Can't burn the stove tonight...

[bungalobob]

Just plain sad. How do you Californians put up with this type of crap?

Don't judge us all by LA or the Bay Area. There are actually some normal people here, but we are outnumbered.

I left LA 23 years ago because I could see where it was headed.

The Bay Area is so bizarre it should be on another planet.

But it's all relative. The cities are spreading, and the inhabitants are seeking the more rural areas as they get priced out of home ownership. One couple from LA-LA Land bought a home near here a few miles down a remote road. They successfully convinced the county to install a street lamp across from their driveway because "it gets so dark" at night.

Amazing.

You just gotta love it. Hope you get to burn those pellets again.

 

[Shortstuff]

I just glanced through those regulations and this is one thing they mentioned under "What you can do to help":

» Switch to an EPA-certified wood burning device or pellet stove, which emit up to 70% less PM.

Would'nt this mean that you can use your pellet stove?

Steve

 

[abbdog]

35,000 acres burns down the road from you and their worried about air quality.Thought pellet stoves were epa cert.

 

[wilbilt]

I just glanced through those regulations and this is one thing they mentioned under "What you can do to help":

» Switch to an EPA-certified wood burning device or pellet stove, which emit up to 70% less PM.

Would'nt this mean that you can use your pellet stove?

Steve

They specifically mention pellet stoves on the ban list. I think what they are saying is that if everyone had EPA-certified devices, air quality would improve and there would be fewer restrictions.

I also read in there that all firewood sold must be labeled to inform customers there may be times it will be illegal to burn it. How do they come up with this stuff?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

There is no question an EPA device, even wood, burns clean as far as smoke (particulate matter) goes. I can go outside, during daylight, and find it hard to see any smoke at all coming out of my chimney when the insert is up an running. There is some start-up smoke, maybe 5 to 10 minutes worth.

How long will it be before Pelosi and gang spread the San Francisco way of life to the national level?

 

[moog5]

There is no question an EPA device, even wood, burns clean as far as smoke (particulate matter) goes. I can go outside, during daylight, and find it hard to see any smoke at all coming out of my chimney when the insert is up an running. There is some start-up smoke, maybe 5 to 10 minutes worth.

How long will it be before Pelosi and gang spread the San Francisco way of life to the national level?

The rule also exists in Sacramento. They use different stages. The final stage 2 says no burning at all. They usually only implement stage 2 when the dense fog sets in with an inversion layer..... in Sacto it gets pretty bad. I can see why they made the rule, because it doesn't take big percentage of the million+ people living in Sacto burning their chimneys to make the air quality really bad. Regardless, telling people no pellet stove burning seems a bit ridiculous. Go here for a description of Sacramento's new rules:

(broken link removed to http://www.sparetheair.com/burncheck.cfm)

. I live about 10 miles east of Sacto in the foothills, in El Dorado County, we don't have the rules YET. My house is all electric (an old heat pump that would cost me probably $500/month to run... I don't dare turn it on)....the reason I have a pellet stove. If they ever tried to implement the rule here, they would have a tough time. I suppose if they knock on my door, I will tell them they can't come in. If they can't see the smoke, or the stove burning, I am not sure how they could ever prove I was burning. I can't picture them getting on my roof.

 

[wilbilt]

I am about an hour north of Sacramento, and about 40 miles SE of Chico. The Chico city council was considering mandating similar bans within the city limits recently. It seems the backlash was such that they are worried about their careers and have passed the issue on to the county the last I heard.

The air quality where I am is almost always good. The worst days are when the rice farmers torch off 100 acre fields of rice straw in the summer. The resulting smoke columns cover the countryside with nasty-smelling ash that stings the eyes. I understand that this is gradually being phased out, but there are some days it gets really bad here.

 

[mralias]

I'm no lawyer but it appears to me there is all kinds of ways around this poorly written rule. Oh yeah...they call it a rule and not a law. This one is particularly interesting to me.....

Limited Exemption, Only Source of Space Heat: The requirement of Section 6-3-301 shall not apply to any person whose only source of heat for residential space
heating is a wood-burning device. A person claiming this exemption cannot have use
of another form of functioning space heating.

If I was to take a crack at the meaning of this amazingly inefficient written bunch of garbley goop I would say that my pellet stove is my only source of a "space heat" I have. Remember, pellet stoves are intended for space heat only. I say use their words against them.

Oh this is a good one too....

404.3 Effective January 1, 2009, if wood (not to include manufactured logs) is not
seasoned, then the label must state the following:
“This wood does NOT meet air quality regulations for moisture content and
must be properly dried before burning.”
In addition to the disclosure listed above, any person offering for sale or
selling wood that is not seasoned for use in a wood-burning device shall also
provide written instructions on how to properly dry the wood to achieve a
20% (percent) by weight moisture content.

Better label every stick of wood you have... man this is just sad.....

 

[J Douglas]

Not all Californians are equal we have been burning 24/7 this past week with our recent cold snap. We live in a rural area of the Nor Cal foothills, since the woodstove is our primary source of heat we are exempt from no burn days. Nothing beats wood heat even though the woodstove is considered a space heater, heats entire 1400SQ FT house just fine. Some day when were rich and famous we will install forced heating system but for now 28f outside 72 inside Wife gives a thumbs up.

 

[Turbozcs2003]

don't ya know? we need this global tax to spread the wealth around - come on, be patriotic and pay your CO2 gas tax

We have a winner

THey call em credits so people wont think it is a tax. Of course when the utilities have to pass the cost of these credits into their electric bills, they should call
it the Hedie Cullen(Wehter channel know it all) tax

 

[wilbilt]

Not all Californians are equal we have been burning 24/7 this past week with our recent cold snap. We live in a rural area of the Nor Cal foothills, since the woodstove is our primary source of heat we are exempt from no burn days. Nothing beats wood heat even though the woodstove is considered a space heater, heats entire 1400SQ FT house just fine. Some day when were rich and famous we will install forced heating system but for now 28f outside 72 inside Wife gives a thumbs up.

Welcome aboard.

When I left for work at 0600 this morning, it was 23F outside. I talked to the wife about an hour later, and the temp had dropped to 21F. Definitely unusual temps around here, but the pellet stove was keeping a +45F difference between outside and inside (running on low-medium).

I prefer it over the forced-air furnace. The furnace blows cold air around when it starts up and drains $300/month from my wallet. I haven't even lit the pilot so far this year.

The 20-below crowd will laugh at our winter temps, but in reality, I think they envy them. I'm in 95966...you?

 

[mayor mcheese]

California would just be the beginning. It will spread across the states eventually, unless we do something about. It doesn't mean we have to rally in a big group, but if we call our legislators and let them know they will not be getting our vote if the pass some B.S. like that they may think twice. Even though the people on capitol hill received a 1000 to 1 calls not to pass the bailout bill, it did work the first time. I do fear for the future of this great country. Obama's speech about having to make unpopular decisions really got me afraid. I thought these jokers worked for us. I know if I made unpopular decisions at work I wouldn't have a job very long.

P.S. Someone let Al Gore know he can turn the global warming on now,.,.,.Its cold.

 

[DiggerJim]

California would just be the beginning. It will spread across the states eventually, unless we do something about. It doesn't mean we have to rally in a big group, but if we call our legislators and let them know they will not be getting our vote if the pass some B.S. like that they may think twice. Even though the people on capitol hill received a 1000 to 1 calls not to pass the bailout bill, it did work the first time. I do fear for the future of this great country. Obama's speech about having to make unpopular decisions really got me afraid. I thought these jokers worked for us. I know if I made unpopular decisions at work I wouldn't have a job very long.

P.S. Someone let Al Gore know he can turn the global warming on now,.,.,.Its cold.

Expect the same old same old going forward. I've noticed that Obama's promise to "create 2.5 million jobs" turned into "create or preserve 2.5 million jobs" which has turned into "preserve or create 2.5 million jobs". I'm betting that before the winter is out, it'll be "preserve 2.5 million jobs". After that anything that happens short of 100% unemployment will be a success because "another 2.5 million jobs would have been lost" but for whatever twiddling has occurred by the government. As we head into the first 100 days of yet another government power transfer (anyone care to recall how successful Pelosi's much vaunted "first 100 days" was?) we already have promised fiscal restraint caving into the call for another 850 billion to 1 trillion dollar "stimulus". So much for deficit reduction.

Does anyone remember that FDR's great society programs which are being heralded as fixing the depression actually resulted in more unemployment (nearing 1 out of 3 people) before WWII stepped in and fixed the economic chaos? Building a boatload of roads, public buildings, parks, etc. by government contractors is certainly not the most efficient way to get money distributed from the haves to the have-nots and from our children to someone today.

Sometimes "change" is merely a different person pushing the same buttons.

<sigh>

 

[Harvick29]

In my area they are starting to crack down on outdoor furnaces because they are blanketing the neighborhood with smoke mainly because of the short chimney but that is only thing I have heard about in PA.

 

[mayor mcheese]

In my area they are starting to crack down on outdoor furnaces because they are blanketing the neighborhood with smoke mainly because of the short chimney but that is only thing I have heard about in PA.

If there is one thing I have learned lurking around here for some time, Is any stove old or new, operated properly can be burned cleanly. But I think it should be a complaint type system such as a noise ordenance. Maybe a fine for the repeat offenders with an in depth pamphlet on how to burn clean. People in my area have the outdoor furnaces that smoke non stop, I am pretty sure they are even burning thier garbage in them to avoid paying for pick up, and of course thier furnace is positioned so none of it blows back on thier place. :cheese:

As far as the political posts earlier, Global warming, carbon tax, co2 all BULL. Watched many shows that said the earth thrived when the co2 levels where higher plant and animals alike. As far as global warming the same guys at nasa who has said it was true have discredited their findings with their sun cycle studies. excerpt from 2007 said Scientists from Nasa say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5C since the 1970s. This is similar to the warming experienced on Earth over approximately the same period. their most recent study can be found and says that the southern icecap on mars is now refreezing same can be seen on earth.

I agree that some of the junk we pump out over cities that contribute to the contaminates of the water acid rain and all that good stuff is completely different than the global warming bologna. And to some degree particulates from stoves in urban enviorments may contribute to the smog but it's a far cry from a health danger compared to the main contributers of the smog.

But our lovely bureacrats will show pictures of smog filled cities and wood stoves pumping out smoke and a depleated forest and say we need to tax the air we exhale. Lord I can barely type this without feeling angry. Until we get a president and a congress that just says no to the foriegn banking interests I'm afraid we will all have to weather a depression. But hey what the hell do I know I'm just a Turd in this world trying my best to keep my house, my sanity and my kids fed, and if it kills I'll get er done.