CFM Vermont Castings Dutchwest Everburn Non-Cat Owners Discussion and Review Thread!

[elkimmeg]

Here is a picture of both handles I made, the griddle handle and front doors handle

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n10/elkimmeg/IM006495.jpg

 

[BurningIsLove]

Im not sure which link on ebay he posted, here's the Vermont Casting product link (no price obviously)

(broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/content/products/productdetails.cfm?id=188)

At the dealer I purchased mine from, there was a moderate jump in price from the small-->medium size, but almost no difference from the medium-->large size (under $100). I dont think I agree w/ their claim about 14 hour burn times, but if I load it before bed, it still has enuf hot coals in the morning to easily get it going again. I'd say 10 hours w/ the reburner engaged is even a bit optimistic. You can load an impressive amount of splits into it, 3x3 big splits onto a bed of coals, made even easier by the side loading door. I havent tried loading exclusively large, all-nite burner splits to test the max burn time.

As you can see from the pic, the glass front is large and is referred to by my buddies as 'the best HD channel in the house'. It doesnt have an airwash system like Lopi stoves, but the glass stays very clean on its own if you run a hot fire. A simple wipe down w/ a moist paper towel (when not burning) cleans what little residue builds up over a few days of continual burning.

 

[Corie]

BurningIsLove, I think you're mislead about the airwash system. All primary air enters the firebox from above the door though, no?

 

[BurningIsLove]

Im not sure actually where it enters on my particular stove, it could be above the door. Lopi I believe has a patent on something they call AirWash (or something similar) which is advertised as a way to keep the viewing glass from getting any residue. It's not something I've really looked at, aka it aint broken......

 

[tradergordo]

According to the manual, the primary air manifold is inside the piece that the frame of the front door touches, so I guess this could be considered "air washed glass" although for some reason I've never seen VC advertise this.

As for the eBay listing, yes, it was for the same model (2479) and was $999 shipped brand new. Although it sold fast and I haven't seen others listed that low since. But you reminded me of something I need to add to my review - one of the best features of this stove, its price!

p.s. Love the pic Burning. I just got (finally) a new digital camera to replace my old one which died. I'll take pics of my next fire.

 

[Corie]

Yeah, it may not be the same system that Woodstock or Lopi uses, but the fact that all primary air enters the firebox via a manifold above the door opening which causes the air to fall across the door gives the stove an airwash.

Not trying to be nit picky, and I'm sorry if I came off that way.

 

[BurningIsLove]

certainly no offense taken on my side....any comments, good or bad, are a great learning experience in my view!

I think Lopi actually put a patent on the term "air wash" when referring to stoves. But apparently after looking at mine, that is the standard practive, patent or other wise.

 

[BrotherBart]

...any comments, good or bad, are a great learning experience in my view!

Well then you will certainly get the equivilent of a Master's Degree progam if you hang around here.

 

[tradergordo]

Elk sent me a link to a (broken link removed to http://www.vermontcastings.com/catalog/elements/files/Defiant_Vig_Res_Intre_Pre88-0226.pdf) (thanks again Elk!). I really like the way this manual was written and wish all manuals today were done like it. Anyway, the opening paragraph of the "Economics & Efficient Combustion -- The How & Why" section reflects my thoughts exactly:

"It has been our experience that if you understand the inner workings of your stove you will be better equipped to use your stove wisely and to gain maximum savings and pleasure from its daily use. That is why this section on the efficiency and combustion principles of the stoves is included before you reach the installation information."

This section of the manual contains great information about "horizontal combustion" (fuel limiting) and other technical aspects of their stoves, much of which applies to the newer everburn stoves including the Dutchwest. I would love to see them update this with more details on the latest design elements in their stoves.

-Gordo

p.s. Finally got a new camera, so I'll take some pics this week, also got started on making my own handles...

 

[tradergordo]

Just finished making my own custom handles. Only because Elk did it first, I decided to make them from wood
But I must say there is almost no way these puppies will burn, I had a bunch of leftover flame stop (liquid fire retardant) and I soaked the handles in it before painting them with high temp paint.

I used 4 3.5" carriage bolts, 4 washers, and a wooden dowel I had laying around. I cut the dowel to 3 inch lengths, drilled with 1/4" bit (getting it straight was a total pain even with a drill press) and counter-sync'd it first with a 1/2" bit, then just the center with a small counter-sync bit that the interior part of the bolt head sinks down into. Here are some pics.

 

[tradergordo]

Finished product...

 

[BurningIsLove]

Those look so great attached to the stove, nice job! I took a chunk of seasoned red oak kindling (about 3"x3" x 12" long), turned it on the lathe, and have roughed out a set of 3 handles. Still debating whether I have the time (or skill) to do any fancy lathe-work designs.

Does the flame retardant 'stain' the wood appreciably? I kinda like the natural wood look being an amateur woodworker. Is there a fire concern coating them w/ woodturning finish? It's designed to seep into the wood and preserve the grain, as well as prevent cracking.

And thx for posting that older VC manual, it was very enlightening!

 

[tradergordo]

I also really like the natural wood look in general, but wasn't sure it was such a good idea here, first of all, I think only a dark wood or stain is going to go with the black stove aesthetically, and second I figured the high temp paint would be an added level of protection. The flame retardant didn't seem to stain the wood at all, although it might have different affects on different types of wood.

My thinking was that the washer would dissipate a little heat and shield the wood a bit, and the carriage bolt head is sunken into the handle but also exposed and unpainted so that it will also dissipate heat away from the handle. I applied flame retardant and high temp paint on the inside of the handles as a precaution. The flame retardant was expensive, but it works very well, I tested it on a highly flammable piece of fabric and it worked great, they have other test videos on their website. I treated everything around the stove with the stuff (curtains, carpet, couch) - don't know what is in it, but its completely non-toxic and very effective.

Those look so great attached to the stove, nice job! I took a chunk of seasoned red oak kindling (about 3"x3" x 12" long), turned it on the lathe, and have roughed out a set of 3 handles. Still debating whether I have the time (or skill) to do any fancy lathe-work designs.

Does the flame retardant 'stain' the wood appreciably? I kinda like the natural wood look being an amateur woodworker. Is there a fire concern coating them w/ woodturning finish? It's designed to seep into the wood and preserve the grain, as well as prevent cracking.

And thx for posting that older VC manual, it was very enlightening!

 

[elkimmeg]

want to turn therm dark expose the wood to a propane torch to darken it to a stain like finish

 

[BurningIsLove]

elkimmeg, do you have fire retardant or other finishes on your handles, or are they raw wood? How hot do they get after a long burn? I was gonna bench test mine, but its been horrifically hot up in New England (for November) and I havent burned in about 2 weeks. THe oil heat hasnt even kicked on in days, and the house was 71 this morning when I woke up.

Stoopid weather system....where's that lovely, cold, dry Canadian air?

 

[elkimmeg]

plain normal birch dowel material I haven't burnt my hand yet they will get warm but so far nothing to be concerned about I also made the d griddle handles on both stoves or any other missing handle. So far in 3 years they have not burned off yet

 

[tnroadkill]

i have the same dutchwest stove, i heat 1800 sq. feet. this is 2 nd. winter to use it.
the only trouble i have with mine is when tempurate get into 20's and have a REAL good draft i get a good fire going, then shut off top damper to start the main burn the stove will make a roaring sound and it does not matter how much you try to close it do it will keep getting hotter and roaring
i made me a damper to go on the connector that is use for outsde air. now if it seems to be drafting too hard i can close it down a couple minutes until draft settles down then open back up, then it works like a charm.

wish i had seen this post earlier gordo i work in tool and die i could have made you some removable polish brass handle

 

[tradergordo]

i have the same dutchwest stove, i heat 1800 sq. feet. this is 2 nd. winter to use it.
the only trouble i have with mine is when tempurate get into 20's and have a REAL good draft i get a good fire going, then shut off top damper to start the main burn the stove will make a roaring sound and it does not matter how much you try to close it do it will keep getting hotter and roaring
i made me a damper to go on the connector that is use for outsde air. now if it seems to be drafting too hard i can close it down a couple minutes until draft settles down then open back up, then it works like a charm.

wish i had seen this post earlier gordo i work in tool and die i could have made you some removable polish brass handle

That's interesting, what kind of flue and chimney setup do you have (length, bends, interior/exterior)? Ideally that everburn "roar" really SHOULD continue for a long time after you close the damper, that means it is efficiently burning the secondary gasses, although its not supposed to keep getting hotter and hotter when the primary air is closed (mine seems to stabilize around 600-650 degrees). What temps do you see and how are you measuring them? Have you examined and tested your door gaskets?

p.s. The removable polished brass handle sounds nice - you should sell them to Vermont Castings because almost anything would be better than their delicate ceramic handle! I wonder how many dealers get complaints from their customers about damaged handles? Have you made any custom handles for your own stove? I would love to see some pics! The problem with using any type of metal for a permanent handle is that it probably would get very hot unless you can figure out a good way to insulate, or use some kind of wire wrap like you see on other stoves.

 

[tnroadkill]

triple metal pipe from ceiling to cap12 feet total, after reading your post i do not run up to 600 or 650 we could not stay in house temp would be so hot would have to keep windows and doors open i have checked all gaskets i measure temp. on top of stove

THANKS

 

[tradergordo]

triple metal pipe from ceiling to cap12 feet total, after reading your post i do not run up to 600 or 650 we could not stay in house temp would be so hot would have to keep windows and doors open i have checked all gaskets i measure temp. on top of stove

THANKS

Have you ever adjusted the latches on your doors? The gasket compresses over time. But from what you've said, it sounds like its running as it was designed to really. Stovetop temps are different than flue temp though -- the 600-650 I mentioned is the internal flue temp (measured with a probe thermometer).

I think stovetop should be around 450-550? Although CFM says its designed to run safely at up to 700 measured externally. I usually run the flue temp up to 800+ before I damper down. It is a pretty big stove so I could definitely see someone getting baked out of the room when its burning as hot as its intended to. My house almost seems like it was designed to be heated with a woodstove - the hot air spreads out without building up too much in any one room although it has gotten into the high 70's a few times which to me is way too hot so I had to open windows. My wife managed to get the house into the 80's when I wasn't there - but it was like 50 outside at the time

 

[BurningIsLove]

Same advice as tradergordo....I also have the same DW, and it's happy range is 520-550 as measured from by a magnetic thermometer resting on the single walled flue pipe horizontally out the back fo the stove. Much below that and the reburner just isnt hot enough to engage, and it can choke the stove and reduce draft. It will work fine in temps below that w/ the bypass open.

I totally hear ya that when it's in 'thermonuclear zone' as we've described on this thread, that the stove throws out way more heat than is comfortable for a ~2000 sq ft space, espec if well insulated. I'm fortunate that my stove is right next to the door to an unheated, but well insulated, 2 story garage/shop, so a lot of heat is drawn out the door and keeps the garage around 65 in low temps. I also moderate the living room by cracking certain exterior doors/windows to create a draft that pulls cool, fresh air from the outside across the stove and keeps the living room tolerable. Without that, I've gotten the living room into the 90's before. I've found it's better to run the stove hotter in the zone it prefers and bleed excess heat outside than to run it at a lower temp with the bypass open. Not only is it better for draft/chimney health, but it increases burn times when it's burning horizontally.

 

[BurningIsLove]

This probably comes as no surprise, but now that it's cold again outside (currently 27 and dropping) and the drafting is better, it has really made a difference in the operating temp of the reburner. It's noticeably less finicky, and the everburn roar is present at much lower temps. Normally my reburner would stall below 500 when it was warmer out. Now it runs consistently around 420, and what a magical temp that is.

Again, not going strictly by the prescence/absence of the everburn rumble. Also gauging the performance by whether there are visible emmissions from the top of the stack (none whatsoever when the reburner is working well) as well as the glow of the actively burning splits and the horizontal deflection of the few flames.

 

[tradergordo]

This probably comes as no surprise, but now that it's cold again outside (currently 27 and dropping) and the drafting is better, it has really made a difference in the operating temp of the reburner. It's noticeably less finicky, and the everburn roar is present at much lower temps. Normally my reburner would stall below 500 when it was warmer out. Now it runs consistently around 420, and what a magical temp that is.

Again, not going strictly by the prescence/absence of the everburn rumble. Also gauging the performance by whether there are visible emmissions from the top of the stack (none whatsoever when the reburner is working well) as well as the glow of the actively burning splits and the horizontal deflection of the few flames.

Yes, I noticed the same exact thing. Was a little surprised to see the everburn working in the 400 range, that's good news!

EDIT on 12/8/06 to add:
Pretty nice that on the first day we had teen temperatures I got the best burn ever out of my new stove. It was 73F in the bedroom when I woke up, 19 outside. I guess that officially settles the question in my mind that the stove would be capable of heating my entire house all winter without having to use any backup heat source.

What I did that worked so well was stuff a giant UNSPLIT log into the stove on top of two big splits. It burned nice and hot for 8 hours before I threw more wood on in the morning. Temp actually hit 80 degrees in the bedroom at one point. I got the log from the local dump, no idea what species, it looked really dry despite being unsplit, had no bark, probably had been laying around for years. Wish I had more wood like that! I guess this goes to show me the joy of burning really dry wood (or even better, really dry unspit wood that isn't rotten, which seems pretty rare).

 

[Gooserider]

One quick question on the stove dimension - how high is the flue exit? We have a definite height limit on our chimney setup, the current stove comes straight out the back at 21" center height (bottom of pipe 18" top at 24") above the hearth, and can't really be pushed any higher w/o major masonry work. Is the stove's flue exit low enough to work with this?

Gooserider

 

[BurningIsLove]

Unfortunately it's taller than your current setup. The large stove (comes in S/M/L sizes) has an exit height of 30". One the small stove it's still taller than 21" (27" according to the product manual.

The legs are removable, but I dont think that's very advisable to have it sitting directly on the hearth.