Blaze king King issues need help

[Woody Stover]

it is a cell phone booster antenna!

I wonder how many stranded travelers might not have died in the wilderness, if they'd had a portable cell phone antenna with them so they could have hit a distant tower...

woke up this morning with my fire out because of moisture and the glass is all back with run marks all over it!

You need to verify the moisture content of your wood, and go from there before spending money unnecessarily. I know you said your wood was Pine, split and stacked in a shed earlier this year. As was mentioned, it might be pretty dry if the Pine was from dead trees. But if the trees were live when cut, then split and put in the shed where there's no wind, it's possible the wood hasn't dried enough yet. Moisture running down the glass is a bad sign! If you bought the wood instead of cutting it yourself, it may be hard to tell if it was live wood, or what. Get a $15 moisture meter from Harbor Fright, split several of your larger splits, and test on the fresh-split surface. If your wood is indeed wet, maybe you can find some dead wood now that you could cut and use (if you or a friend has a saw and a truck.) There's a lot of beetle-kill Pine in your area, I think. You could buy some Northern Idaho Energy Logs (NIELs) but they are expensive. Gas station wood may or may not be dry; A meter would tell you this.
Once you have confirmed dry wood, the next thing is to determine weather the cat is OK. With the former owner burning chemicals through it, it could glow once in a while, but still be very weak from poisoning and not be able to stay lit at low draft settings. There is also a cleaning procedure for the cat which may help restore it somewhat. It will only clean ash that is stuck on the cat surfaces, it won't restore a poisoned cat. (broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/combustorcleaningmanual.pdf)
In the meantime, get that bypass gasket fixed. If you're getting a metal-on-metal sound, it's probably not sealing. And reset the thermostat knob and make sure it's not slipping on the shaft.

 

[tarzan]

"If" the bypass is not sealing, I doubt it is contributing much at all to your problems. Wet wood sounds to be the leading suspect. If you can just get your hands on one stove load of dry wood it would tell you a lot about where to go from there. I still think your cats are likely bad but other issues are more prevalent right now.

I base my thinking on the bypass not contributing greatly to your problem on the fact that I forgot to close mine one night before bed. Embarrassing story but nothing was hurt and after 10 hours of burning I had close to the amount of wood left I would have if I had closed it.

Is your wood cut, split, and stacked? Drying really doesn't start until all three are done.if it is in a pile then that is hurting you.

 

[Isaiah53]

Looking back at the pictures of the chimney on both the inside, I can't see how there is 16 ft of chimney. Maybe relative to ground level, but it looks more like 12-14 feet from the top of the stove to me. Add that to the elbows and the horizontal run, the large exposure to the outside, and the fact that it is probably at almost 4000 ft elevation and you likely have very poor draft. Not discounting the wood moisture, but I don't think there is much chance of getting satisfactory performance from that chimney set-up.

 

[BlazekingKING]

I wonder how many stranded travelers might not have died in the wilderness, if they'd had a portable cell phone antenna with them so they could have hit a distant tower...
You need to verify the moisture content of your wood, and go from there before spending money unnecessarily. I know you said your wood was Pine, split and stacked in a shed earlier this year. As was mentioned, it might be pretty dry if the Pine was from dead trees. But if the trees were live when cut, then split and put in the shed where there's no wind, it's possible the wood hasn't dried enough yet. Moisture running down the glass is a bad sign! If you bought the wood instead of cutting it yourself, it may be hard to tell if it was live wood, or what. Get a $15 moisture meter from Harbor Fright, split several of your larger splits, and test on the fresh-split surface. If your wood is indeed wet, maybe you can find some dead wood now that you could cut and use (if you or a friend has a saw and a truck.) There's a lot of beetle-kill Pine in your area, I think. You could buy some Northern Idaho Energy Logs (NIELs) but they are expensive. Gas station wood may or may not be dry; A meter would tell you this.
Once you have confirmed dry wood, the next thing is to determine weather the cat is OK. With the former owner burning chemicals through it, it could glow once in a while, but still be very weak from poisoning and not be able to stay lit at low draft settings. There is also a cleaning procedure for the cat which may help restore it somewhat. It will only clean ash that is stuck on the cat surfaces, it won't restore a poisoned cat. (broken link removed to http://www.condar.com/combustorcleaningmanual.pdf)
In the meantime, get that bypass gasket fixed. If you're getting a metal-on-metal sound, it's probably not sealing. And reset the thermostat knob and make sure it's not slipping on the shaft.

Ok I will try all of this we switched the pipe around today as best we Could

 

[BlazekingKING]

Looking back at the pictures of the chimney on both the inside, I can't see how there is 16 ft of chimney. Maybe relative to ground level, but it looks more like 12-14 feet from the top of the stove to me. Add that to the elbows and the horizontal run, the large exposure to the outside, and the fact that it is probably at almost 4000 ft elevation and you likely have very poor draft. Not discounting the wood moisture, but I don't think there is much chance of getting satisfactory performance from that chimney set-up.

We have 12ft of chimney on the outside of the house alone

 

[BlazekingKING]

"If" the bypass is not sealing, I doubt it is contributing much at all to your problems. Wet wood sounds to be the leading suspect. If you can just get your hands on one stove load of dry wood it would tell you a lot about where to go from there. I still think your cats are likely bad but other issues are more prevalent right now.

I base my thinking on the bypass not contributing greatly to your problem on the fact that I forgot to close mine one night before bed. Embarrassing story but nothing was hurt and after 10 hours of burning I had close to the amount of wood left I would have if I had closed it.

Is your wood cut, split, and stacked? Drying really doesn't start until all three are done.if it is in a pile then that is hurting you.

Ok yes we just went out yesterday and cut down some trees that are dead standing and got them split up and stacked to get them starting to dry good and we are thinking of trying to buy a load from someone local that is dry for sure, next time we are in town we will be buying a moisture reader to test the wood for sure.

 

[BlazekingKING]

We cleaned the chimney today and cleaned out rain cap which embarrassingly enough was not good at all, thanks to everyone who mentioned it, sometimes I get to wrapped up trying to solve the problem that I don't notice the obvious!

 

[Woody Stover]

We cleaned the chimney today and cleaned out rain cap

Report back if you notice a difference (and I'm guessing you will.)

 

[tarzan]

Just remember that good draft and dry wood is the key to happiness

You have a great stove there and once you get the problems ironed out it will seem like a different stove than the one that has you pulling your hair out now. The main thing is staying warm and "safe".

As Woody said, please report back on how it's going.

 

[BlazekingKING]

Just remember that good draft and dry wood is the key to happiness

You have a great stove there and once you get the problems ironed out it will seem like a different stove than the one that has you pulling your hair out now. The main thing is staying warm and "safe".

As Woody said, please report back on how it's going.

I will we had used this stove the end of last winter, and this winter and have struggled since day one....I'm hoping this helps!

 

[BlazekingKING]

One more question we got one of the burn indicator thermometer's for the stove pipe and it aid that every stove is different as to what is a good burn and what isn't does Anyone have any ideas on that?

 

[BlazekingKING]

One more question we got one of the burn indicator thermometer's for the stove pipe and it aid that every stove is different as to what is a good burn and what isn't does Anyone have any ideas on that?

does the fan affect the temperature greatly? Or can fans cause cresote build up because it cools the pipe?

 

[Ashful]

I will we had used this stove the end of last winter, and this winter and have struggled since day one....I'm hoping this helps!

Well, there are many here heating more space than you, very well with that stove. It will do the job nicely, once you get over this hump. Wet wood plagues just about every newcomer to this site / we've all been there.

 

[Squisher]

does the fan affect the temperature greatly? Or can fans cause cresote build up because it cools the pipe?

You should leave that fan off if it's blowing on the pipe or the stove like it looks like in the pic.

 

[Woody Stover]

One more question we got one of the burn indicator thermometer's for the stove pipe and it aid that every stove is different as to what is a good burn and what isn't does Anyone have any ideas on that?

Some stoves send less heat up the flue, the BK being one of them, so may be getting a good burn even though the meter is in the "creosote" range on the meter.

does the fan affect the temperature greatly? Or can fans cause cresote build up because it cools the pipe?

I think wood moisture is the bigger problem than the fans. As was mentioned, the fans will cool the stove initially but the thermostat will open to compensate, causing the stove (and exhaust) to be hotter. I'm assuming you don't have the blower for the stove since you have the pedestal fan blowing on it?

 

[mellow]

This is a recreation of an older video that I can't find, but I love the part the guy sticks his hand into the chimney pipe at around the 2 minute mark.

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[tarzan]

It appears you do have a blower/fan kit on your stove?

When your stove is ruining right the cat should be eating most of the smoke. You will bonus from this in two ways. 1.By burning particulates in the smoke the cat will provide heat that would otherwise be lost out the stack in an older design stove. This will be especially noticably at low burns. 2.You will also benefit from a chimney that stays much cleaner from the cat doing its job.

An easy check is simply walk outside and see what's coming out your chimney. There should be little to no smoke if everything is working right.

Modern stoves such as yours do not like wet wood. They simply can't do what they were designed to do when you feed them wet wood. Sure, you can limp them along but life will be much better with low moisture fuel.

The BK in particular runs with a cool flue. This is a result of very good efficiency but also is in general the reason proper draft is critical to this stove for it to run right.

The easiest, and most important thing you can do is get your hands on some dry wood. If the stove runs right, then great, easy fix! If the dry wood helps but doesn't completely solve the problem then it's time to move on to step two in the fix. I suspect you will fight with draft to some extint with your setup but hopefully it can be exceptable with little to no more time and money.

I would also move the floor fan. If the blowers on the stove are working it isn't necessary. If they aren't there or aren't working then maybe try the fan in front of the stove pulling warm air. There are many threads here about distributing the heat around your house with fans. You could do a search for some ideas.

 

[BlazekingKING]

You should leave that fan off if it's blowing on the pipe or the stove like it looks like in the pic.

Ya I have two fans one on each side of the back of the stove due to the way my house is set up the heat doesn't travel to the far rooms such as the kitchen and living room

 

[BlazekingKING]

Some stoves send less heat up the flue, the BK being one of them, so may be getting a good burn even though the meter is in the "creosote" range on the meter.
I think wood moisture is the bigger problem than the fans. As was mentioned, the fans will cool the stove initially but the thermostat will open to compensate, causing the stove (and exhaust) to be hotter. I'm assuming you don't have the blower for the stove since you have the pedestal fan blowing on it?

I have the blower but I have the other fan so I can direct the heat to some other rooms

 

[Highbeam]

One more question we got one of the burn indicator thermometer's for the stove pipe and it aid that every stove is different as to what is a good burn and what isn't does Anyone have any ideas on that?

When everything is running right, that surface magnet thermometer located 12" above the stove on the single wall should read at about 250 during a medium/low cruise once everything has settled in for a long burn.

 

[BlazekingKING]

It appears you do have a blower/fan kit on your stove?

When your stove is ruining right the cat should be eating most of the smoke. You will bonus from this in two ways. 1.By burning particulates in the smoke the cat will provide heat that would otherwise be lost out the stack in an older design stove. This will be especially noticably at low burns. 2.You will also benefit from a chimney that stays much cleaner from the cat doing its job.

An easy check is simply walk outside and see what's coming out your chimney. There should be little to no smoke if everything is working right.

Modern stoves such as yours do not like wet wood. They simply can't do what they were designed to do when you feed them wet wood. Sure, you can limp them along but life will be much better with low moisture fuel.

The BK in particular runs with a cool flue. This is a result of very good efficiency but also is in general the reason proper draft is critical to this stove for it to run right.

The easiest, and most important thing you can do is get your hands on some dry wood. If the stove runs right, then great, easy fix! If the dry wood helps but doesn't completely solve the problem then it's time to move on to step two in the fix. I suspect you will fight with draft to some extint with your setup but hopefully it can be exceptable with little to no more time and money.

I would also move the floor fan. If the blowers on the stove are working it isn't necessary. If they aren't there or aren't working then maybe try the fan in front of the stove pulling warm air. There are many threads here about distributing the heat around your house with fans. You could do a search for some ideas.

Ok yes I will look for the other the other threads later! My house is long and shut off and I have been experimenting with the fans to find what helps warm all my rooms and this had worked the best to get the other rooms warm

 

[BlazekingKING]

When everything is running right, that surface magnet thermometer located 12" above the stove on the single wall should read at about 250 during a medium/low cruise once everything has settled in for a long burn.

Last night was the first night I saw that thermometer read over 200. But once the stove was turned down to a 2 it dropped.

 

[Highbeam]

Last night was the first night I saw that thermometer read over 200. But once the stove was turned down to a 2 it dropped.

Don't obsess too much over the flue temperature for a few reasons.

1) The meters aren't really accurate. Often +/- 50 degrees.
2) You seem to be burning wet wood and as such lots of steam is being boiled off which will cool the gasses.
3) Fans blowing on this type of thermometer will reduce the reading. Turn the fans off for 15 minutes to get a reading.

My house is 75 degrees inside and I run my BK as low as possible to maintain that temperature with excellent quality firewood. I measure internal flue gas temperature with a probe meter since I have double wall pipe and I get 400 during a low cruise which corresponds with 200 on the surface as you would measure using a magnetic stick on meter. Some folks on this site will report even cooler temperatures.

The cat meter is more important than a flue temperature meter. Be sure the cat stays active and only worry about keeping the flue clean.

 

[Highbeam]

Last night was the first night I saw that thermometer read over 200. But once the stove was turned down to a 2 it dropped.

A couple of thoughts on why your stat settings have to be so high to keep an active cat.

1) Have you verified that the knob is on tight and right? When you turn the knob all the way up it should stop spinning and be pointing straight to the floor. Check that and tell us what you find.
2) Your wet wood. A normal catalyst will only be able to burn smoke, and stay active, when it is being fed 500 degree smoke. If your fire is a cold, hissing, slobbery, mess then the only way it will make 500 degree smoke is if you feed it significant air which is only done at higher stat settings. We've all sat around a campfire made with wet wood. It doesn't make much heat until it gets big.
3) As catalytic combustors get old and wear out, or lose effectiveness from poison, they stop working at low temperatures. Like they need to be at 700 vs. 500 to create the reaction. New cats in new BKs have a 10 year warranty but I still expect no more than 5 years before replacement to keep things working nicely. We don't really know how old your cat is or whether it was partially poisoned.
4) Your fire. We haven't seen your wood or the way you load this thing. The king can be filled to the top with small splits of wood. In your shoes I would be splitting small, like 3-5 inches across the longest dimension, and loading loosely to the top. Load straight in so that when you look in the window you see the butt ends of the splits, we call this north/south loading.
5) Your weakfish draft. Since your chimney is less than ideal it doesn't suck as much air through the little opening in the stat. To overcome this, you need a more open stat to get the same amount of air to the stove. Setting 2 is right in the middle so you still have lots of effective range either way. It's not a bad place to run the stove. When your stove was new it was only required to have 12 feet of chimney. You meet the minimum spec so don't worry about this. Just know that you're on the bottom end so you will probably never be able to run below the gold "normal" range which I believe ends at 1.75 or so.

 

[BlazekingKING]

Don't obsess too much over the flue temperature for a few reasons.

1) The meters aren't really accurate. Often +/- 50 degrees.
2) You seem to be burning wet wood and as such lots of steam is being boiled off which will cool the gasses.
3) Fans blowing on this type of thermometer will reduce the reading. Turn the fans off for 15 minutes to get a reading.

My house is 75 degrees inside and I run my BK as low as possible to maintain that temperature with excellent quality firewood. I measure internal flue gas temperature with a probe meter since I have double wall pipe and I get 400 during a low cruise which corresponds with 200 on the surface as you would measure using a magnetic stick on meter. Some folks on this site will report even cooler temperatures.

The cat meter is more important than a flue temperature meter. Be sure the cat stays active and only worry about keeping the flue clean.

Ok thank you!