Blaze King princess OR Ideal Steel??

[Highbeam]

Are you guys doing this thread again?

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Over and over. This is the best one. You’ll get a Woodstock vs bk, a cat vs hybrid, oak vs no oak, and a low burn vs high burn debate all in one. The problem is some dipwad that has never owned either stove will spout uninformed drivel.

 

[Ashful]

Trying to run the princess hot, as in max setting, would produce a flame filled firebox. The amount of smoke produced at this setting couldnt be burned up by the combuster. The stove would run hot like this until it burned out after 3-5 hours.

The IS’s secondaries are able to burn the smoke in addition to the combuster at high running temps.

To get high heat output from both stoves the IS is more efficient and has longer burn times.

This makes much more sense. But I’d not count that against your Princess, which could go 30 - 40 hours on a load of wood on a low setting, the fact that it can be turned up to rip thru the same load in 3 - 5 hours. That’s a feature, not a detriment.

On efficiency at high burn, yes, you may have something there. I haven’t checked the numbers, but I wouldn’t be surprised that a hybrid has the better numbers on a high setting. Not an issue for most, as very few run their stoves at high settings, but something that may affect the decision of a few.

But, your stove should never be “spewing smoke”. The Princess’s thermostat should limit it to a burn rate that cannot completely overwhelm a properly functioning combustor. That is part of the design. Even on the highest settings, my Ashfords still emit very little smoke from the chimney, as long as I’m burning dry wood.

 

[bholler]

Over and over. This is the best one. You’ll get a Woodstock vs bk, a cat vs hybrid, oak vs no oak, and a low burn vs high burn debate all in one. The problem is some dipwad that has never owned either stove will spout uninformed drivel.

Is that directed at me??? If so what did i post that was uninformed?

 

[bholler]

This makes much more sense. But I’d not count the fact that your Princess, which could go 30 - 40 hours on a load of wood on a low setting, can be turned up to rip thru the same load in 3 - 5 hours. That’s a feature, not a detriment.

On efficiency at high burn, yes, you may have something there. I haven’t checked the numbers, but I wouldn’t be surprised that a hybrid has the better numbers on a high setting. Not an issue for most, as very few run their stoves at high settings, but something that may affect the decision of a few.

But, your stove should never be “spewing smoke”. The Princess’s thermostat should limit it to a burn rate that cannot completely overwhelm a properly functioning combustor. That is part of the design. Even on the highest settings, my Ashfords still emit very little smoke from the chimney, as long as I’m burning dry wood.

I would add if run correctly with good fuel no modern stove should be spewing smoke at anytime other than startup or reload. And it should stop quickly. If you are spewing smoke something is wrong.

 

[Highbeam]

This makes much more sense. But I’d not count the fact that your Princess, which could go 30 - 40 hours on a load of wood on a low setting, can be turned up to rip thru the same load in 3 - 5 hours. That’s a feature, not a detriment.

On efficiency at high burn, yes, you may have something there. I haven’t checked the numbers, but I wouldn’t be surprised that a hybrid has the better numbers on a high setting. Not an issue for most, as very few run their stoves at high settings, but something that may affect the decision of a few.

But, your stove should never be “spewing smoke”. The Princess’s thermostat should limit it to a burn rate that cannot completely overwhelm a properly functioning combustor. That is part of the design. Even on the highest settings, my Ashfords still emit very little smoke from the chimney, as long as I’m burning dry wood.

+1. I would expect that one of the epa tested burn rates was a high burn and so the princess can burn clean on high. My princess can spew some smoke as temperatures ramp up but once up to the desired temperature it clears up.

Another weird data point. Both stoves can consume their entire fuel load in the same 3-5 hours. Both have equal efficiency rating. How in the heck does one of the stoves have a dramatically higher “high “ output spec?

 

[bholler]

+1. I would expect that one of the epa tested burn rates was a high burn and so the princess can burn clean on high. My princess can spew some smoke as temperatures ramp up but once up to the desired temperature it clears up.

Another weird data point. Both stoves can consume their entire fuel load in the same 3-5 hours. Both have equal efficiency rating. How in the heck does one of the stoves have a dramatically higher “high “ output spec?

Again because of the fact that the is is a hybrid the internal firebox temps will be higher leading to a higher temp on the exterior radiating surfaces.

 

[Highbeam]

Again because of the fact that the is is a hybrid the internal firebox temps will be higher leading to a higher temp on the exterior radiating surfaces.

False. Internal firebox temperatures are not directly related to stove output.

Both stoves have manuals. Both stoves are temperature limited by “no parts may glow” in the manual.

I think you are wrong again. Perhaps you’ve never burned either of these stoves?

If “more output cuz its a hybrid” is all you’ve got then we’ll just have to agree to disagree and maybe someone with more knowledge can help.

 

[bholler]

Both stoves have manuals. Both stoves are temperature limited by “no parts may glow” in the manual.

I think you are wrong again. Perhaps you’ve never burned either of these stoves?

Yes but just because the stoves are limited to no parts may glow does not mean that they are going to have the same temps on the outer surface or that one will not have higher temps over a larger surface area.

And no i have never owned either stove but that does not mean i have no experince with them. Granted neither stove is all that common in this area i do work on several of each and have been around both when they are running. Now have you ever run an IS or even been around one when it was running?

 

[begreen]

Considering that most everyone is talking about one stove or another that they have never run, let's stop with this direction now. People are welcome to express their opinions here without feeling badgered or shamed. The OP is looking for opinions and comparisons, not fanboy brags and certainly not personal attacks.

 

[lsucet]

I don't think that firebox temp is related to technology in use, ( tube, hybrid, cat or smoke dragon.) I can run the stove as hot as the previous one, Just with the flip of a dial or get a black box with the flip of a dial with the fire box full of wood. The nature of other technologies in comparison is to run hotter due to the lack of a wide range of control by the user, that's all. if you look into it, on tubes you will turn the primary air all the way down or almost at early stage of the burn to avoid overfiring condition cause is just limited how much you can control. with BK I can burn to any rates and if i want, dial it real low at any stage. it is just that.

 

[bholler]

I don't think that firebox temp is related to technology in use, ( tube, hybrid, cat or smoke dragon.) I can run the stove as hot as the previous one, Just with the flip of a dial or get a black box with the flip of a dial with the fire box full of wood. The nature of other technologies in comparison is to run hotter due to the lack of a wide range of control by the user, that's all. if you look into it, on tubes you will turn the primary air all the way down or almost at early stage of the burn to avoid overfiring condition cause is just limited how much you can control. with BK I can burn to any rates and if i want, dial it real low at any stage. it is just that.

Yes as said many times before bk stoves excell at control of heat output. They just dont have the peak output of other stoves. And for many people that is not an issue. But when you have secondary combustion taking place in the firebox the internal temps will be higher. And that higher firebox temp will lead to higher temps on the outside of that box unless it is heavily insulated of sheilded. This is just in the nature of the different burn technologies. They all have their place people just need to decide which is better for them

 

[Ashful]

Another weird data point. Both stoves can consume their entire fuel load in the same 3-5 hours. Both have equal efficiency rating. How in the heck does one of the stoves have a dramatically higher “high “ output spec?

I’ve always wondered this, myself. I’ve asked a few times, but have never seen an answer that satisfies me. It must come down to a difference in how they’re defined, like one is calling out the maximum output on the EPA defined test load (BK) and the other is calling out maximum output on a real load of cord wood (Woodstock). I really don’t know the reasoning, but it is clear as day, the numbers do not add up.

 

[Ashful]

Again because of the fact that the is is a hybrid the internal firebox temps will be higher leading to a higher temp on the exterior radiating surfaces.

The issue here is that, if you put the same BTU’s into two fire boxes, and release them over identical time at nearly identical efficiency, the overall heat output must be the same. This is simple physics, basic conservation of energy stuff, there is no magic to be had.

Differences in materials, firebox temperatures, etc. are irrelevant. Or put more accurately, they’re the secret in the sauce that gives us that final efficiency number. Similar efficiency x similar wood load x similar burn time... should = similar BTU rating. The fact that one is vastly different than the other indicates there is some difference in the test method.

 

[bholler]

The issue here is that, if you put the same BTU’s into two fire boxes, and release them over identical time at nearly identical efficiency, the overall heat output must be the same. This is simple physics, basic conservation of energy stuff, there is no magic to be had.

Differences in materials, firebox temperatures, etc. are irrelevant. Or put more accurately, they’re the secret in the sauce that gives us that final efficiency number. Similar efficiency x similar wood load x similar burn time... should = similar BTU rating. The fact that one is vastly different than the other indicates there is some difference in the test method.

And that is very possible. But being around both stoves i can tell you my perception without any testing was that the is radiated much more heat from the whole stove while the princess radiated the majority from the top. Again that is just my perception not based on testing. And when you think about how the 2 stoves work that perception makes sense.

 

[begreen]

Can the BK output at as high a rate as the IS? I thought that the BK stove temp would cause the thermostat to regulate down the air supply, so that 'wide open' with the BK is not the same as 'wide open' for the IS. That is, the BK is more self-protecting. What we lack is the actual testing scenarios and data like stove temp, assuming things like fuel charge is equal.

 

[jetsam]

Considering that most everyone is talking about one stove or another that they have never run, let's stop with this direction now. People are welcome to express their opinions here without feeling badgered or shamed. The OP is looking for opinions and comparisons, not fanboy brags and certainly not personal attacks.

Have you no respect for our colorful local traditions??

 

[lsucet]

Yes as said many times before bk stoves excell at control of heat output. They just dont have the peak output of other stoves. And for many people that is not an issue. But when you have secondary combustion taking place in the firebox the internal temps will be higher. And that higher firebox temp will lead to higher temps on the outside of that box unless it is heavily insulated of sheilded. This is just in the nature of the different burn technologies. They all have their place people just need to decide which is better for them

With all respect you are/still missing the point. they all have secondaries combustion cause secondaries are related to temp and not to technology. the only different is that on tubes or hybrid the primary/air wash gets shut and it is switched to preset air channels were it ignites creating that effect and give you a good display/show. understood. The peak output is not related at all and they all can reach the same high temp.You with the air shut and me with the dial 3/4 way open.

 

[jetsam]

Can the BK output at as high a rate as the IS? I thought that the BK stove temp would cause the thermostat to regulate down the air supply, so that 'wide open' with the BK is not the same as 'wide open' for the IS. That is, the BK is more self-protecting. What we lack is the actual testing scenarios and data like stove temp, assuming things like fuel charge is equal.

'Wide open' for the BK is not one fixed amount of airflow- it's allowing the intake flapper to go between fully open (if the stove is cold) and partly open (if the stove is hot). There is a maximum thermostat setting, but not a ''wide open" setting in the sense of the air inlet being fully open all the time. It shuts down at whatever temperature BK decided to set as their safe maximum, which is obviously lower than a stove that has no upper limit.

How big is the band between BK's temperature limit and the overfire temperature for an IS? Unknown, unlikely to be determined, and probably not all that helpful for a stove purchasing decision anyway.

 

[bholler]

With all respect you are/still missing the point. they all have secondaries combustion cause secondaries are related to temp and not to technology. the only different is that on tubes or hybrid the primary/air wash gets shut and it is switched to preset air channels were it ignites creating that effect and give you a good display/show. understood. The peak output is not related at all and they all can reach the same high temp.You with the air shut and me with the dial 3/4 way open.

If you think you reach the same internal temps without the introduction of secondary air you are mistaken i am sorry that just is not true. And you are missing the important factor that the bk temps are limited by tge automatic damper to whatever bk determined they wanted. Do you really beleive those air channels are there just to give you a good show???

 

[lsucet]

If you think you reach the same internal temps without the introduction of secondary air you are mistaken i am sorry that just is not true. And you are missing the important factor that the bk temps are limited by tge automatic damper to whatever bk determined they wanted. Do you really beleive those air channels are there just to give you a good show???

Secondaries take effect at 1100 df regardless if it has tubes or not. Are you saying BK firebox won't reach those temp? lol. I can burn my stove on high and reach a good high firebox temp and closed the air enough to almost no flame but the wood outgassing and i get a full firebox of secondaries/ghost flame for long time. You need to burn on one and you will see.

 

[bholler]

Secondaries take effect at 1100 df regardless if it has tubes or not. Are you saying BK firebox won't reach those temp? lol. I can burn my stove on high and reach a good high firebox temp and closed the air enough to almost no flame but the wood outgassing and i get a full firebox of secondaries/ghost flame for long time. You need to burn on one and you will see.

I have seen it plenty of times and the secondaries are not as intense and neither is the heat radiating off of the box. Yes temperature is required for secondary combustion but so is oxygen. Yes there will be some secondary combustion taking place in a cat stove on high but not nearly as much as there is in a hybrid or tube stove because there is not adequate oxygen in the top of the firebox. I dont know why you guys assume i dont know how bk stoves work just because i dont own one. I do this professionally i work on lots of stoves. I go out to peoples houses while they burn to help with problems etc.

 

[Ashful]

Can the BK output at as high a rate as the IS? I thought that the BK stove temp would cause the thermostat to regulate down the air supply, so that 'wide open' with the BK is not the same as 'wide open' for the IS. That is, the BK is more self-protecting. What we lack is the actual testing scenarios and data like stove temp, assuming things like fuel charge is equal.

Yes, this is correct. But I’m talking even more base-level physics, here. If we agree both stoves can burn down 3 cu ft of oak in the same 5 hours, and both have similar efficiency, then both must put the same amount of heat into the house over that time.

You are implying that the Princess won’t go thru the wood as fast, due to the thermostat, which would explain the difference in rated high output. But somewhere, several posts ago, some Princess owner said it would.

 

[Rich L]

I’ve had both stoves in exact same spot and flue.

I like the IS quite a bit better.

Everyone has different home and heating needs, but I can get the same long burn time from IS as I did from princess, roughly 12-14 hours.

The IS shines at anything above a black box.

I get 0 smoke out of stack even at near full output with the IS in very cold temps.

The princess would spew smoke when the flames are raging in the firebox and burn out quick.

Of course, if you run it low and slow all the time that really doesnt matter.

Sigruts which stove works best when the power goes out ?

 

[bholler]

Sigruts which stove works best when the power goes out ?

They will both work just fine

 

[lsucet]

Sigruts which stove works best when the power goes out ?

I think the differences can be based on each individual situation. I used to run just one stove before and after the house was up to temp i just use radiation from the stove. when using the fan sometimes is just on low for awhile and is rare the time i use them if the house is at temp. with both stoves going there is no reason to use the fans at all unless the house is to cold to bring it back quick. when outrage like the other days when wind was blowing and power was out for almost 4 hrs, it makes no differences to me cause i am on propane for cooking and water heater. I think everything depends.