Block off plate and insulated liner, local installers don't want to do..

[bholler]

Does it look like there's a sleeve or union connecting the liner and insert?

Yes it is the elbow but it is not the correct piece the liner should go into the elbow and be attached with a strap clamp.

 

[excessads]

Yes it is the elbow but it is not the correct piece the liner should go into the elbow and be attached with a strap clamp.

Well, I can't get the liner off, but......I don't need to, as my #1 goal is to remove paint n peel, turns out i got enough room to peel em off, all of em! Goal #2 is to install block off plate. I think the two overlapping pieces make sense, but it will need to be on another day.

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[bholler]

I don't want to damage the liner, anyway I can position the insert to the left or right side and then pull the stove out, I tried sliding doesn't seem like anything is yielding or easing up. I wondered if the liner and cap has to be pulled from up top to disconnect from the elbow?

you should be able to push up on the liner enough to get that elbow out of the stove. I would switch it out for the correct component though and I would make your installer supply it because they used the wrong part.

 

[bholler]

I am also wondering why there is no mesh clamps or wire around the insulation can you look up and see if there is any farther up the liner?

 

[excessads]

Me and my friend both tried lifting the liner, it wiggled a little but it's not budging, def no mesh clam further up either.

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[bholler]

Me and my friend both tried lifting the liner but it wiggle a little but it's not budging, def no mesh clam further up either.

Did you disconnect the elbow from the stove? Do you know what brand liner they used? If you do look up the instructions for insulating it then call your installer and tell them they have to pull the liner and install the insulation correctly. It will not stay in place without the mesh or at the least stainless wire.

 

[excessads]

Did you disconnect the elbow from the stove? Do you know what brand liner they used? If you do look up the instructions for insulating it then call your installer and tell them they have to pull the liner and install the insulation correctly. It will not stay in place without the mesh or at the least stainless wire.

We can't get it off, it's vortex liner. I will email them and see what they say.

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[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Did you disconnect the elbow from the stove? Do you know what brand liner they used? If you do look up the instructions for insulating it then call your installer and tell them they have to pull the liner and install the insulation correctly. It will not stay in place without the mesh or at the least stainless wire.

I look forward to seeing how the installer responds to this!

 

[begreen]

you should be able to push up on the liner enough to get that elbow out of the stove. I would switch it out for the correct component though and I would make your installer supply it because they used the wrong part.

Agreed, I don't like that elbow either, nor the screws into the liner. This looks like an installation where corners were cut. The cement on the insulation was a hint. Makes me wonder about how the insulation is held on and about the top plate too.

The elbow should have a clamp on top like this:

 

[bholler]

http://www.northerntool.com/images/downloads/manuals/48968.pdf

Read page 6 and 7 on insulating the liner. Is says it needs wrapped in mesh

 

[excessads]

http://www.northerntool.com/images/downloads/manuals/48968.pdf

Read page 6 and 7 on insulating the liner. Is says it needs wrapped in mesh

You beat me to it, thank you!
I am trying to compose an email convincing enough that they need to address the sloppy install.

I was actually there when they were insulating the liner, they didn't use mesh, but did use tape to wrap around the insulation first, then use SS wire to tie them every 10" or so. Frankly it look okay, I totally miss the mesh part. In your opinion, may not be perfect, but would it post a serious health risk other than losing heat if certain section of the insulating has openings?

As for the elbow, if it doesn't has a good seal, the exhaust gas can be leaked back into the house, and that's a higher risk, I think?

I checked with the town before and they don't have specific code but the job need to follow manufacturers' guidance.

 

[begreen]

Check the top cap install if possible just in case there is more to talk with them about.

 

[bholler]

I was actually there when they were insulating the liner, they didn't use mesh, but did use tape to wrap around the insulation first, then use SS wire to tie them every 10" or so. Frankly it look okay, I totally miss the mesh part. In your opinion, may not be perfect, but would it post a serious health risk other than losing heat if certain section of the insulating has openings?

Some companies used to allow you to secure it that way but I dont think any do any more because over time it allows the insulation to come off. And when that happens if you dont have proper clearances it could be a potential fire risk.

As for the elbow, if it doesn't has a good seal, the exhaust gas can be leaked back into the house, and that's a higher risk, I think?

It is more of a problem that it is the wrong direction and can allow stuff to fall on top of the stove which could smoke or even catch fire.

 

[excessads]

Check the top cap install if possible just in case there is more to talk with them about.

What should I be looking for on the top cap?

 

[bholler]

What should I be looking for on the top cap?

For it to be sealed correctly or anything else that looks wrong post a pic and we can tell you.

 

[excessads]

Some companies used to allow you to secure it that way but I dont think any do any more because over time it allows the insulation to come off. And when that happens if you dont have proper clearances it could be a potential fire risk.


It is more of a problem that it is the wrong direction and can allow stuff to fall on top of the stove which could smoke or even catch fire.

So with the insulation,they need to take out the liner and wrap mesh around it.
And for the stove connector, they need to use the correct part as in the picture but how should it be oriented so it will be in the right direction?

 

[bholler]

So with the insulation,they need to take out the liner and wrap mesh around it.

yes

And for the stove connector, they need to use the correct part as in the picture but how should it be oriented so it will be in the right direction?

It should be positioned as in the picture the part with the clamp goes up and the clamp is what holds the liner in place. The liner should slide into the elbow and the elbow goes into the stove

 

[excessads]

yes


It should be positioned as in the picture the part with the clamp goes up and the clamp is what holds the liner in place. The liner should slide into the elbow and the elbow goes into the stove

I checked owner's manual for the insert, and it mentions it the connector must be secured with a minimum of three screws, so can't say they are not going by the book. Well, email is sent, let's see if they even reply.

 

[bholler]

I checked owner's manual for the insert, and it mentions it the connector must be secured with a minimum of three screws, so can't say they are not going by the book. Well, email is sent, let's see if they even reply.

Yes 3 screws through the stove collar into the elbow. Not attaching the elbow to the liner

 

[excessads]

This is what they say: "We did not use the lining system client references.

We wrapped entire lining insulation with stainless steel wire tightly woven from top to bottom of lining with no more than 3in of space. This wire is heavy gauge stainless steel and is provided by the manufacturer. This is an approved method of securing the insulation. This will keep insulation tighter to lining than mesh wrapping can. This keeps insulation closer to lining which makes insulation more effective. This also helps keep insulation from being damaged during installation as mesh bag can be loose and snag on install causing rips.

The stainless steel slip connector used to connect to stove was also provided by manufacturer. This connection is made to fit tightly into stove and lining system as to not allow combustion exhaust to escape. This slip has a rounded half inch raised area in middle which when installed seals both liner and stove. This fitting is also sealed with refractory cement once install is complete."

As expected, I didn't think they would give in to redo work they think is ok. On an email mentioned previously, they would come out to troubleshoot for $225 per session. On the manufacturers instruction, the method of connection didn't mention using a proper sleeve with hose clamp. I m trying to assess the risk of smoke if something felt behind the insert outlet and decide what to do.

 

[The DuRochers]

Yeah...same thing happened to me when I had my insert installed last year. I was out right dismissed on the block off plate and had to fight with them to get the insulated liner installed. One of the techs was wrestling the pre-insulated liner (that I insisted on) on to the roof at the install and actually said to me out of frustration..."you didn't need an insulated liner." After burning one season and reading this site almost daily and came to the conclusion that since I have a 28ft exterior chimney I was likely losing heat up the chimney so I called them and insisted on a block off plate installation and made clear I would pay for it. After some back and forth they agreed. However, at the time of the block off plate installation, the same tech stood in my living room and adamantly told my wide and I "this isn't going to do anything...we sealed the chimney at the top last year and your NOT losing any heat into the masonry!" My wife actually couldn't believe they as paying customers for the BOP...the tech actually said that to us. I can only conclude after reading so many posts like yours that dealers just want to basically slam it in and get on to the next install. Sorry to all the top notch pros out the like bholler and others who take the time to do the job right the first time! But this is my perception from most of the posts I've read here over the last year!

I do not know where you are located but in NWCT my Chimney guy charged me $1500 (Labor $500/Liner $1000) for installation with a 40ft liner (we have tall ceilings + 3 floors) and I believe it is insulated ... he said double walled, whatever that means. The Dealer wanted to charge $750 for Labor and $800 for a single liner.

 

[kevreh]

Has anyone compared using a block off plate vs just roxul? When I did my install last year I jammed a bunch of roxul around between my ss pipe and the chimney wall, and can't feel any air moving around my insert. Roxul is pretty dense. Just wondering if there would be any benefit to pulling out the insert and installing a block off plate. ?

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Has anyone compared using a block off plate vs just roxul? When I did my install last year I jammed a bunch of roxul around between my ss pipe and the chimney wall, and can't feel any air moving around my insert. Roxul is pretty dense. Just wondering if there would be any benefit to pulling out the insert and installing a block off plate. ?

I currently have just what you have. The manual to my stove, supposedly written by a top guy in the industry, states that a steel block-off plate is superior, and I get the distinct impression based on my observations here of others, that is consensus. I plan to install the steel block-off this season. We'll see!

 

[mellow]

I saw a difference when I switched to using Durock and Roxul vs just Roxul. I used Durock for my block off.

 

[kevreh]

How did you attach the durock to the opening?