Blaze King choice is driving me crazey!!!!

[Todd]

The flue gases with the BK will be at 250F or less once the load settles down for 85% of the burn on med to low settings. The Idea is to keep the heat in the stove when properly operating. This is why the attempt is to go double wall to maintain minimum flue temp as there is all that is left. 212F at atmosphere assuming your at sea level. At higher elevations it takes a lower temp to maintain a none condensing flue gas. Remember it takes less heat to boil water at a higher elevation.

250 internal flue gas temp? Or is that temp on the external pipe? I can see why they push that double wall pipe and 36" rise. My internal temps are double that.

 

[North of 60]

Probe type inside double wall at 19" Todd.

 

[Todd]

Wow, those low flue gas temps are a sure sign of high efficiency in my opinion. And I can see why they would be pretty draft sensitive.

 

[Manatarms]

So who makes the best double wall? Simpson Dura-Vent DVL with DuraTach chimney? ICC ULTRAblack with Excel chimney?

-Mark

 

[Highbeam]

I use the DVL and it feels like very good quality. The only gripe I have which may be common across all brands is the cheezy snap lok connector piece that attaches to the ceiling support box with little push tabs and NO screws. It would be hard to trust that hokey connection on anything but a completely vertical interior pipe run for fear it would fall out.

 

[Wet1]

Mark,

I've used the DVL in the past and have nothing but good things to say about it. I think I might try the Selkirk DSP this time around, just to test it out.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Mark,

I've used the DVL in the past and have nothing but good things to say about it. I think I might try the Selkirk DSP this time around, just to test it out.

One issue you might consider, if you need to have an offset at all (the stove flue collar is
not exacrly lined up with your Class A chimney) is that the Simpson allows a 4.5" minimum
offset, whereas the Selkirk allows only 6". This is without any add'l pipe between the two
45-degree elbows. I need a 4" offset, so I gotta go Simpson - unless there's a third brand
of which I'm unaware.

I hope the Simpson works ok with my existing Selkirk Class A chimney. At least I HOPE
i'ts Class A - the documentation calls it "Model SSII" chimney, but as far as I can tell, there
is no mention of "Class A". Perhaps this is a rating system put into place after my house
was built in 1987 ?? It is clearly the right stuff ...

 

[53flyer]

Bigg_Redd, I will let my cynicism shine through and boldly suggest the $1,000 price difference between the east and west coasts is local market monopoly required/suggested by the manufacturer and greed. I will readily admit to being a terrible business person. However, it is my belief that making a little money on a sale is better than not making the sale.

My stove was purchased via the internet because my nearest acceptable dealer is 1.5 hours away. They are a very successful dealership employing friendly and knowledgeable workers. When I asked if he would drive to my house and make repairs under warranty, he said he might if he had a number of service calls in my area. However, I might have to wait a month or two before he had other calls in my area. Otherwise he would just send me whatever parts were needed and I would have to make the repair myself and pay to ship the bad parts back to him. Well heck, I can get that kind of warranty/service from any dealer in the good ole' USA so I purchased online and saved a couple of dollars. Too heck with what the manufacturer wants.

Just a cynical thought and some personal experience.

John_M

I have no problem with BK setting whatever price they want as long as there is no fraud or coercion - This is America, after all. What I can't understand is how the market bears $1000 more per unit in half the country.

Yes, this is America, after all. Stores should all be allowed to charge whatever, and sell to "whomever" they want but obviously this is not the case for these dealers. As far as coercion goes, there is a bit of that on BK's part if their using force (threatening to pull dealerships or the like) to keep stores from making an internet sale outside their "area". That may be something dealers just have to accept if they want to sell BK's but it is a form of coercion (intimidation to obtain compliance).

Collectively setting a fixed price that everyone agrees to charge would be a form of collusion but hat’s doesn’t appear to be the case here. It just appears that BK is preventing dealers from having a completely free market which would promote better competition/pricing. Some of the dealers are using this fact to keep their prices artificially higher but, as was said earlier, it’s also preventing BK stoves from getting as much of a foothold, due to lost sales, in areas that charge the crazy prices.

I absolutely prefer free markets which definitely are being inhibited by these practices. There’s actually a pretty good chance that in the not too distant future we’ll see more free markets (farmers markets, bartering, and the like) because if we keep printing money and expanding the national debt limits we’ll get to the point where our economy falters simply because our balance sheet will be worthless. No budget works (not long anyway) with the philosophy that if you don't have enough money you should just charge (print if you're a government) more and more and more of it. I truly hope that doesn’t happen but we’re currently on the fast track in that direction and that's a hole different America... Ok, so that might have been a little off topic but it does relate to the forming of free markets. :zip:

 

[tickbitty]

It's crazy reading about the price fixing. There are car dealerships in every town, sometimes on every corner. One can readily find out the MSRP online, on the stickers, with all the options or without, etc. Not a lot of mystery in it. Some will try to move more by selling in volume or having sales, some will work with you on price but might not provide great service, some you might pay a little more but you know they will provide good service. Some sales departments play hardball and some are more flexible, but regardless you know what the car is "supposed" to cost and have a general baseline. I am kinda wondering why these stove manufacturers don't present an MSRP and let the stores work out how they want to sell the stoves based on that. Doesn't really make any sense to me that they would put the gag order on them. I guess the reason this comparison does not hold is because there are not stove stores in every town so each store (or many stores anyway) has it's own mini-monopoly thing going on?

 

[53flyer]

I am kinda wondering why these stove manufacturers don't present an MSRP and let the stores work out how they want to sell the stoves based on that. Doesn't really make any sense to me that they would put the gag order on them. I guess the reason this comparison does not hold is because there are not stove stores in every town so each store (or many stores anyway) has it's own mini-monopoly thing going on?

I think the baseline MSRP for the PI1010A in all black is $2,595 (around here) because I've heard that exact same figure from a few places but some have also mentioned potentially better prices and one that broke it down by stove, door, and surround. One of salesman at a $2595 store told me they typically have sales of 20-30% off in the summer and the stove should be around $1950'ish.

 

[tickbitty]

Yeah I don't really even mean for BK specifically, although they seem to be an extreme example due to the disparity on coasts, but all the major manufacturers who sell through dealers seem to find it important to make their prices a "secret." I am shopping Lopi stoves and have visited one shop and called that same shop and two others an hour in either direction of me for prices and they are all identical when it comes down to it, and usually I have to give them the model number and everything and then they check their lists or call the manufacturer and give me what is apparently the MSRP, the prices have all been within a few bucks of one another. Nothing wrong with that but why couldn't somebody just put it on the internet, then when you know what you are faced with you can go to the dealer and see if they want to "deal" or sell it MSRP. It just seems to go against common sense for them to not give an idea of prices online.

 

[hardcore]

Not sure If I'm too late.... Haven't read the whole thread, but my friend has a Blaze king Classic and he probably only has 12 inches straight up off the king, then a 90 with a slight slight rise to a 30 bend horizontally then some more pipe to a 90 degree and then up about 15'

Not the best setup, but his blaze king is amazing! It is so efficient, it puts my jotul to shame... Except the fact that my jotul looks much much nicer imo, but for pure heating performance, nothing beats the king.

I can get the exact measurements if you want.

I should probably read this whole thread though, maybe I am too late.

My saga - I first started looking at the BK King Classic, found a good price on line and took advice from you guys on previous threads. Downloaded the manual and started reading to be informed about installation. In the manual it says to have a minimum of a 36 inch rise out of the stove before placing any elbows. Then says that BK recommends 2 45's vs a 90 degree elbow. Also says they recommend double wall pipe out of the stove but single wall will work.

I took some measurements based on the stove specks and found I would only have 26 inches total from the top of stove to the thimble. I called BK and talked with them about my issue. They were adamant about the double walled stove pipe due to the efficiency of the stove and the fact of me running it into an outside masonry chimney. When I asked about the 36 inch rise they had a big concern that I would have drafting issues after the cat was engaged because of the short length of upward travel before the first 45 degree elbow which would have been about 16 to 18 inches above the stove vs the 36 they recommend. Now it gets interesting. BK now tells me that he would highly recommend the Princes model to heat my 3000 sq. ft. house and again was adamant that I would be more than pleased with its performance. Then he states because it only takes a 6 inch flue I would have no issues with draft at all.


What do you guys think? Any BK King Guys with less than the 36 inch rise having an issue? Does the efficiency argument for draft sound right?

Princes Owners- Will the Princes do what I would be asking it to do. Stove in basement at foot of open stairs with an open floor plan upstairs. 1500 ft up stairs, same in basement, I can close some doors to lower my sq. ft.

Sorry for the long rant.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I think the $1000 price disparity was back when Auto-Rain was selling their
stove at no profit. That's right. Shortly after they recently got groan-slapped
by BK for selling outside their district, their website prices increased fairly
dramatically, and someone here posted that they had made a mistake and
were selling the stoves for very little markup. So I don't think the price
discrepancy is quite that great, especially when you factor in $300 or so
to ship one to the east coast. Of course, there's sales tax ...

 

[SolarAndWood]

So I don't think the price
discrepancy is quite that great, especially when you factor in $300 or so
to ship one to the east coast.

Thats not what I found unless the ferry across the Mississippi costs a grand.

 

[Wet1]

So I don't think the price
discrepancy is quite that great, especially when you factor in $300 or so
to ship one to the east coast.

Thats not what I found unless the ferry across the Mississippi costs a grand.

Same here...

 

[Lazy Flame]

Lol. Finally drove the 3hrs and picked up a king parlour in Mishiwaka indiana (Amish central, the teens were drag racing their "coaches" while we were there) Paid approx $2400 for the stove. Completely basic w/no frills.

The dealer was selling Duratech. For my configuration they were quoteing me about $5000 in pipe. I had no real idea what I was doing but I'm very handy.

I had planned on buying the majority of the pipe while I was there but their in-store help sucked so bad I was so pissed off after a 1/2hour I started walking away from my special order stove and driving home empty handed, but my wifey made me stick it out.

There were newlywed kids and first time buyers in there saying stuff like "but dude! the pipes costin more than the stove!"

F#kkin thieves. Praying on the ignorant. I don't think Amish use the internet much??

Point bein I went to Menards and bought all the Selkirk pipe i needed for about a grand. And I got 10% off the sticker price on every single piece.

Fyi- All 8 inch. 3' double wall riser inside, twin 45's, generic thimble, T and stand outside w/15' of riser including boots and supports. I slammed it together in a short day w/no problems.

Thanx for all the input and help guys!! I'm super happy w/our purchase and sittin warm @12degrees in a 100yo 2500sq' home