Tenn Dave
Minister of Fire
sorry Highbeam - it was an uncalled for knee jerk reaction on my part.
BK Princess need help
- Thread starter Illinois burner
- Start date
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- Status
Yes. The OP went from one well liked stove to another well liked stove. He liked one better but there is the matter of equity.We know he is happy with the summit, he said so.
alforit
Feeling the Heat
Being happy is a wonderful thing. I have a Princess and am grateful to have not experienced any of the OP's problems.
Tenn Dave
Minister of Fire
You take the money, I'll settle for being happy. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Well, I am back several months later.
First, we did receive the stove back months ago. We have been too busy to work with the stove or even unwrap it until this week. I have MANY concerns based upon the condition of the stove when it arrived. EQUALLY frustrating is the easy fix/steps that may have resolved some of the burning attributes/probelms.
I personally handled this review. I removed the shrink wrap and banding straps from the stove. The front loading door was packaged off the stove. Images were taken at every step.
The first thing I noticed was the door glass was VERY clean. The original post included the fact the stove would only burn 4 hours on 35 or more pounds of fuel. With low burns, it is no secret the door glass would not be cleean but rather have build up on the glass. I hung the door on the stove. I performed a dollar bill test and the door was tight as can be.
I placed my hands on each side of the glass and the glass moved freely within the door frame! The gasket was in place but not tight whatsoever. The glass moved up, down in and out of the frame. This is where the air leak was located. Two wishes here of course. First, that WE would have done a better job of the tension and second, the dealer would have done the same inspection when in the owners home.
I then took notice that the bricks in the bottom of the stove were broken in several places. Visually, there was tremendous build up across the flame shield. I removed the flame shield. Not suprizingly, there was a golf ball size hole in the cat. However, the front surface was also dramtically plugged due to poor combustion/draft.
I examined the by pass plate and found both condition and tension on the seal to be excellent. The OP had been sent a new thermostat. The thermostat manually rotated and responded to free movements according to factory audit manual settings.
Next, we removed an R & D project from the dilution tunnel and placed the stove on the scale. I replaced the damaged combustor with a used stainless steel combustor. A coal bed was created by using dry splits and a propane torch used in order to expedite. Scale was zeroed and 45 lbs of dry (12% cord wood, soft wood/hard wood) mix was loaded into the stove on the hot coal bed. Within minutes (8-10) the cat elevated above 1000 degrees F and the thermostat was set on a medium burn rate. The time was 3:00 p.m. this past Tuesday. The scale 28 minutes later, 3:28 p.m., the fuel load was now 42 pounds. (This is typical as the water is boiled out first and contributes to greatest weight loss at the beginning of the burn).
Visual inspection showed zero smoke. Thermostat was left unadjusted and all test equipment turned on including data logger. IR gun readings 2" in front of cat therm ranged from 457 (low) and 750 (high)
14 hours later, the cat dropped below 500 degrees F. Again, this was a medium burn rate.
NOTE: This 14 hour burn was with the original door untouched. Glass was clean 14 hours later (in the a.m.)
Conclusion: Door glass leak resulted in poor performance and customer frustration. The leak took out the cat. Poor draft contributed to low temps, resulting is excessive coaling experienced by OP. Pictures will be posted if need be, but I think you all get the idea.
One perfectly good Princess Ultra, with a new door, stainless cat now for sale! (just kidding...we'll donate it to a charity).
Thank you all for trying to help the OP and we are all pleased he is happy with the stove he has.
First, we did receive the stove back months ago. We have been too busy to work with the stove or even unwrap it until this week. I have MANY concerns based upon the condition of the stove when it arrived. EQUALLY frustrating is the easy fix/steps that may have resolved some of the burning attributes/probelms.
I personally handled this review. I removed the shrink wrap and banding straps from the stove. The front loading door was packaged off the stove. Images were taken at every step.
The first thing I noticed was the door glass was VERY clean. The original post included the fact the stove would only burn 4 hours on 35 or more pounds of fuel. With low burns, it is no secret the door glass would not be cleean but rather have build up on the glass. I hung the door on the stove. I performed a dollar bill test and the door was tight as can be.
I placed my hands on each side of the glass and the glass moved freely within the door frame! The gasket was in place but not tight whatsoever. The glass moved up, down in and out of the frame. This is where the air leak was located. Two wishes here of course. First, that WE would have done a better job of the tension and second, the dealer would have done the same inspection when in the owners home.
I then took notice that the bricks in the bottom of the stove were broken in several places. Visually, there was tremendous build up across the flame shield. I removed the flame shield. Not suprizingly, there was a golf ball size hole in the cat. However, the front surface was also dramtically plugged due to poor combustion/draft.
I examined the by pass plate and found both condition and tension on the seal to be excellent. The OP had been sent a new thermostat. The thermostat manually rotated and responded to free movements according to factory audit manual settings.
Next, we removed an R & D project from the dilution tunnel and placed the stove on the scale. I replaced the damaged combustor with a used stainless steel combustor. A coal bed was created by using dry splits and a propane torch used in order to expedite. Scale was zeroed and 45 lbs of dry (12% cord wood, soft wood/hard wood) mix was loaded into the stove on the hot coal bed. Within minutes (8-10) the cat elevated above 1000 degrees F and the thermostat was set on a medium burn rate. The time was 3:00 p.m. this past Tuesday. The scale 28 minutes later, 3:28 p.m., the fuel load was now 42 pounds. (This is typical as the water is boiled out first and contributes to greatest weight loss at the beginning of the burn).
Visual inspection showed zero smoke. Thermostat was left unadjusted and all test equipment turned on including data logger. IR gun readings 2" in front of cat therm ranged from 457 (low) and 750 (high)
14 hours later, the cat dropped below 500 degrees F. Again, this was a medium burn rate.
NOTE: This 14 hour burn was with the original door untouched. Glass was clean 14 hours later (in the a.m.)
Conclusion: Door glass leak resulted in poor performance and customer frustration. The leak took out the cat. Poor draft contributed to low temps, resulting is excessive coaling experienced by OP. Pictures will be posted if need be, but I think you all get the idea.
One perfectly good Princess Ultra, with a new door, stainless cat now for sale! (just kidding...we'll donate it to a charity).
Thank you all for trying to help the OP and we are all pleased he is happy with the stove he has.
Thanks for the follow up! It's really too bad the door glass issue wasn't caught by quality before it went out or when the dealer made the visit. We'll have to add that question to the list of questions we ask when people are experiencing issues.
If you get any Princess inserts you want to sell as refurbished units let me know! My living would like the addition this coming winter.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Thanks for the follow up! It's really too bad the door glass issue wasn't caught by quality before it went out or when the dealer made the visit. We'll have to add that question to the list of questions we ask when people are experiencing issues.
If you get any Princess inserts you want to sell as refurbished units let me know! My living would like the addition this coming winter.
We try to use what few stoves we run across for charity or church camp donations. But thank you.
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
Its great to see the follow up and what the root cause was. The problems he was experiencing were a first for any of the princesses I have seen here.
Am I the only one to notice the wooden Tee support?
Illinois burner, get a proper Tee support on there as soon as possible!
alforit
Feeling the Heat
HUH ?? Confused here.
You said the door was untouched ? Meaning you didn't adjust the loose glass ? And you got a 14 hour burn? That's pretty normal on a medium settting. The OP was getting around 4 hours. So then the only thing you did was replace the cat for this test. That doesn't completely add up.How did the OP not see this tremendous build up on the heat shield ? And the golf ball sized hole in the cat ? Along with it being dramatically plugged ?
He was asked several times to check the cat for its condition if I remember right. How did he miss all that ?
We could have helped him a lot more by getting a report of that condition and damage going on. Still not adding up here.
Whats up with the broken bricks ? I hit mine a lot by accident when I am breaking up my coals for reload and I have never fractured one yet.
Hmmmm
HUH ?? Confused here.
How did the OP not see this tremendous build up on the heat shield ? And the golf ball sized hole in the cat ? Along with it being dramatically plugged ?
He was asked several times to check the cat for its condition if I remember right. How did he miss all that ?
We could have helped him a lot more by getting a report of that condition and damage going on. Still not adding up here.
Whats up with the broken bricks ? I hit mine a lot by accident when I am breaking up my coals for reload and I have never fractured one yet.
Hmmmm
I'm thinking the cat fell apart when it was shipped assuming it was ceramic. I'm sure the dealer wouldn't have missed a golf ball sized hole. The 14hr burn was when the cat went inactive, the OP had trouble with it heating the place, it was probably cranked on high and was left with a pile of coals after 4 hours. I couldn't burn a full load down to nothing in 4 hours if I tried.
Well, no. I refrained from comment on that before. It wasn't related to the issue at hand, but yeah, that could be bad news.
Interesting follow up.
I agree it was damaged from the leaking gasket. I just don't buy that it had a golf ball sized hole in it that the dealer and OP missed. If the dealer missed a golf ball sized hole when they went to visit BK should yank them as a distributor of their stove or provide them with more training. You know and I know it doesn't get much easier than removing the flame guard on the Princess to see the cat in this stove.
Very interesting reading, I do believe the dealer was at his house with it burning- not easy to inspect anything internally or glass at that point. Some times we all do miss the obvious things, but in all fairness, the glass left the factory loose. Happy to report we sold many BK Princesses this past season, everyone seemed happy, haven't heard otherwise. Doesn't surprise to hear he likes his Summit, big honking steel stoves are easy to like and burn. Good luck to us all.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
For the size of the hole in the cat, there was ZERO ceramic material laying loose. It was most definitely not a freight damage issue. It is troubling that it was ot noticed. Also, the flame shield had extensive deposits which would have been quite visible.
One thing I find confusing here, there definitely was an unfamiliarity on this stove by (apparently) the dealer, the op and to a degree all of us for not thinking the basics about too much airflow (and reasons that could cause it) through this stove. But, why was BK's sales rep for his area not involved? Seems the dealer would have gotten him involved as obviously this customer was struggling to find a reason. I know our sales rep here locally has answered a couple of my questions IRT operations, cat info, etc. I mean, that is one reason for a sales rep- to help in these issues, his/her familiarity with his particular stoves sometimes is what is needed. We're all glad it got resolved, but the stove took a pounding it sounds like.
BKVP
Minister of Fire
Blaze King did not have sales reps in all regions. We have nearly every region now covered and the ones we have know the product. (we are still recruitiing for a couple of regions) Candidly, there were phone calls and other communications to the OP (some by myself) asking about the very nature or condition of components. I am going to leave this alone from this point.
Over and out......
- Status
