn" is designed to run with or without the cat, so they say. My flue says otherwise.

Ok.. no problem.. Ill help you out... My stove is a flex burn also.. I can burn with ot with out the cat and have done so on many occasions without causing a chimney fire or causing creosote build up.. A.. my wood is super dry which helps alot B... YOU CANT BURN IT AND SMOLDER THE WOOD.. aka cutting the air back to much.. if you read the advice above and your probably should be doing this yourself.. dont pack the stove with wood and dial the air back.. You can do as described above.. put some wood in it and dont go more then half way back with the air.. the stove should be burning pretty clean ... Again.. I do this myself with my own stove.. with no issues.. The Dauntless, Encore, Defiant, are all flexburn and you can burn with or without the cat.. All to many people take that as you can remove the cat and smolder a fire day after day night after nigh and not have a creosote issue.. @GrumpyDad did this and it only took him 2 months for his first chimney fire.. I have an encore.. my stove runs perfectly and has for many years.. If I ran my stove like many on here.. I would have burned my house down by now.. There are things that you can do and cant do.. common sense helps alot.. anytime you smolder a fire you produce somke.. aka unburnt fuel.. which turns into creosote.. if your combusters not in to burn it.. what do you think is going to happen.. do you think its going to Magically dissappear.. So yes the manual is correct.. you can burn without the combuster.. Any experienced stove operator should know this and not smolder the fire without a catalyst in..

 

[bholler]

@a59cheffy .. please disregard the above post from @GrumpyDad .. he never adds anything of value to a thread nor follows any advice from experienced stove operators.. his name says it all.. hes grumpy and loves to complain.. again no solid advice from that person.. if he posts here don't take anything he says as quality advice..

The fact is he is trying to get a very temperamental stove to work. Many many other people have been struggling with these new stoves as well as older downdraft Vermont castings stoves.

 

[bholler]

Ok.. no problem.. Ill help you out... My stove is a flex burn also.. I can burn with ot with out the cat and have done so on many occasions without causing a chimney fire or causing creosote build up.. A.. my wood is super dry which helps alot B... YOU CANT BURN IT AND SMOLDER THE WOOD.. aka cutting the air back to much.. if you read the advice above and your probably should be doing this yourself.. dont pack the stove with wood and dial the air back.. You can do as described above.. put some wood in it and dont go more then half way back with the air.. the stove should be burning pretty clean ... Again.. I do this myself with my own stove.. with no issues.. The Dauntless, Encore, Defiant, are all flexburn and you can burn with or without the cat.. All to many people take that as you can remove the cat and smolder a fire day after day night after nigh and not have a creosote issue.. @GrumpyDad did this and it only took him 2 months for his first chimney fire.. I have an encore.. my stove runs perfectly and has for many years.. If I ran my stove like many on here.. I would have burned my house down by now.. There are things that you can do and cant do.. common sense helps alot.. anytime you smolder a fire you produce somke.. aka unburnt fuel.. which turns into creosote.. if your combusters not in to burn it.. what do you think is going to happen.. do you think its going to Magically dissappear.. So yes the manual is correct.. you can burn without the combuster.. Any experienced stove operator should know this and not smolder the fire without a catalyst in..

How is it that vc gets away with selling stoves than can be smouldered so badly when all other manufacturers have to have the minimum air set so they can't be smouldered? I get that you like your stove and have figured out how to make it work well for you. Unfortunately many many other people havnt had that experience with stoves like these

 

[Woodsplitter67]

How is it that vc gets away with selling stoves than can be smouldered so badly when all other manufacturers have to have the minimum air set so they can't be smouldered? I get that you like your stove and have figured out how to make it work well for you. Unfortunately many many other people havnt had that experience with stoves like these

Ok...and Im giving the OP solid advice on helping him operate his stove.. The op had had some issues.. is the forum for complaints only .. I thought the object was to help share our experience with the less experienced.. VC really shouldn't be selling these stove without the catalyst.. all to many dont understand how to operate it properly..

 

[bholler]

Ok...and Im giving the OP solid advice on helping him operate his stove.. The op had had some issues.. is the forum for complaints only .. I thought the object was to help share our experience with the less experienced.. VC really shouldn't be selling these stove without the catalyst.. all to many dont understand how to operate it properly..

No I am very happy you are here to help people figure out how to get VC stoves to work. But the fact is many people have very valid complaints about them so I am not going to stop them from voicing those complaints.

 

[Catesy]

Moderator is deleting posts, I'm out.

 

[bholler]

Moderator is deleting posts, I'm out.

Just keeping things civil

 

[wolfize69]

Is that 600* stove top temp or pipe temp? I have a little Englander 13 in my garage, 1.3 or 1.5 cuft firebox. It routinely gets 600* or more on the stove top surface when at a full burn before I back the air off. Stack temp 4-450* sometimes 500. Then the stove cruises at 350-400 for a bit. I can't shut my damper all the way closed, the stove seems to tight and the fire goes out. Your temp numbers seem acceptable, but if you're getting a lot of creosote I suspect marginal wood. Sometimes shutting the air down to quickly will snuff the fire out enough before all the "creosotey gases" completes it burn off. Shutting the air down a little at a time may help. Example....stove hits 600 or more depending on manufactures rating. Shut air down 1/4.....5 -10 minutes later shut it down 1/4 more.....10 minutes later another 1/4. All stoves are different and you just gotta find out what they like. Also burn hot morning fires to get rid any build up that happens the day prior or during slow overnight burns. Old timer once told me, burn a good hot fire once a day to help keep the pipes clean.

As you learn, I would sweep the chimney monthly to get a gauge on what your wood and burn cycles are leaving behind. The goal is less creosote per cleaning. You've done 2 cords by now, I would have swept the chimney after the first cord or so.

I have a 5 month old VC Defiant. We have burnt about 5 full cords so far. I believe we had 4 chimney fires but I managed them myself. Sounds like a freight train and the whole house rumbles. After the 4th chimney fire I got a chimney sweep with a camera and he says the pipe is immaculate. With all that said, why does a person need to sweep after every cord? Or is that a personal preference? I did buy a chimney pipe cleaner but it says to do it once a year.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I have a 5 month old VC Defiant. We have burnt about 5 full cords so far. I believe we had 4 chimney fires but I managed them myself. Sounds like a freight train and the whole house rumbles. After the 4th chimney fire I got a chimney sweep with a camera and he says the pipe is immaculate. With all that said, why does a person need to sweep after every cord? Or is that a personal preference? I did buy a chimney pipe cleaner but it says to do it once a year.

Five cords is a lot.. I sweep mid season every year just to see how things are going. If your having that much of an issue.. Id check your wood for sure. If your wood is in good shap 20% mc and lower you should be fine.. Open a pice of wood check the MC on the freshly split face with the pinsbehind with the grain and split shoud be room temperature.. DO NOT CHECK ON THE OUTSIDE OR END GRAIN.. this is a false reading.. your checking internal moisture of the split. Also you should be burning with the cat installed.. are you? Kinda sounds like a high MC wood..

 

[GrumpyDad]

I have a 5 month old VC Defiant. We have burnt about 5 full cords so far. I believe we had 4 chimney fires but I managed them myself. Sounds like a freight train and the whole house rumbles. After the 4th chimney fire I got a chimney sweep with a camera and he says the pipe is immaculate. With all that said, why does a person need to sweep after every cord? Or is that a personal preference? I did buy a chimney pipe cleaner but it says to do it once a year.

I can't tell if you are joking or for real. If I had a chimney fire that rumbled I'd be very scared for why that happened.
VC stoves as far as I can tell can build up dangerous creosote quickly. And then letting a load catch too long can quickly ignite that creosote.
There in lies the rub as they say. If you don't let a new load 'catch' it will create a ton of creosote, so there is a very fine like between creating creosote and getting a load to catch nicely without overheating those pipes which wouldn't be an issue if there is no creosote in there.
Best to get the pipes clean, and then get your loads burning hot with lots of flames on a nice thick bed of coals to avoid your chimney fires. I'd have one of those extinguisher sticks handy if I were you.

 

[bholler]

I have a 5 month old VC Defiant. We have burnt about 5 full cords so far. I believe we had 4 chimney fires but I managed them myself. Sounds like a freight train and the whole house rumbles. After the 4th chimney fire I got a chimney sweep with a camera and he says the pipe is immaculate. With all that said, why does a person need to sweep after every cord? Or is that a personal preference? I did buy a chimney pipe cleaner but it says to do it once a year.

Who said you need to sweep after every cord?

 

[begreen]

He happens to be right. You're not running a Dauntless Flexburn. The stove seriously flawed.

Note that I have seen recent postings where the operation by him of this stove has been mastered. The issue is less with the stove than running it properly on dry wood. It is a challenging stove to run as a non-cat for a newbie without a lot of experience. Once the repeated advice to install a cat was finally followed, things seem to have settled down a lot. I'm glad to see that he is now sharing his experience.

This is not new. The VC 2n1 stoves without the cat and NC stoves have always been a challenge. They earned the term Neveburn when they first came out, while the VC cat stove owners were happy with their performance. The non-cats need a strong draft and a good hot coal bed to work properly.

 

[begreen]

I have a 5 month old VC Defiant. We have burnt about 5 full cords so far. I believe we had 4 chimney fires but I managed them myself. Sounds like a freight train and the whole house rumbles. After the 4th chimney fire I got a chimney sweep with a camera and he says the pipe is immaculate. With all that said, why does a person need to sweep after every cord? Or is that a personal preference? I did buy a chimney pipe cleaner but it says to do it once a year.

That is a sure sign that the stove is not being run properly. Has the wood been tested for moisture content? Does the stove have the catalyst installed?

 

[GrumpyDad]

Note that I have seen recent postings where the operation by him of this stove has been mastered. The issue is less with the stove than running it properly on dry wood. It is a challenging stove to run as a non-cat for a newbie without a lot of experience. Once the repeated advice to install a cat was finally followed, things seem to have settled down a lot.

The cat doesnt matter unless you are burning low/slow really, for a controllability. Maybe it helps a bit burning what would otherwise go up into the chimney. I dont really create creosote like I was unless I try to rush a cold start or reload too late. Ive taken mine out waiting for shoulder season. I probably shouldnt but Im worried about expensive replacements year after year, at least while I was still learning burn control (and avoiding sky rocket cat area heat damage). I'll probably put it back in for the rest of the season here soon.
It's still a VERY tricky stove to operate, unless you have the VC badge of experience in the books. And that's what it takes. Months of experience for an individuals setup..because dare I say no two would run alike due to their setup. I bet that can be said for most stoves,..maybe not.
The only definitive flaw that I can point to this entire time is that the flapper got stuck on me early on, wide open. That was pretty scary there for a moment.
I still get an occasional ting, smell, odd looking flame etc that has me on edge, but Im SUPER sensitive to anything happening with this stove because I refused to give up and I want to have cause/effect. And because it weighs over 400 pounds, would take a loss selling it for something else that may have a different set of problems.

I dont think my problems were entirely a VC problem, I think overall the VC design might add to the complexity of the problem.

Im about to write down a user guide for my wife/kids, nothing too elaborate but foolproof to the point that if all else fails they know they can just shut it down all the way, watch for ten minutes then walk away until I get home. I'll laminate it and put it in the soon to be kitchen area.

In the end do I like my stove. Eh. Do I think it has flaws. Yea I wouldnt have picked one designed like this had I known. Does it work and produce heat, yea. Do I have fun using it sometimes. You betcha. I love seeing how long I can keep the stove over 400 degrees STT. I still cant believe what I was able to achieve with giant pieces of oak. I like being selective with my wood loadout...or just at times saying whatever and seeing how tight I can pack the stove.

Anyone new to a VC should learn to build up a good coal base. Good large kindling fire, then throw in a bunch of smalls/mediums and let that burn down a good bit then pack the stove up 1/2 - 3/4 with mediums or larges and learn from that. Dont try to fully load the stove at first, and try to always keep flames or a large bed of orange coals visible. You'll know you are on the path to righteousness when you wake up at 9:30 Saturday morning, and just stir the coals around and let that burn for another hour or so and the stove keeps cruising at 400+.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

So the crumbled cat and warped ashpan is from you letting the stove get too hot.. Do you have a griddle thermometer did you install the digital cat probe

can you tell us what species of wood your burning

 

[Woodsplitter67]

The cat doesnt matter unless you are burning low/slow really, for a controllability. Maybe it helps a bit burning what would otherwise go up into the chimney. I dont really create creosote like I was unless I try to rush a cold start or reload too late. Ive taken mine out waiting for shoulder season. I probably shouldnt but Im worried about expensive replacements year after year, at least while I was still learning burn control (and avoiding sky rocket cat area heat damage). I'll probably put it back in for the rest of the season here soon.
It's still a VERY tricky stove to operate, unless you have the VC badge of experience in the books. And that's what it takes. Months of experience for an individuals setup..because dare I say no two would run alike due to their setup. I bet that can be said for most stoves,..maybe not.
The only definitive flaw that I can point to this entire time is that the flapper got stuck on me early on, wide open. That was pretty scary there for a moment.
I still get an occasional ting, smell, odd looking flame etc that has me on edge, but Im SUPER sensitive to anything happening with this stove because I refused to give up and I want to have cause/effect. And because it weighs over 400 pounds, would take a loss selling it for something else that may have a different set of problems.

I dont think my problems were entirely a VC problem, I think overall the VC design might add to the complexity of the problem.

Im about to write down a user guide for my wife/kids, nothing too elaborate but foolproof to the point that if all else fails they know they can just shut it down all the way, watch for ten minutes then walk away until I get home. I'll laminate it and put it in the soon to be kitchen area.

In the end do I like my stove. Eh. Do I think it has flaws. Yea I wouldnt have picked one designed like this had I known. Does it work and produce heat, yea. Do I have fun using it sometimes. You betcha. I love seeing how long I can keep the stove over 400 degrees STT. I still cant believe what I was able to achieve with giant pieces of oak. I like being selective with my wood loadout...or just at times saying whatever and seeing how tight I can pack the stove.

Anyone new to a VC should learn to build up a good coal base. Good large kindling fire, then throw in a bunch of smalls/mediums and let that burn down a good bit then pack the stove up 1/2 - 3/4 with mediums or larges and learn from that. Dont try to fully load the stove at first, and try to always keep flames or a large bed of orange coals visible. You'll know you are on the path to righteousness when you wake up at 9:30 Saturday morning, and just stir the coals around and let that burn for another hour or so and the stove keeps cruising at 400+.

you can still wake up with a lot of coals in the morning.. that doesn't mean the stove didnt stall or the burn was clean.. this response is off on so may different levels its unbelievable.. A person with subpar wood should follow these directions and sweep once a month

 

[wolfize69]

That is a sure sign that the stove is not being run properly. Has the wood been tested for moisture content? Does the stove have the catalyst installed?

I found the Catalyst was broken when I took the back cover off, they did replace it. The people we are buying our wood from are all telling us ," Yea, it is between 15-20% moisture " Well one cord was so dry it almost vaporized when you touched it. ( ok, not quite that dry,) but definitely 0% moisture. Some was obviously freshly split, and 2 cords were great.

 

[wolfize69]

I can't tell if you are joking or for real. If I had a chimney fire that rumbled I'd be very scared for why that happened.
VC stoves as far as I can tell can build up dangerous creosote quickly. And then letting a load catch too long can quickly ignite that creosote.
There in lies the rub as they say. If you don't let a new load 'catch' it will create a ton of creosote, so there is a very fine like between creating creosote and getting a load to catch nicely without overheating those pipes which wouldn't be an issue if there is no creosote in there.
Best to get the pipes clean, and then get your loads burning hot with lots of flames on a nice thick bed of coals to avoid your chimney fires. I'd have one of those extinguisher sticks handy if I were you.

After that first freight train fire, I bought 4 extinguishers and a Chemfex stick. I also have 8 creosote remover bricks and 2 creosote remover logs now. I put 1 brick in every 2 weeks per instructions.

 

[wolfize69]

So the crumbled cat and warped ashpan is from you letting the stove get too hot.. Do you have a griddle thermometer did you install the digital cat probe

can you tell us what species of wood your burning

They installed the Cat probe but it is on the back, hard to see and not digital. I do have the magnetic stove thermometer. We follow the stove manual like a Bible too.