Can I turn a Defiant Encore upside down?

[bholler]

Well, I GOT IT

I finally went back to the glue trap idea, the sticky rubbery stuff in the little tray. SO hard to work with but Lordy, it is sticky. I also found my little automotive mirror on a handle, a small round one that I could get in there and maneuver until I could see the flashlight, so I knew where to aim. And in my shop I found the world's largest cable tie, just lying around. About 2 and a half feet long, a good quarter inch wide, pliable enough to go around the corner, stiff enough to let me push down on it. The head of the tie is about the size of my fingernail, so I could get a good glob on it. The first 10 or 12 tries, I just got a coating of ash and powder, but I kept adding the gick and the size of the glob got to at least an inch in diameter.

Finally I could feel the gick pushing against the flashlight so I let it settle in good, then pulled up and when it got near the top I was able to grab it!

Luckily for my hand and the flashlight, the gick is soluble with gasoline. So my hand is clean and the flashlight is clean and shiny.

AND -- the flashlight was still on and shining brightly.

So, case closed. And thanks to all for the ideas and interest.

Graphite as a lubricant? I presume that would be at a hardware or auto parts store? Just apply it to all the sliding surfaces?

Thanks again!

SonOfEru

Use anti seize as lubricant it is the best we have found. Then take the internals apart to clean and inspect them. And replace the cat. If it was used for 5 years it needs a new one.

 

[SonOfEru]

OK, thanks. The local auto store sells anti seize.

I presume it's ok with the heat?

And where do you shop for catalytics? Prices seem to vary a lot. I see one on Amazon Prime for $175, by Midwest Hearth. And one on Ebay saying genuine VC cat for $289. Hmmm ....

I presume a lot of them are after-market knockoffs and may not be so good? Never shopped for one before.

 

[brenndatomu]

Most anti-seize I've found is good for 2200* F or so..."high temp" anti-seize (with nickel) will add another 3-400* onto that.
Whatever you find should work...some parts stores have small packets of it...no need to buy a huge can you'll never use.
Glue mouse trap...very creative!

 

[RandyBoBandy]

OK, thanks. The local auto store sells anti seize.

I presume it's ok with the heat?

And where do you shop for catalytics? Prices seem to vary a lot. I see one on Amazon Prime for $175, by Midwest Hearth. And one on Ebay saying genuine VC cat for $289. Hmmm ....

I presume a lot of them are after-market knockoffs and may not be so good? Never shopped for one before.

I just bought the one on amazon for 175. It is firing just fine. Next thing you are going to want to purchase is a digital probe thermometer to monitor the cat temps. Auber instruments AT100 is a fan favorite around here.

 

[SonOfEru]

I have an Auber AT100 already. The Encore has a hole in the back for installing one. I try to run mine at around 1000*. Thats the advice I got a year ago, between 800 and 1200, not over 1400, if it goes higher, open the damper and close down the air. Does that sound right? VC of course does not give advice on it, they only give stove top temps.

And actually the glue trap idea came from the guy at the hardware store. Said it was the stickiest stuff you ever saw and I agree.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I have an Auber AT100 already. The Encore has a hole in the back for installing one. I try to run mine at around 1000*. Thats the advice I got a year ago, between 800 and 1200, not over 1400, if it goes higher, open the damper and close down the air. Does that sound right? VC of course does not give advice on it, they only give stove top temps.

And actually the glue trap idea came from the guy at the hardware store. Said it was the stickiest stuff you ever saw and I agree.

1400 isn’t bad. It’s on its way to being to hot but 1400 is ok. I take action at 1500. Ideally if the stove is shut down correctly we can keep the cats out of nuclear meltdown, but they are VC stoves and..........

 

[RandyBoBandy]

@jharkin posted a good detailed procedure for running these stoves. It’s in one of the older VC owners threads. Maybe 2013.

 

[SonOfEru]

@jharkin posted a good detailed procedure for running these stoves. It’s in one of the older VC owners threads. Maybe 2013.

Does anyone have a direct link to that post from jharkin? I've searched through 2013 and a bit before and after, nothing like a full scale procedure.

I presume it's different from what the Owner Manual tells me?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Does anyone have a direct link to that post from jharkin? I've searched through 2013 and a bit before and after, nothing like a full scale procedure.

I presume it's different from what the Owner Manual tells me?

It is different from the manual. The manual does a horrible job at describing how to run these stoves. I will look later to see if I can find it.

 

[Diabel]

Yes
We have a member here that had a super description process on how to run these stoves. Can’t remember his name. His avatar had a white Encore in it.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

It’s post #75 in the 2016/2017 VC owners thread. Lots of good information on maintenance, operation, and modifications in the VC owner threads over the last five years.

 

[SonOfEru]

Thanks, I found it.

Final question? For years I have had the practice of starting a fire with the ash pan a little bit ajar [I had an Encore before this one, got this one to replace it when it finally gave out]. So it burns with a good rush, and warms up fast. And then when I close the damper, I have always left the pan open until the temp gets up to 900 or so. If I dont give it that boost when I close the damper, it seems to take forever to get up to cat burning.

But I wonder if there is danger in that. Is it hard on the cat to make it heat up faster that way? I've heard the term thermal shock, is that what would happen, and overstress the cat?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Thanks, I found it.

Final question? For years I have had the practice of starting a fire with the ash pan a little bit ajar [I had an Encore before this one, got this one to replace it when it finally gave out]. So it burns with a good rush, and warms up fast. And then when I close the damper, I have always left the pan open until the temp gets up to 900 or so. If I dont give it that boost when I close the damper, it seems to take forever to get up to cat burning.

But I wonder if there is danger in that. Is it hard on the cat to make it heat up faster that way? I've heard the term thermal shock, is that what would happen, and overstress the cat?

I’m guessing this is how you killed your previous encore. Burning with the ash pan open is very bad practice. Thermal shock on the cat is the least of your worries at this point. You stand the chance of cracking the bottom of your stove by rapidly heating the castings. You are basically turning your stove into a blow torch by leaving the ashpan open. It’s ok to leave the doors cracked open for a few minutes to help get things going but that’s it. By no means should anything be open when the damper is closed (except for the primary air, that should be wide open). Granted all installs are different but if you follow jharkins guide to operation you should be fine.

 

[SonOfEru]

I’m guessing this is how you killed your previous encore. Burning with the ash pan open is very bad practice. Thermal shock on the cat is the least of your worries at this point. You stand the chance of cracking the bottom of your stove by rapidly heating the castings. You are basically turning your stove into a blow torch by leaving the ashpan open. It’s ok to leave the doors cracked open for a few minutes to help get things going but that’s it. By no means should anything be open when the damper is closed (except for the primary air, that should be wide open). Granted all installs are different but if you follow jharkins guide to operation you should be fine.

I was afraid that would be the answer. Oh well. It just takes a long time to get going that way, that's all.

My excuse was always that I only burn small loads. I have a small space to heat. The stove is in the main open open space - living room/dining room/kitchen all one space, but only about 500 sq ft. Then with two bedrooms and the bath, the entry, laundry room and a small office space, all only about 800 sq ft, so you might ask why do I have a stove that would heat a bigger space anyway.

The old stove was the one we had at the old house, and we brought it with us when we built this one. It was to be a backup to the new central heat system, but when oil shot up I went back to using it as the main heat. After 15 years here the damper plate in the old stove began to warp, so I couldnt keep control of the pathway to the cat. That's when this new stove came available, and at a good price, and though 25 years old it had only 5 years use.

So at this house it has always been a game of running it in a way that wont roast us out. I have never loaded it up full, or even half. Maybe a third or a little more at times. At the old house I did run it with full loads, but here I have not wanted to.

I generally start with smaller logs so they catch quicker, but it's only like 4 pieces in the range of 3 to 4 inches, maybe 1/4 of the firebox space. Once it's up to 450 on the griddle, which takes 10 minutes or so, I let it go to the cat, and it's still only a relatively small fire. Then once the cat is up to say 900, I close the pan and it goes down again to 500 or 600 and slowly works its way up to the 1000 that I have been running at. By the time the first load is down to coals, the house is comfortably warm, and I put in one or two sticks at a time, let them catch good, then back to cat mode. The coals take it up qick enough. So it stays at a gentle heat level, but with the temp around 1000 it burns pretty clean. I rarely see it over 1200 and dont want it more than that, it gets too hot in the main space. I like 75* but it goes to 80* at times and that's a bit much.

So that's my technique. A few times I did try running through the whole startup with no ash pan assistance and gosh it took a long long time. I'm retired, and at home most of the time, but still, I want to just get it going and not have to stick around and watch it and manage it for 30 to 40 minutes.

So that's my excuse. And still it probably is hard on it. Rats.

 

[SonOfEru]

I was afraid that would be the answer. Oh well. It just takes a long time to get going that way, that's all.

My excuse was always that I only burn small loads. I have a small space to heat. The stove is in the main open open space - living room/dining room/kitchen all one space, but only about 500 sq ft. Then with two bedrooms and the bath, the entry, laundry room and a small office space, all only about 800 sq ft, so you might ask why do I have a stove that would heat a bigger space anyway.

The old stove was the one we had at the old house, and we brought it with us when we built this one. It was to be a backup to the new central heat system, but when oil shot up I went back to using it as the main heat. After 15 years here the damper plate in the old stove began to warp, so I couldnt keep control of the pathway to the cat. That's when this new stove came available, and at a good price, and though 25 years old it had only 5 years use.

So at this house it has always been a game of running it in a way that wont roast us out. I have never loaded it up full, or even half. Maybe a third or a little more at times. At the old house I did run it with full loads, but here I have not wanted to.

I generally start with smaller logs so they catch quicker, but it's only like 4 pieces in the range of 3 to 4 inches, maybe 1/4 of the firebox space. Once it's up to 450 on the griddle, which takes 10 minutes or so, I let it go to the cat, and it's still only a relatively small fire. Then once the cat is up to say 900, I close the pan and it goes down again to 500 or 600 and slowly works its way up to the 1000 that I have been running at. By the time the first load is down to coals, the house is comfortably warm, and I put in one or two sticks at a time, let them catch good, then back to cat mode. The coals take it up qick enough. So it stays at a gentle heat level, but with the temp around 1000 it burns pretty clean. I rarely see it over 1200 and dont want it more than that, it gets too hot in the main space. I like 75* but it goes to 80* at times and that's a bit much.

So that's my technique. A few times I did try running through the whole startup with no ash pan assistance and gosh it took a long long time. I'm retired, and at home most of the time, but still, I want to just get it going and not have to stick around and watch it and manage it for 30 to 40 minutes.

So that's my excuse. And still it probably is hard on it. Rats.

Actually I was curious about your remark that it would be hard on the bottom of the stove. I would think that the incoming cold air would keep the bottom cooler, at least. I would have thought the top or sides would be more vulnerable

 

[Dobish]

Actually I was curious about your remark that it would be hard on the bottom of the stove. I would think that the incoming cold air would keep the bottom cooler, at least. I would have thought the top or sides would be more vulnerable

i learned by reading my manual that you are not supposed to do that. Even though the air is cooler, it superheats the coals, and will crack things.