Chain seems to dull very fast.

[jeffoc]

I'll get to the bottom of it this weekend. I bet it is the oiler got plugged somehow. Then I'll break out the files and go to work, including the rakers.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

 

[Jags]

Keep in mind that if the dealer did in fact smoke that chain, you are not gonna get very far with it.

 

[jeffoc]

I'm thinking that I can probably improve it being that it is so dull right now and then see how long that lasts.
I hate to give him another 10 bucks.

Something else that I thought of, If the rakers are to tall, will the flakes that come off when the blade is sharp, you know the nice big sawdust for lack of a better term, will they be smaller?
I noticed that they seemed to be when I first started.

I'm feeling like I missed a lot but in my defense I was only cutting for a short time before it was to dull to do anything. :red:

 

[Jags]

Raker height is the determining factor in how big of "bite" the teeth take. Shorter raker, bigger bite. As the teeth shorten from sharpening, the rakers have to be adjusted (filed) to maintain the "bite". There are gauges designed for this (cheap too).

 

[TreePointer]

Side issue: If the bar & chain on your MS290 is .325" pitch, then it's likely it came with RMC3 (semi-chisel, low kickback) chain, which I think is one of the most disappointing chains that Stihl sells. Try a loop of RSC chain (full chisel).

 

[jeffoc]

I don't have it handy, but it is the chain that came with the saw, so my guess is yes it is that chain.
I will definately get the new chain, I think I may get it online versus the dealer this time.
As far as the rakers go, that is what I noticed at the very beginning, the bite wasn't as big as it should be.
I love to see those big chunks come off of there right after I get it sharpened!
Just never put it all together. Had all these passing thoughts, just not connecting.
I just saw the gauge reading through the sharpening guide on the link, I'll get one of those too.

 

[Intheswamp]

Jeff, there is a world of difference between the safety chains and the full chisels. I'm a newb myself and just switched over to full chisel a couple of months ago. One thing about the full chisel chains is that they don't have those extra bumps in there to help prevent kick-back. I was more than a little bit concerned about kick-back with the non-safety chains. The guys here on hearth.com encouraged me and explained some things to me...I was glad to have their help! Study over the cutting procedure from the time you grab the pull cord till you flip the kill switch and sit the saw back down...think safety the whole time. *Know* where your saw-tip is at all the time....hit the wood with the throttle wide open...and always know that the very next moment you *will* have kick-back! The big thing is to BE PREPARED for it. I've had a few instances of kick-back, pull-in, and push-back since I've been cutting...each time it makes me think about what I did to let it happen. As for the performance of the full chisel....NICE.

Be aware that if you knock the rakers down too much it can make the saw too "grabby" and make the saw more subject to reactive forces.

I think the guys have it figured out that the saw shop probably burnt your chain. The chain on my ms260 is a Stihl RSC and to buck the pile of cemetery red oak (maybe 1.5 cords) that I just got through with I probably sharpened the chain four times...the next time I sharpen I'll be working on the rakers, too, being as the last cutting the chain just didn't have the cutting ability that it has had. Big chips just make me feel good.

One of the things that really helps when hand sharpening is to have the saw stabilized so that it doesn't wiggle while you sharpen...a vise is nice, either a stump vise in the field or a regular vise in the shop. I will sit on the ground with my legs in front of me and brace the tip of the bar against my right boot if I'm doing the right cutters....left boot if doing the left ones. Not as steady as a vise, but much more steady than nothing at all. Also, don't try to sharpen a loose chain.

Best wishes,
Ed

 

[jeffoc]

I like the idea of a full chisel chain. But kick back scares me. I'm a pretty careful guy and the times it has happened it scared the bejeebers out of me.

Ed,

I would like to try a full chisel chain out just to see what it is like. After all the things I missed this weekend it makes me think that I need to pay more attention already.
I am lucky enough that all of the wood that I'm cutting right now is on my own acerage and within a mile of my house. So I can walk or drive to a picnic table, ice tea and tools.
But I guess the right tools in the wrong hands can cause a lot of problems as well.

 

[TreePointer]

Just for clarification, semi-chisel does not mean low kickback or safety chain.

RSC = chisel, regular chain (yellow)
RSC3 = chisel, low-kickback (green)

RMC = semi-chisel, regular chain (yellow)
RMC3 = semi-chisel, low-kickback (green)

 

[Thistle]

What I prefer & have used for years -

Oregon 91VG044 .043 gauge 12" Low Profile
Oregon 72LPX070 .050 gauge - 20" Full Chisel
Oregon 72LPX084 .050 gauge - 24" Full Chisel
Oregon 72JGX084 .050 gauge -24" Full Chisel,Skip Tooth
Oregon 72LPX084 .050 gauge -24" Full Chisel,Skip Tooth,Ground at 15 degrees for Ripping Chain
Oregon 75JGX115 .063 gauge - 36" Full Chisel,Skip Tooth
Oregon 75JGX115 .063 gauge - 36" Full Chisel,Skip Tooth,Ground at 15 degrees for Ripping Chain

 

[jeffoc]

Thanks treepointer and thistle,

I was just looking online and looking for a replacement, this is helpful.
I may buy one chisel and just compare it with the other.

 

[Thistle]

Pretty sure both Woodland Pro (made by Carlton) has comparable chains that have same features.Noticed a few anyway.They break it all down with their model numbers etc.

 

[smokinj]

Thats more to get through an oak thats for sure. Sounds like the rakers are a little high aswell.

There ya go Jeff - get Jay on the hook for your questions. He is a chain sharpening maniac.

Red Oak seems to be a lot less room for error on rakers. To low and it will vibe your elbows off. To high doesn't cut well. Most of these dealer see's a really crappy chain come in and think that half the job and the op will think its a great job. Would be ok unless hes going after a Big Red Oak with a little saw.

 

[Intheswamp]

I like the idea of a full chisel chain. But kick back scares me. I'm a pretty careful guy and the times it has happened it scared the bejeebers out of me.

Ed,

I would like to try a full chisel chain out just to see what it is like. After all the things I missed this weekend it makes me think that I need to pay more attention already.
I am lucky enough that all of the wood that I'm cutting right now is on my own acerage and within a mile of my house. So I can walk or drive to a picnic table, ice tea and tools.
But I guess the right tools in the wrong hands can cause a lot of problems as well.

You sound normal to me...everybody likes full/semi chisel chain and everybody is a bit scared of kick-back.

The kick-back that I had wasn't too bad...I was moving slowly but wasn't watching as well as I should have been...got a fairly small bump out of it but it got me back on track for watching what I was doing! I've had some pull in when trying to cut some smaller logs...basically rolling the log towards me...I should have had the dawgs more tightly up against the log.

The hardest reactive force I've had, though, was bottom cutting a piece of that cemetery wood....it was push back. I misread my tension/compression on that log and the log started to pinch the saw...it kicked back hard. I pulled the saw on out of the kerf and didn't realize it until I started a top cut that the chain brake had tripped. I stopped a minute to think about that one, too.

Keep your body out of the plane of the bar, have solid footing, watch the kick-back zone of the bar tip for obstacles, study logs for tension/compression, keep your left arm straight, hit the wood with full throttle. If you're tired STOP. Always think that kick-back is just an inch away. Those are some things to keep in mind and I'm sure I probably forgot a bunch of other important stuff.

If used correctly I would even think that chisel/semi-chisel is even safer than non-safety...you get the job done quicker so less time with a running saw and less tendency to put pressure on the bar to make it cut faster. Just some newbie thoughts.

Ed

 

[jeffoc]

Thats more to get through an oak thats for sure. Sounds like the rakers are a little high aswell.

There ya go Jeff - get Jay on the hook for your questions. He is a chain sharpening maniac.

Red Oak seems to be a lot less room for error on rakers. To low and it will vibe your elbows off. To high doesn't cut well. Most of these dealer see's a really crappy chain come in and think that half the job and the op will think its a great job. Would be ok unless hes going after a Big Red Oak with a little saw.

Yep, that sounds like me. One guy in the place is really good and will take his time with my newb questions. But there is also a woman and another guy that don't take an extra second.

They have a lot of brands that they sell, small engine place, so they do a lot of business. I give them a ton of business, right now I have my Stihl trimmer and Huskee tiller in getting service.

 

[smokinj]

Thats more to get through an oak thats for sure. Sounds like the rakers are a little high aswell.

There ya go Jeff - get Jay on the hook for your questions. He is a chain sharpening maniac.

Red Oak seems to be a lot less room for error on rakers. To low and it will vibe your elbows off. To high doesn't cut well. Most of these dealer see's a really crappy chain come in and think that half the job and the op will think its a great job. Would be ok unless hes going after a Big Red Oak with a little saw.

Yep, that sounds like me. One guy in the place is really good and will take his time with my newb questions. But there is also a woman and another guy that don't take an extra second.

They have a lot of brands that they sell, small engine place, so they do a lot of business. I give them a ton of business, right now I have my Stihl trimmer and Huskee tiller in getting service.

Might always when taking a chain in to let them know to check the raker...(this is bs) But lets them know your watching them aswell. Should not have to do this but face it theres always someone looking to get out of work! They also could have been very close and there thinking we will get them next time. This would have been fine other than the big red oak dont think so...lol

 

[jeffoc]

Might always when taking a chain in to let them know to check the raker...(this is bs) But lets them know your watching them aswell. Should not have to do this but face it theres always someone looking to get out of work! They also could have been very close and there thinking we will get them next time. This would have been fine other than the big red oak dont think so...lol[/quote]

Between that and getting the oiler fixed/cleaned, maybe one day I will get the giant tree out of the back yard! :lol:
This will make the g/f very happy.

Ed(intheswamp) is cemetary wood location or type? I keep good eye at the blade location, my biggest problem especially with the big down tree is I find myself in the plane of the blade.

 

[smokinj]

Might always when taking a chain in to let them know to check the raker...(this is bs) But lets them know your watching them aswell. Should not have to do this but face it theres always someone looking to get out of work! They also could have been very close and there thinking we will get them next time. This would have been fine other than the big red oak dont think so...lol

Between that and getting the oiler fixed/cleaned, maybe one day I will get the giant tree out of the back yard! :lol:
This will make the g/f very happy.

Ed(intheswamp) is cemetary wood location or type? I keep good eye at the blade location, my biggest problem especially with the big down tree is I find myself in the plane of the blade.[/quote]

You have pic's of this tree? wedges in every cut sounds like a must.

 

[Intheswamp]

Jeff, the cemetery wood is where I scored some ancient red oak. Mind you, the only part of this that I had was taking pictures and bucking the wood after some buddies had dropped it off in my backyard. Check the pics out in this thread:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/73887/

Yelp, keep yourself out of the plane of the bar. It's hard to do as you cut downward...bending the knees and keeping the bar level...it's hard to do. Have you got a cant hook to roll the log? You could cut down 2/3's the way through the log for several rounds, then find a spot that you could saw all the way through....roll that section of log and then you only have to cut down 1/3 to finish the cuts. It keeps the bar out of the dirt, too....just gotta be careful on that one cut to sever that portion of the log from the rest of it. I'm not sure I explained that very well. I couldn't live without my cant hook.

Jay's suggestion for wedges is a good one.

Ed

 

[jeffoc]

Don't have a cant hook yet, was telling the g/f just the other day that we need to pick one up. Didn't know the name but now I will know what to ask for at the farm store.

I've been cutting down on either side as far as I can keeping the chain out of the dirt and then using the heck out of wedges and sledge, if it doesn't pop I'll take the axe and split it while it is still attached.
Now that I'm getting into the hollow portion of the tree it is getting easier to split, I imagine it is drier than last year too.
I thought about ripping it but with the equipment I have right now I don't think I can do that.
Sorry no pics right now, I have some of when it fell, before I limbed it, I'll see if I can get those on this weekend if my computer skills can figure it out.

 

[jeffoc]

Oh and the size of the tree now, a cant hook would only work on the rounds, this thing is BIG. there is no moving it without heavy equipment.

 

[smokinj]

Oh and the size of the tree now, a cant hook would only work on the rounds, this thing is BIG. there is no moving it without heavy equipment.

Its going to be real slow even with a perfect chain. 290 just not what you would want for that job, but take your time make sure there doing there job at the chain place and wedge every cut. 28 inch oak with a 290 is Moby Dick! Check your air filter often...

 

[jeffoc]

I kind of think of it as whittling it away. Keeps me out of trouble. If I had the bucks I would think about getting a bigger saw, but for hopefully just this tree I can't justify it.
I'll get it done eventually. Then I'll have all that wood for when I finally get the insert bought and installed. I had planned on doing it during the spring but had to buy a new furnace instead.

 

[Kenster]

I don't know about your particular saw but I think you should be needing to refill the oil at least every other gas fill up. My Stihl 390 is just about perfectly measured. Two gas fills and the oil tank is almost empty. I try to take a little break and touch up the chain at that time, too: every other fill up. That way it never really gets dull on me.
I was hesitant to sharpen my own chains but I kept reading about it. The Stihl site is top notch for tutorials. Lots of You tube videos also. Just do it!