Block off plate and insulated liner, local installers don't want to do..

[redyute]

With thisView attachment 185711

Well guys lets be fair. Not everyone wants to even pay for the liner itself, I hear it everyday "they didn't know it was gonna cost that much." A lot of folks just want to do the chimney starter connection, not a full length liner, that their chimney "is big and it drafts great". Explaining that it needs a liner for draft purposes still gets looks. When you start adding additional costs for customers, they get more wary. Don't know how it is around the country, but sales here have been slow to sluggish, low energy costs, warm weather and lack of funds have suppressed things here in CT so far, for us anyway. Maybe everyone is being entertained (or being disgusted) by our politicians. Anyway, everybody keep warm.

My 8" install kit costed me $1000.00 stainless insulated. What you gonna do lol its needed

 

[bholler]

Well guys lets be fair. Not everyone wants to even pay for the liner itself, I hear it everyday "they didn't know it was gonna cost that much." A lot of folks just want to do the chimney starter connection, not a full length liner, that their chimney "is big and it drafts great". Explaining that it needs a liner for draft purposes still gets looks. When you start adding additional costs for customers, they get more wary. Don't know how it is around the country, but sales here have been slow to sluggish, low energy costs, warm weather and lack of funds have suppressed things here in CT so far, for us anyway. Maybe everyone is being entertained (or being disgusted) by our politicians. Anyway, everybody keep warm.

Not here it has been an average year for us. As far as the added costs go. People know we are not the cheap guys when they call us they know it will get done right and that it is not going to be the cheapest option. As far as insulation and block off plates go we don't give them the option we are either doing the install with them or we don't do the install. I am sure we loose some jobs because of that but I am not compromising my standards to make a sale.

 

[Hogwildz]

Not here it has been an average year for us. As far as the added costs go. People know we are not the cheap guys when they call us they know it will get done right and that it is not going to be the cheapest option. As far as insulation and block off plates go we don't give them the option we are either doing the install with them or we don't do the install. I am sure we loose some jobs because of that but I am not compromising my standards to make a sale.

Exactly! Wood burning is not an area to skimp on anything. If folks don't want to spend the extra cost, which really isn't bad compared to the benefits of the additional parts & labor, maybe they should keep using their oil burner, electric etc. I personally feel insulation and a block off, can make a major difference in the event of a chimney fire alone, not to mention the benefits of better burns, more heat into the home rather than out to the wild blue yonder, and better performance. It is a no brainer, and if someone balks at such, what else will they decide to skip on? Any costs in initial set up of wood burning, are easily recouped and exceeded in savings in a relatively short time period.

I do still love my insulated double wall rigid...

 

[bholler]

I do still love my insulated double wall rigid...

I dont like installing rigid I think it is harder for little to no advantage over heavy flex. But to each their own it is in no way a bad product. And it is smaller od which in some situations would be very helpful.

 

[Hogwildz]

I dont like installing rigid I think it is harder for little to no advantage over heavy flex. But to each their own it is in no way a bad product. And it is smaller od which in some situations would be very helpful.

I lucked out with a 13" x 13" tile liner in the old chimney, Went down without a hitch. A lil rough for 1 person, but I got it done. The only hitch was into the old steel fireplace, I had grinder & sawzaw in there. Not a fun job. I probably could have gone straight onto the insert, but got 5' of flex for through the smoke shelf to the stove. Glad I did, cutting through 2 layers of 1/4" steel was no fun, and cut only what I needed + a little error room. Been really happy with it. Going on year 11 and still in great shape.

 

[bholler]

cutting through 2 layers of 1/4" steel was no fun,

No it is not I don't like doing them either. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

Been really happy with it. Going on year 11 and still in great shape.

Good Like I said it is not a bad product I just choose not to use it. I personally don't see much benefit to it over what we use but that does not mean using it is wrong in any way whatsoever.

 

[mellow]

you do realize having them stop work in the middle of an install is going to cost allot more money right?

Having the dealer install it if they even will do it, will cost more money. So either way it should get done.

 

[branchburner]

Not everyone wants to even pay for the liner itself, I hear it everyday "they didn't know it was gonna cost that much." Explaining that it needs a liner for draft purposes still gets looks. When you start adding additional costs for customers, they get more wary.

I understand completely, because I myself was one of those that had no idea about liners. But it seems the OP and others are talking not about trying to sell customers on spending more, but on the certain small percentage of customers WANTING to spend more but being turned away.

My thought is, an installer could inform customers about the options of block-offs and insulation without pushing them. My general experience is that customers don't resent being given options if they are also told the option is, well... optional. I think I'd be more likely to invest in a block-off if my installer told me it's potential advantages and then said, "it's entirely up to you, and you will probably be fine without it." The art of the soft-sell is to let the customer up-sell himself.

 

[stovelark]

branchburner- Totally agree with what you are saying- like your style too.

 

[jscs.moore]

I understand completely, because I myself was one of those that had no idea about liners. But it seems the OP and others are talking not about trying to sell customers on spending more, but on the certain small percentage of customers WANTING to spend more but being turned away.

My thought is, an installer could inform customers about the options of block-offs and insulation without pushing them. My general experience is that customers don't resent being given options if they are also told the option is, well... optional. I think I'd be more likely to invest in a block-off if my installer told me it's potential advantages and then said, "it's entirely up to you, and you will probably be fine without it." The art of the soft-sell is to let the customer up-sell himself.

I couldn't agree more! Instead of just slapping down the customer by telling them insulated liners and block off plates are NOT needed...why not give them the option of having them installed and price the additional work accordingly. I agree that an educated customer is going to appreciate being given options and dealers can make extra money for doing the extra work. It just sucks I've read so many posts on this site describing the same dealer slap down I received on my original install.

 

[bholler]

My thought is, an installer could inform customers about the options of block-offs and insulation without pushing them. My general experience is that customers don't resent being given options if they are also told the option is, well... optional. I think I'd be more likely to invest in a block-off if my installer told me it's potential advantages and then said, "it's entirely up to you, and you will probably be fine without it." The art of the soft-sell is to let the customer up-sell himself.

I can agree with you about the block off plate but insulation should not be optional. In most if not all cases it is a requirement and in the few that have proper clearance the performance gains are worth the extra.

 

[excessads]

along the line of this topic, I called the vendor installed insert earlier this year they quote me $500+ to disconnect the insert from liner and set aside so I can scrub the fireplace behind, measure, install blockoff plate and resintall stove. The stove is working ok, the sole reason I want the blockoff plate installed was to minimize smell when it's damped outside. I told them I longer need the block off plate just need them to come by and disconnect and reconnect on another day. Apparently it isn't worth his while to even return my call or email. They suck! I will learn it and set aside time to do it myself correctly, safely, and cheaply.

 

[ccmac]

That's what you do Excessads. You'll be glad you did when all said and done. Most professionals don't do the job as well as you can, not because they can't but because they don't. Most just don't care like I do so consequently their work is sloppy and flaws are readily observed. I have run across a handful in my life that do amazing work...craftsman style that only a master could do, but they are rare.

 

[bholler]

Most professionals don't do the job as well as you can, not because they can't but because they don't. Most just don't care like I do so consequently their work is sloppy and flaws are readily observed.

I am sorry but that is completely unfair. There are many pros out there that do very good work. And many homeowners who cant do anything.

 

[excessads]

I am sorry but that is completely unfair. There are many pros out there that do very good work. And many homeowners who cant do anything.

I agree, there are things I know it's beyond my limits, E.g. electrical and plumbing. I could not have installed the insert without their help and by all honesty they did a decent job. But if I called a few places with decent reviews and no one called back, I may end up getting stuck with knocking off the cement and hopefully I can disconnect and slide the insert out with a blanket under the stove.

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[begreen]

Is that cement on the outside of the insulation? If so it will come right off, it's not doing anything.

 

[excessads]

Is that cement on the outside of the insulation? If so it will come right off, it's not doing anything.

I think so, will find out later this week, I do have to remember to wear gloves to avoid getting cut from the insulation.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Those furniture moving plastic pucks can be really handy for moving..skidding heavy stuff.

 

[begreen]

I lay down some flat sheet metal for the insert to slide on.

 

[sportbikerider78]

Truthfully,I have my own heavy equipment dollies...but use the pucks in a pinch.

Once you use these..you wonder what you did without them. You can pivot a car in the garage on a smooth floor.
(broken link removed to http://clarkecasters.com/catalog/super-duty-three-wheel-dolly-capacity-p-2732.html)

 

[excessads]

I was checking one out in HD about a month ago and thought it was mobile coaster for my coffee mug, haha

 

[brenndatomu]

Go get an (broken link removed) (you should probably have one anyway), and compare the temps of your chimney at the bottom, middle, and top to the temp of some bricks elsewhere on the exterior.

I got an IR camera last year...went out and shot my chimney one cold night, it was pretty easy to see which flue was being used and which one wasn't...and this is WITH insulation and BOP!

 

[jetsam]

I got an IR camera last year...went out and shot my chimney one cold night, it was pretty easy to see which flue was being used and which one wasn't...and this is WITH insulation and BOP!

That's even cooler but a lot more expensive! I have been waiting for 10 years for prices to go down (which they have, a LOT, but still more than I want to pay).

 

[brenndatomu]

That's even cooler but a lot more expensive! I have been waiting for 10 years for prices to go down (which they have, a LOT, but still more than I want to pay).

It was only $100 (I found a deal...but even so they are normally less than $200) It is a "Seek" brand, it clips onto your smart phone...not HD like the big $$ ones...but its pretty dang good!

 

[excessads]

Is that cement on the outside of the insulation? If so it will come right off, it's not doing anything.

So, knocked cement gently off and peeled back insulation undone 3 screws, now comes the fun part, should I push the liner up while trying to slide the stove out at the same time? Does it look like there's a sleeve or union connecting the liner and insert?

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