Big changes are happening in transportation

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Another difference is the internet and a generation of kids inheriting this mess that are now old enough to do something about it.

Yes, I think that should be the answer.

Right now, based upon this demographics' turnout at recent elections, they aren't yet doing what they need to do.

Also, notice what cars are being purchased. GM is exiting the sedan market where the most fuel efficient non-electric cars are being sold, in favor of SUVs, and discontinuing the Volt. Hyundai is about to start selling a big SUV and a pick up.

I share your philosophy and hope, but not your optimism.

 

[sportbikerider78]

I'm making the point that it is coming. Alll of the doubts about electric cars were the same as combustion engined vehicles. Gas stations didn't pop up when cars were invented. It just needs more time.

That's not really accurate to say. Electric has struggles, but completely different struggles than gas did.
So people are going to sit around waiting for their cars to charge on big trips? That certainly isn't how I do trips now.

All I want is for the EPA to get its head out of it's proverbial a** so we can get some really nice diesels over here in the US like they have in Europe. My parents rented a diesel Nissan SUV that got great mpg while they were in Switzerland. I'd love my Pathfinder to be a small 6 or turbo 4 diesel, just like they have over in Australia. I'd switch tomorrow. Lets get some tech here that is already proven, already exists, and the rest of the developed world is using.

 

[SpaceBus]

Electric is facing pretty much all of the same difficulties as the original cars did. It's fast to pump gas today, but do you think it was originally? Where would you even get the gas? Stop thinking about it like the present day. Picture in your mind the turn of the 19th century. There were no filling stations, and only the wealthy early adopters had cars. Today, with a few exceptions, you need to be fairly wealthy to buy a brand new EV, and the infrastructure is still limited. Unlike early cars though, you can at least charge your EV at home. Most peopled did not, and currently do not, have a refinery in their home.

These changes away from petroleum products will come, it will take time. The change to petroleum in the first place was also pretty slow. It took decades to get most people on board, but they still didn't convince everyone.

 

[Dantheman300z]

Along with what sportbike said.

I want someone to produce a truck like how modern locomotives are made. Not with a 16 cylinder diesel but maybe a 3 cylinder turbo diesel that is paired with the generator. Then have single electric drive motors at each wheel.

Locomotives have dynamic brakes, during that breaking at max it produces enough juice to power a small city. So a battery cell that regenerates from the braking would be neato.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Along with what sportbike said.

I want someone to produce a truck like how modern locomotives are made. Not with a 16 cylinder diesel but maybe a 3 cylinder turbo diesel that is paired with the generator. Then have single electric drive motors at each wheel.

Locomotives have dynamic brakes, during that breaking at max it produces enough juice to power a small city. So a battery cell that regenerates from the braking would be neato.

I think some hybrids work this way? Probably no pick up trucks, but maybe an SUV or two? Am I thinking of the Bolt?

I've been told that this setup can be made to be very efficient and clean, as the gas engine has a steady load on it.

 

[spirilis]

I think some hybrids work this way? Probably no pick up trucks, but maybe an SUV or two? Am I thinking of the Bolt?

I've been told that this setup can be made to be very efficient and clean, as the gas engine has a steady load on it.

Yeah hybrids and plug-in hybrids do this. It works great. Apply it to trucks and you have a neat platform. Never quite understood why nobody did this.

Bolt is a pure EV fyi

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Yeah hybrids and plug-in hybrids do this. It works great. Apply it to trucks and you have a neat platform. Never quite understood why nobody did this.

Bolt is a pure EV fyi

Volt?

Do all hybrids work this way?

Sounds interesting.

 

[jatoxico]

Check out how current Formula I race cars work these days.

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There may be better videos but essentially "waste" energy in the form of exhaust heat and brake regen etc is stored in a battery with a mechanical coupling directly to the crank shaft. Low end torque trouble? gone. Turbo lag? "Poof!"

 

[PaulOinMA]

I think some hybrids work this way? Probably no pick up trucks, but maybe an SUV or two?

My wife's 2012 Escape Hybrid has regenerative braking. It's also an Atkinson engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle

 

[spirilis]

Yw

Volt?

Do all hybrids work this way?

Sounds interesting.

Pretty much. The BMW i3 w/ Rex is slightly different in that it's an EV with a 25kW motorcycle engine generator for range extending (still considered a plug-in-hybrid but a "series" PHEV vs others that are "parallel" hybrids) but most hybrids work that way.

Look up Weber Auto on youtube, the professor John Kelly shows all kinds of good stuff on how the trannies work for those. My wife's C-Max Energi is just like the Fusion Energi trans. he talks about.

 

[SpaceBus]

Check out how current Formula I race cars work these days.

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There may be better videos but essentially "waste" energy in the form of exhaust heat and brake regen etc is stored in a battery with a mechanical coupling directly to the crank shaft. Low end torque trouble? gone. Turbo lag? "Poof!"

Wow, that's really cool that you get to work for a team! I imagine you are never home, but still cool. Many people hate the new engine formula, but the advancements in turbos, KERS, and batteries has been amazing. Yeah, the V8 sounds better, but sometimes change is good. I'm not huge into F1, but I do like the tech. To me F1 is as boring to watch as NASCAR. I like to watch amateur racing, spec Miata, crap box racing, rally, and especially amateur stuff like the Gambler 500.

 

[SpaceBus]

Volt?

Do all hybrids work this way?

Sounds interesting.

Pretty much all hybrids have regenerative braking. Some really expensive exotic hybrid super cars have a Kinetic Energy Retrieval System, also called KERS, that is basically used for passing or situations in which you need extra power. Formula 1 cars do this also and pioneered the technology. Pretty much every single advanced automotive technology has come from racing.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yw

Pretty much. The BMW i3 w/ Rex is slightly different in that it's an EV with a 25kW motorcycle engine generator for range extending (still considered a plug-in-hybrid but a "series" PHEV vs others that are "parallel" hybrids) but most hybrids work that way.

Look up Weber Auto on youtube, the professor John Kelly shows all kinds of good stuff on how the trannies work for those. My wife's C-Max Energi is just like the Fusion Energi trans. he talks about.

Is it really a motorcycle engine? I always thought it was based on the new modular engine architecture. As far as I know, it's just an automotive three cylinder. I'll have to look it up again. I would never pay money for an i3, but it's a neat car. It's also made with a lot of Carbon Fiber which is neat.

 

[spirilis]

Is it really a motorcycle engine? I always thought it was based on the new modular engine architecture. As far as I know, it's just an automotive three cylinder. I'll have to look it up again. I would never pay money for an i3, but it's a neat car. It's also made with a lot of Carbon Fiber which is neat.

You are probably right about that, I read motorcycle engine on a forum one time but they were probably speculating too.

 

[begreen]

I think some hybrids work this way? Probably no pick up trucks, but maybe an SUV or two? Am I thinking of the Bolt?

I've been told that this setup can be made to be very efficient and clean, as the gas engine has a steady load on it.

Some plugin hybrids work like this, with a genset as a range extender to compliment the battery power, but not all. Examples are the Chevy Volt, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, BMW i3 REx, These cars are electric vehicles. The ICE just powers the genset. Other hybrids like the Prius, Ford Fusion & CMax Energi the ICE powers the car supplemented by an electric motor. And then there are some that are sort of both like the Honda Clarity.

The i3 REx uses a modified BMW 650 motorcycle motor on the genset. It's range and fuel tank are small as it it only intended to get one to the next charging station and not for long drives. The Volt, Pacifica and Outlander PHEV's gensets and fuel capacity are designed for long range driving.

 

[SpaceBus]

Some plugin hybrids work like this, with a genset as a range extender to compliment the battery power, but not all. Examples are the Chevy Volt, Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, BMW i3 REx, These cars are electric vehicles. The ICE just powers the genset. Other hybrids like the Prius, Ford Fusion & CMax Energi the ICE powers the car supplemented by an electric motor. And then there are some that are sort of both like the Honda Clarity.

The i3 REx uses a modified BMW 650 motorcycle motor on the genset. It's range and fuel tank are small as it it only intended to get one to the next charging station and not for long drives. The Volt, Pacifica and Outlander PHEV's gensets and fuel capacity are designed for long range driving.

650 inline three didn't sound right, so I looked it up. Usually three cylinders of that displacement are found on Triumph Motorcycles and make over 100 HP. The 650 cc engine is an inline two cylinder. I always thought the i3 came with the new three cylinder from the i8 and the new FWD BMW sedans and hatches. You learn something new every day, The i3 engine is actually from a scooter!

 

[Redbarn]

We are now on our 2nd BMW I3 & it really is a good car.
The Rex is a 650cc BMW scooter engine that is mounted next to the electric motor on the rear LHS, under the truck floor.
For an I3 that is in Euro spec, the Rex can be switched on/off after the main battery is down past 75% SOC.
The Rex just charges the main battery & cannot provide direct motive power.
In US spec, to pass the CA CARB regs, the Rex comes on after the main battery is down to 6% SOC.
Needless to say, owners buy a smartphone App that hacks the I3 Rex operation to Euro spec.
The real beauty of the Rex is that there is zero range anxiety. You always find a charger or a gas station.

We use the I3 as an electric vehicle for daily use.
However, we make a monthly 500 mile each way trip south and have used the I3 several times.
You start with a full charge & full tank (2.3 galls) of fuel.
After the main battery is down past 75%, you turn on the Rex & run another 95 miles till the tank runs dry.
Depending on what available, you refill the gas tank & continue or use a fast charger to recharge.
The journey takes about 45 mins longer in the I3 than our ICE vehicle, mainly because of charge time.

The BMW I3 is obviously a transitional technolgy but it works well.
I’m starting to see rows of Tesla chargers appearing at large gas station stops along the interstates.
Once the oil companies realise that you can hold people at your “Energy Station” for up to 20 mins
while an EV fast charges & that these people will probably spend $ on refreshments while waiting,
I expect more & more EV charging stations to appear.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

We are now on our 2nd BMW I3 & it really is a good car.
The Rex is a 650cc BMW scooter engine that is mounted next to the electric motor on the rear LHS, under the truck floor.
For an I3 that is in Euro spec, the Rex can be switched on/off after the main battery is down past 75% SOC.
The Rex just charges the main battery & cannot provide direct motive power.
In US spec, to pass the CA CARB regs, the Rex comes on after the main battery is down to 6% SOC.
Needless to say, owners buy a smartphone App that hacks the I3 Rex operation to Euro spec.
The real beauty of the Rex is that there is zero range anxiety. You always find a charger or a gas station.

We use the I3 as an electric vehicle for daily use.
However, we make a monthly 500 mile each way trip south and have used the I3 several times.
You start with a full charge & full tank (2.3 galls) of fuel.
After the main battery is down past 75%, you turn on the Rex & run another 95 miles till the tank runs dry.
Depending on what available, you refill the gas tank & continue or use a fast charger to recharge.
The journey takes about 45 mins longer in the I3 than our ICE vehicle, mainly because of charge time.

The BMW I3 is obviously a transitional technolgy but it works well.
I’m starting to see rows of Tesla chargers appearing at large gas station stops along the interstates.
Once the oil companies realise that you can hold people at your “Energy Station” for up to 20 mins
while an EV fast charges & that these people will probably spend $ on refreshments while waiting,
I expect more & more EV charging stations to appear.

That is an excellent point. I believe the profit margin is way higher on soda, snacks, and tobacco products than on gas. $$$!

 

[SpaceBus]

We are now on our 2nd BMW I3 & it really is a good car.
The Rex is a 650cc BMW scooter engine that is mounted next to the electric motor on the rear LHS, under the truck floor.
For an I3 that is in Euro spec, the Rex can be switched on/off after the main battery is down past 75% SOC.
The Rex just charges the main battery & cannot provide direct motive power.
In US spec, to pass the CA CARB regs, the Rex comes on after the main battery is down to 6% SOC.
Needless to say, owners buy a smartphone App that hacks the I3 Rex operation to Euro spec.
The real beauty of the Rex is that there is zero range anxiety. You always find a charger or a gas station.

We use the I3 as an electric vehicle for daily use.
However, we make a monthly 500 mile each way trip south and have used the I3 several times.
You start with a full charge & full tank (2.3 galls) of fuel.
After the main battery is down past 75%, you turn on the Rex & run another 95 miles till the tank runs dry.
Depending on what available, you refill the gas tank & continue or use a fast charger to recharge.
The journey takes about 45 mins longer in the I3 than our ICE vehicle, mainly because of charge time.

The BMW I3 is obviously a transitional technolgy but it works well.
I’m starting to see rows of Tesla chargers appearing at large gas station stops along the interstates.
Once the oil companies realise that you can hold people at your “Energy Station” for up to 20 mins
while an EV fast charges & that these people will probably spend $ on refreshments while waiting,
I expect more & more EV charging stations to appear.

The beauty of the charging station is that it can go pretty much anywhere a car can go. I wonder when we will see parking lots purpose built for EVs. Even if an electric car had a 500 mile range, it could quick charge while the driver just takes a break even. People traveling with dogs often stop at rest stops and gas stations with grass. Imagine the future of a silent snack and refuel stop! Fast food chains even benefit from this. You don't even have to go to a gas station, you can just eat and charge. Hotels need to heavily invest in this technology.

A charging station could benefit literally any business. Sure, the startup costs are high, but in the long term, it will pay off. There are no volatile fuels involved, no storage tanks, nothing. Just an electrical outlet. The community College I went to before we moved had a solar covered parking area just for EVs.

 

[spirilis]

The beauty of the charging station is that it can go pretty much anywhere a car can go. I wonder when we will see parking lots purpose built for EVs. Even if an electric car had a 500 mile range, it could quick charge while the driver just takes a break even. People traveling with dogs often stop at rest stops and gas stations with grass. Imagine the future of a silent snack and refuel stop! Fast food chains even benefit from this. You don't even have to go to a gas station, you can just eat and charge. Hotels need to heavily invest in this technology.

A charging station could benefit literally any business. Sure, the startup costs are high, but in the long term, it will pay off. There are no volatile fuels involved, no storage tanks, nothing. Just an electrical outlet. The community College I went to before we moved had a solar covered parking area just for EVs.

Level 2 stations aren't too bad price-wise but IIRC L3 DC fast chargers are a different breed. Capital costs upfront won't pay themselves for many many years until EVs are more popular and the charging fees can bring in more revenue.

Until then I see charger adoption in public following the present pattern, where govt subsidies are required to make them happen. I don't think that's necessarily bad at all though given what's at stake and what EVs can do to quell our long term CO2 emissions.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Sure they sugar coat with the promise of EVs but the consumers arent really buying them anywhere near the demand for trucks. .

All the more reason to
electrify the trucks. The cheap gas prices are slowing that down.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Yes, old perceptions die hard. Our Volt is a lot of fun to drive, especially when compared to Toyotas we've owned or rented. The Cruze is much more fun to drive too. Ford's CMax and Fusions aren't bad either. Dodge PT Cruiser, meh.

Good to see your coming back to american brands. Im glad they(american Brands) are producing vehicles people want to buy and provide good value. It saddens me to see a sea of foreign brands in parking lots, as if we cant design and build the worlds best cars here at home and not just assemble foreign brands from froreign parts here in the states. We used to be a world leader in this field.

 

[PaulOinMA]

... if we cant design and build the worlds best cars here at home …

I'm driving a Ford after 32 years of VW/Audi products. Ford's C1 platform came out of Ford's Germany design studio and is the basis of a lot of their vehicles.

My first car was a Ford: 1974 Pinto! It was the blue that it seemed like 98% of the Pintos came in.

 

[bholler]

Good to see your coming back to american brands. Im glad they(american Brands) are producing vehicles people want to buy and provide good value. It saddens me to see a sea of foreign brands in parking lots, as if we cant design and build the worlds best cars here at home and not just assemble foreign brands from froreign parts here in the states. We used to be a world leader in this field.

Yes but soon if you want a sedan you will have no choice but to duy a foreign car. And what will happen to sales of American cars when fuel prices spike again? To me it is an incredibly short sighted decision.

 

[3fordasho]

I'm driving a Ford after 32 years of VW/Audi products. Ford's C1 platform came out of Ford's Germany design studio and is the basis of a lot of their vehicles.

My first car was a Ford: 1974 Pinto! It was the blue that it seemed like 98% of the Pintos came in.

Drove nothing but Fords for years. I have no issue with them mechanically but got sick of the body rusting away. Helped my daughter buy her 2001 ford focus, my winter car is a 2002 Audi A4. The Focus has long rusted away, the Audi still solid as a rock at 213K miles and driven every winter. I know the Focus is a low end Ford but the more expensive Fords rust just a quick.