BK Princess Insert with Uninsulated Liner in CT?

[PelletPractitioner]

We have a gas fireplace we’re going to install a wood insert into. Pacific Energy T5 or Blaze King Princess. I want the BK for the burn times and low burn temps.

The installer says there isn’t enough room for an insulated liner, and that will void the BK warranty and they won’t guarantee proper operation. However, the chimney is inside the house in a corner against two walls. The bricks and blocks are all inside the framing of the house. for about 18’, then pass through 4’ of Uninsulated attic and a few feet above the roof. The installer thinks it has a reasonable chance of working.

Average Jan high/lows are 24/33F.

Think the princess would work with a ~20’ inside chimney in 24F weather with an uninsulated liner?

 

[kennyp2339]

I dont think you should have an issue with an interior chimney, the only thing you'll need to make sure is that the existing chimney has the proper 2" air space clearance from combustibles (framing and wall) check this by going in the attic.
The average temp from smoke to condense is 250f, the BK outlet temp when running low and slow is about 350 - 400deg f, so you have 100deg f on average to play with going up the flue, where as an epa re-burn stove will cruise between 600 - 800deg f outlet temps, so its much hotter

 

[bholler]

We have a gas fireplace we’re going to install a wood insert into. Pacific Energy T5 or Blaze King Princess. I want the BK for the burn times and low burn temps.

The installer says there isn’t enough room for an insulated liner, and that will void the BK warranty and they won’t guarantee proper operation. However, the chimney is inside the house in a corner against two walls. The bricks and blocks are all inside the framing of the house. for about 18’, then pass through 4’ of Uninsulated attic and a few feet above the roof. The installer thinks it has a reasonable chance of working.

Average Jan high/lows are 24/33F.

Think the princess would work with a ~20’ inside chimney in 24F weather with an uninsulated liner?

Why is there not enough room for an insulated liner? And did he check for required clearances? Improved performance is only one part of the reason to insulate. And honestly it is not as important as the safety aspect

 

[begreen]

We have a gas fireplace we’re going to install a wood insert into. Pacific Energy T5 or Blaze King Princess. I want the BK for the burn times and low burn temps.

The installer says there isn’t enough room for an insulated liner, and that will void the BK warranty and they won’t guarantee proper operation. However, the chimney is inside the house in a corner against two walls. The bricks and blocks are all inside the framing of the house. for about 18’, then pass through 4’ of Uninsulated attic and a few feet above the roof. The installer thinks it has a reasonable chance of working.

Average Jan high/lows are 24/33F.

Think the princess would work with a ~20’ inside chimney in 24F weather with an uninsulated liner?

It may work, but it also may not conform to code. Can you verify that the chimney has 2" clearance from combustibles all the way up through the roof?

@PelletPractitioner , what is the ID of the chimney? Is it currently tile-lined?

 

[GinaC]

My installer only put in a steel liner, not insulated. He said that it wasn't needed because my fireplace is also inside the house. I haven't had any issues.

 

[bholler]

My installer only put in a steel liner, not insulated. He said that it wasn't needed because my fireplace is also inside the house. I haven't had any issues.

Inside the house doesn't mean it is code compliant or safe to use an uninsulated liner. And just because nothing has happened yet doesn't mean it won't. Nothing ever happens untill it does.

 

[GinaC]

The guy who installed it is a CSIA chimney sweep. It wasn't some cowboy down the street.

 

[bholler]

The guy who installed it is a CSIA chimney sweep. It wasn't some cowboy down the street.

That simply means he took and passed a test. How long did he take inspecting the area around the chimney before deciding it didn't need insulation? How many test holes did he still to check for clearances?

Code clearly requires 2" clearance to combustibles between the outside of the masonry chimney structure for an internal chimney. If you don't have that insulation is absolutely required for safety reasons

 

[GinaC]

He inspected the entire thing with a camera, and rebuilt the entire chimney.

Also, I'm more inclined to believe someone who has been installing stoves for 30 years over some internet armchair jockey.

 

[bholler]

He inspected the entire thing with a camera, and rebuilt the entire chimney.

Also, I'm more inclined to believe someone who has been installing stoves for 30 years over some internet armchair jockey.

Not exactly an armchair jockey here sorry this is what I do for a living. Inspecting inside doesn't tell you about clearances outside. If he rebuilt the entire chimney did he allow the proper clearances?

 

[bholler]

Read code # 1003.18 in IRC which does apply to Vermont

 

[GinaC]

So because I'm a woman I have no idea what I'm talking about, right?

My retailer and my installer both spoke to folks at Blaze King to make sure that I had the appropriate dimensions and install.

To the OP, my fireplace is not in a corner, so the situation is slightly different. I would have your installer and retailer both contact Blaze King the way mine did.

 

[begreen]

He inspected the entire thing with a camera, and rebuilt the entire chimney.

Also, I'm more inclined to believe someone who has been installing stoves for 30 years over some internet armchair jockey.

No need to throw about false assumptions. bholler is a career pro and CSIA certified. He dad was also an installer. We are happy to have women on board here. No one is talking down here, he just sited the governing code. This is a safety issue which is what this site is about. The OP's installation is what is the focus here.

 

[GinaC]

No need to throw about false assumptions. bholler is a career pro and CSIA certified. He dad was also an installer. We are happy to have women on board here. No one is talking down here, he just sited the governing code. This is a safety issue which is what this site is about. The OP's installation is what is the focus here.

How about nobody throws around assumptions that my stove insert is installed incorrectly and unsafely due to my ignorance?

 

[bholler]

So because I'm a woman I have no idea what I'm talking about, right?

My retailer and my installer both spoke to folks at Blaze King to make sure that I had the appropriate dimensions and install.

No it has absolutely nothing to do with you being a woman. Many men are given in accurate info by installers all the time as well. I am trying to supply the correct info

 

[bholler]

How about nobody throws around assumptions that my stove insert is installed incorrectly and unsafely due to my ignorance?

I simply questioned if proper clearances were checked for because they are almost never there. It is not your job to research and understand all of the applicable codes. That is the job of your installer. Unfortunately many installers don't take that job as seriously as they should. And the op should base their decision on the issue based on what code and manufacturers say concerning safety and performance. Not what some guy who took a test says.

 

[begreen]

How about nobody throws around assumptions that my stove insert is installed incorrectly and unsafely due to my ignorance?

Nothing of the sort was said or implied. A question was asked about the chimney clearances. That's all. This thread is about a new installation and proper code information is being given.

 

[PelletPractitioner]

From pictures the installer guessed ID is big enough for 6” and no insulation. Appears to be cinder blocks and clay tile liner from what I can see from the roof. From the opening looking up I can just see cinder block.

 

[bholler]

From pictures the installer guessed ID is big enough for 6” and no insulation. Appears to be cinder blocks and clay tile liner from what I can see from the roof. From the opening looking up I can just see cinder block.

Chances are you don't have the required clearances so you need insulation. There is almost always a way to fit insulation. And if not it can't be done properly and should not be done

 

[PelletPractitioner]

Cinder blocks straight up through the attic with insulation and framing around it. I would think that counts as 2”?

 

[bholler]

Cinder blocks straight up through the attic with insulation and framing around it. I would think that counts as 2”?

No you need 2" between the cinder blocks and the framing. Masonry is a very good conductor of heat. And over time that heat slowly lowers the ignition point of the wood until it gets to a point it ignites.

 

[begreen]

We have a gas fireplace we’re going to install a wood insert into.

Can you describe this a bit more? Is this a masonry fireplace with gas logs or a factory build gas fireplace?

Knowing the chimney ID would really help with suggesting options

 

[PelletPractitioner]

Pellet insert it is then.

 

[bholler]

Pellet insert it is then.

Why? Just because one guy said there wasn't room doesn't mean it can't be done

 

[kennyp2339]

One of the biggest things I see here is that many people think there strapped to have a stove located only in a certain area due to an existing chimney, if the chimney cannot compliment a stove due to clearances or other issues you can simply choose a different location and install a metal class A chimney as the outlet.
Also for your case specifically, have you asked for a quote to remove the existing clay liner to accommodate an insulated liner?