mgambuzza said:
Off topic, but that red Thelin looks like a Jules Verne rocket, ready for take off. Very cool!
Best pellet price Ever, Even I was Amazed $8.90 / Bag
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Off topic, but that red Thelin looks like a Jules Verne rocket, ready for take off. Very cool!
HarryBack said:
No flaming... just a correction
Efficiency is in fact accounted for in the calculator, and you can even adjust the numbers if you don't believe the defaults. Heck, you can even make the pellet stove 50% more efficient than a woodstove and you still can't get the same heat into your house out of a $250 ton of pellets as you can out of a $150 cord of hardwood.
Of course, as you point out, and I agree with you 100%, wood is more work. So I don't take any issue with that at all. No free lunch!
The real concern I have is the danger that someone gets into a pellet stove with dreams of saving big bucks, when in fact, at $250/ton, they are paying just as much for their energy as someone buying oil for $2.40/gallon. After laying out a couple grand on the stove, it's hard for people to accept that the pellet market has changed and it's not the deal it was back when pellets were $150/ton. Then rationalization sets in and you see some very questionable claims being made. Unless your alternative choice is electricity or propane, the economics are quite dubious - especially when paying off a $2000 stove. That money could be better spent elsewhere on zoned heating loops, better insulation, windows, etc...
-Colin
BeGreen said:
Thanks for the comment - I thought when running on high it would drown out the television, but it really isn't as bad as I originally thought. It certainly does look at full bore that its ready to take off. I've gotten a lot of comments on this unit - people either love it or hate it. We found it to be an extremely reliable and effective heating unit.
Mike Wilson said:
The Gnome or "little one" was selling for about $2300, more with options, and depending where you order it from. I did quite a bit of shopping before I settled on this particular model. I found there was an $800 range between different dealers. This cannot be direct vented, there needs to be at least a 5 foot rise on any of the Thelin Pellet models. This prevented me from locating it in my first floor, but it didn't stop me from installing it in my basement/recreation room.
I will be heading to the ASH CAN soon with this topic but a couple of final words.NY Soapstone said:HarryBack said:
No flaming... just a correction
Efficiency is in fact accounted for in the calculator, and you can even adjust the numbers if you don't believe the defaults. Heck, you can even make the pellet stove 50% more efficient than a woodstove and you still can't get the same heat into your house out of a $250 ton of pellets as you can out of a $150 cord of hardwood.
Of course, as you point out, and I agree with you 100%, wood is more work. So I don't take any issue with that at all. No free lunch!
The real concern I have is the danger that someone gets into a pellet stove with dreams of saving big bucks, when in fact, at $250/ton, they are paying just as much for their energy as someone buying oil for $2.40/gallon. After laying out a couple grand on the stove, it's hard for people to accept that the pellet market has changed and it's not the deal it was back when pellets were $150/ton. Then rationalization sets in and you see some very questionable claims being made. Unless your alternative choice is electricity or propane, the economics are quite dubious - especially when paying off a $2000 stove. That money could be better spent elsewhere on zoned heating loops, better insulation, windows, etc...
-Colin
The scenario from my earlier post was made up..... my neighbor actually burns 6-7 cord a year and I'm at 4-5 ton.
The oil to pellet comparison is a crock........
My stove runs 24/7 about 5 months a year and my house is 78* steady........ Yep that's right steady 78*....... Oil or NG my temp was set at 68* and the temp range was more like 66*-76* up and down up and down.......... (and I'm still saving money......ALOT) Wood burning as evidence to almost all posts in this forum it's 80* while they are awake and adding splits, then when they wake up in the morning it's 68*You get the point. As far as the BTU comparison between wood and pellets wood yes I'll admit has a higher BTU per pound, BUT how quickly are those BTU's released?The wood burns hot and quick while the pellets would burn not as hot but would last alot longer. How many people who burn pellets have to open up thier windows because the house is to hot..... Where is the efficiency there?
I guess you could look at it this way Half the btu's per pound but twice the burn time...... So again yes it is a flaw My house is warmer than it was with NG and it is still about half the price.
So in ending (cause this should now be in the ash can) From what I've heard from the wood burning community here they have to wait to light up the stoves till it gets cold enough outside to get a good draft and not have the house too hot...... So you burn wood for 3 months and i'm at 5 months for pellets what are you using for the other 2 months? OIL? AND on top of that if you use 6-7 cords a season in 3 months and I use 4-5 ton over 5 months............ Recheck the #s.......
IT IS MISLEADING...........
Should I go on about how the cost of the liner and cap for a wood stove makes it near equivalent to the cost of a pellet stove with a out and up run???????????????
"Should I go on about how the cost of the liner and cap for a wood stove makes it near equivalent to the cost of a pellet stove with a out and up run??????????????? "
Actually I don't know why you should go on about anything. I must have missed something. The only people I see here justifying why they burn what they burn are pellet guys. I don't see the cord wood burners dishing a ration of crap to pellet stove owners. In fact in 18 months on the Forum I think I am the only one I have ever seen poke fun at pellet burners. And that one post was just because about fifty "something is squeaking" posts seemed to show up in one months time.
Everybody burn what ya wanna burn. Ain't no right or wrong. In fact I am eying the Lowe's closeout pellet stove because I am sixty freakin years old and never know which day is going to be the one when something whacks me and I can't cut wood anymore. I am thinking of buying the thing and just storing so it will be there.
And if I do, I will buy pellets at the same time of the year I cut wood. April and May. And if the sumbitch squeaks I will call Mike. Of course if memory serves most of the squeaking comes from Harmans.
Actually I don't know why you should go on about anything. I must have missed something. The only people I see here justifying why they burn what they burn are pellet guys. I don't see the cord wood burners dishing a ration of crap to pellet stove owners. In fact in 18 months on the Forum I think I am the only one I have ever seen poke fun at pellet burners. And that one post was just because about fifty "something is squeaking" posts seemed to show up in one months time.
Everybody burn what ya wanna burn. Ain't no right or wrong. In fact I am eying the Lowe's closeout pellet stove because I am sixty freakin years old and never know which day is going to be the one when something whacks me and I can't cut wood anymore. I am thinking of buying the thing and just storing so it will be there.
And if I do, I will buy pellets at the same time of the year I cut wood. April and May. And if the sumbitch squeaks I will call Mike. Of course if memory serves most of the squeaking comes from Harmans.
GVA said:I will be heading to the ASH CAN soon with this topic but a couple of final words.NY Soapstone said:
No flaming... just a correction
Efficiency is in fact accounted for in the calculator, and you can even adjust the numbers if you don't believe the defaults. Heck, you can even make the pellet stove 50% more efficient than a woodstove and you still can't get the same heat into your house out of a $250 ton of pellets as you can out of a $150 cord of hardwood.
Of course, as you point out, and I agree with you 100%, wood is more work. So I don't take any issue with that at all. No free lunch!
The real concern I have is the danger that someone gets into a pellet stove with dreams of saving big bucks, when in fact, at $250/ton, they are paying just as much for their energy as someone buying oil for $2.40/gallon. After laying out a couple grand on the stove, it's hard for people to accept that the pellet market has changed and it's not the deal it was back when pellets were $150/ton. Then rationalization sets in and you see some very questionable claims being made. Unless your alternative choice is electricity or propane, the economics are quite dubious - especially when paying off a $2000 stove. That money could be better spent elsewhere on zoned heating loops, better insulation, windows, etc...
-Colin
The scenario from my earlier post was made up..... my neighbor actually burns 6-7 cord a year and I'm at 4-5 ton.
The oil to pellet comparison is a crock........
My stove runs 24/7 about 5 months a year and my house is 78* steady........ Yep that's right steady 78*....... Oil or NG my temp was set at 68* and the temp range was more like 66*-76* up and down up and down.......... (and I'm still saving money......ALOT) Wood burning as evidence to almost all posts in this forum it's 80* while they are awake and adding splits, then when they wake up in the morning it's 68*You get the point. As far as the BTU comparison between wood and pellets wood yes I'll admit has a higher BTU per pound, BUT how quickly are those BTU's released?The wood burns hot and quick while the pellets would burn not as hot but would last alot longer. How many people who burn pellets have to open up thier windows because the house is to hot..... Where is the efficiency there?
I guess you could look at it this way Half the btu's per pound but twice the burn time...... So again yes it is a flaw My house is warmer than it was with NG and it is still about half the price.
So in ending (cause this should now be in the ash can) From what I've heard from the wood burning community here they have to wait to light up the stoves till it gets cold enough outside to get a good draft and not have the house too hot...... So you burn wood for 3 months and i'm at 5 months for pellets what are you using for the other 2 months? OIL? AND on top of that if you use 6-7 cords a season in 3 months and I use 4-5 ton over 5 months............ Recheck the #s.......
IT IS MISLEADING...........
Should I go on about how the cost of the liner and cap for a wood stove makes it near equivalent to the cost of a pellet stove with a out and up run???????????????
It never ceases to amaze me how pellet stove owners can get so defensive about the price of pellets. Pellets moved up with every other energy cost - it's free market economics at work, and shouldn't be a surprise.
Speaking frankly, you really had a poorly designed or maintained central heating system if it could not do better than 10 degrees of temperature control. If that is your point of reference, I don't blame you at all for coming to a biased conclusion. Kind of like if I compared EPA wood stoves to a pellet stove owner that skips the service contract, lets the thing run poorly and jammed up, installs it in a bad location, etc. Not really meaningful. And if your neighbor runs a woodstove the way you describe, no wonder he burns more cords than most anyone on this forum.
Time and time again, pellet owners who get upset over the cost ultimately resort to comparisons where some guy in another house of unknown layout and unknown insulation with a woodstove of unknown vintage supposedly burns way more wood than any of us EPA stove users seem to burn. Or compare against their old bills, which are clearly on seriously malfunctioning or poorly maintained equipment. Every such argument degenerates into rants like the ones above that are no longer based on scientific fact, but are based on anecdotal loaded comparisons.
Be happy with pellets for what they are - simple to use, and cheap alternative to electricity and high priced propane. Great if you want a simple heat source for a cabin where an oil system would be too expensive to justify. Don't try to claim they're a markedly cheaper and magical heating source that overcomes fundamental thermodynamics... that just kills credibility.
-Colin
GVA said:I will be heading to the ASH CAN soon with this topic but a couple of final words.NY Soapstone said:HarryBack said:
No flaming... just a correction
Efficiency is in fact accounted for in the calculator, and you can even adjust the numbers if you don't believe the defaults. Heck, you can even make the pellet stove 50% more efficient than a woodstove and you still can't get the same heat into your house out of a $250 ton of pellets as you can out of a $150 cord of hardwood.
Of course, as you point out, and I agree with you 100%, wood is more work. So I don't take any issue with that at all. No free lunch!
The real concern I have is the danger that someone gets into a pellet stove with dreams of saving big bucks, when in fact, at $250/ton, they are paying just as much for their energy as someone buying oil for $2.40/gallon. After laying out a couple grand on the stove, it's hard for people to accept that the pellet market has changed and it's not the deal it was back when pellets were $150/ton. Then rationalization sets in and you see some very questionable claims being made. Unless your alternative choice is electricity or propane, the economics are quite dubious - especially when paying off a $2000 stove. That money could be better spent elsewhere on zoned heating loops, better insulation, windows, etc...
-Colin
The scenario from my earlier post was made up..... my neighbor actually burns 6-7 cord a year and I'm at 4-5 ton.
The oil to pellet comparison is a crock........
My stove runs 24/7 about 5 months a year and my house is 78* steady........ Yep that's right steady 78*....... Oil or NG my temp was set at 68* and the temp range was more like 66*-76* up and down up and down.......... (and I'm still saving money......ALOT) Wood burning as evidence to almost all posts in this forum it's 80* while they are awake and adding splits, then when they wake up in the morning it's 68*You get the point. As far as the BTU comparison between wood and pellets wood yes I'll admit has a higher BTU per pound, BUT how quickly are those BTU's released?The wood burns hot and quick while the pellets would burn not as hot but would last alot longer. How many people who burn pellets have to open up thier windows because the house is to hot..... Where is the efficiency there?
I guess you could look at it this way Half the btu's per pound but twice the burn time...... So again yes it is a flaw My house is warmer than it was with NG and it is still about half the price.
So in ending (cause this should now be in the ash can) From what I've heard from the wood burning community here they have to wait to light up the stoves till it gets cold enough outside to get a good draft and not have the house too hot...... So you burn wood for 3 months and i'm at 5 months for pellets what are you using for the other 2 months? OIL? AND on top of that if you use 6-7 cords a season in 3 months and I use 4-5 ton over 5 months............ Recheck the #s.......
IT IS MISLEADING...........
Should I go on about how the cost of the liner and cap for a wood stove makes it near equivalent to the cost of a pellet stove with a out and up run???????????????
6-7 cords in 3 months, WOW ! 80° through out the day and 68° by morning!?!
Sounds more like a fireplace in an old barn.
I run 100% heat from my wood stove to heat our house and run it for 5 months (3.75 cords last year) I know you helped Elk with T & B wood stove so i know you dont live in Alaska , Let you neighbor know about modern stoves and hint at him about insulation , maybe some new windows or storm windows.
Does you neighbor have a super large house?
Can't really address the calculator, the better cost or how much work is involved. Fact is Last year I paid way too much for oil, after giving the NG company the bums rush. So my comparison is two years ago cost with this years. So far I have burned 1 3/4 tons of pellets, average cost is $165.00 per ton. Last bills for the NG were $$380.00. I am now 10-12 degrees warmer, and more of the heat stays where I want it. So, I am not saving more than $110-20, but I now control the cost, I will pay for all my install and hardware costs by the end of this season, and the real plus is warmer inside.
BB
you made fun of the noises but that doesn't bother me it's the others that just blatently state wow I'd never burn pellets cause it's a rip off... (and I'm not a dealer)
Colin
First I'm not defensive about the price of pellets it's about the attitude that in general is given toward people that use pellets. It's crap...
I'm not calling them a magical heat source, but it is you that is basicly saying that they are inefficient and over priced.... are they overpriced right now? Yes I think they are but the price is coming down. But you to need an education in how pellet stoves work.
Mike
I'm trying
Spike
Just talking about what many people (woodburners) have stated here on the forum about their temperatures, etc...
We all know that the PE can run on a quarter of what everyone elses stove will run on..
Do they make a pellet stove? ;-P
again like NYS pointed out everyones thermo profile is different.
But on this forum I have read several people stating that they burn more than 5 cords a year....... maybe it's just the northeast..... :cheese:
Uncle Rich
Exactly, even if the cost is not immediatly noticed the temperature is...........
The general concensus here seems to be if you burn pellets we don't want you here
! Or at least we don't take you seriously.....
Just seems to be what I've noticed over the last several months.......
Maybe Craig should change it to Woodburners.com....
Oh yeah it's Hearth.com
Get over it!
Lets see 2 years ago what would this thread have looked like.................
you made fun of the noises but that doesn't bother me it's the others that just blatently state wow I'd never burn pellets cause it's a rip off... (and I'm not a dealer)
Colin
First I'm not defensive about the price of pellets it's about the attitude that in general is given toward people that use pellets. It's crap...
I'm not calling them a magical heat source, but it is you that is basicly saying that they are inefficient and over priced.... are they overpriced right now? Yes I think they are but the price is coming down. But you to need an education in how pellet stoves work.
Mike
I'm trying
Spike
Just talking about what many people (woodburners) have stated here on the forum about their temperatures, etc...
We all know that the PE can run on a quarter of what everyone elses stove will run on..
Do they make a pellet stove? ;-P again like NYS pointed out everyones thermo profile is different.
But on this forum I have read several people stating that they burn more than 5 cords a year....... maybe it's just the northeast..... :cheese:
Uncle Rich
Exactly, even if the cost is not immediatly noticed the temperature is...........
The general concensus here seems to be if you burn pellets we don't want you here
! Or at least we don't take you seriously.....Just seems to be what I've noticed over the last several months.......
Maybe Craig should change it to Woodburners.com....
Oh yeah it's Hearth.com
Get over it!
Lets see 2 years ago what would this thread have looked like.................
I was done with this but...
I don't see anybody here putting down pellet burners. I guess I am blind. Sure there are a lot more cord wood burners here than, ok just to make you happy "Pellet Heads". With cord wood burners you have everything in the world to talk about on a forum like this. Chainsaws, different stoves, types of wood, where to get it, how hot to run the stove, how not to drop a tree on your house or your head and on and on and on. With a pellet stove you have two things. Hardwood or softwood and price and availability of pellets. It's a choice thing.
What I do see is a pellet burner dropping in every once and a while to tell us cord wood burners we are nuts. Or more often pellet stove owners dropping in for advice and in every instance treated with respect and give solid advice.
And to set the record staight, it is sixty degrees outside and since I don't want it to be sixty inside one stove is burning and it has been 73 inside for twelve hours straight. Control boards ain't everything.
I don't see anybody here putting down pellet burners. I guess I am blind. Sure there are a lot more cord wood burners here than, ok just to make you happy "Pellet Heads". With cord wood burners you have everything in the world to talk about on a forum like this. Chainsaws, different stoves, types of wood, where to get it, how hot to run the stove, how not to drop a tree on your house or your head and on and on and on. With a pellet stove you have two things. Hardwood or softwood and price and availability of pellets. It's a choice thing.
What I do see is a pellet burner dropping in every once and a while to tell us cord wood burners we are nuts. Or more often pellet stove owners dropping in for advice and in every instance treated with respect and give solid advice.
And to set the record staight, it is sixty degrees outside and since I don't want it to be sixty inside one stove is burning and it has been 73 inside for twelve hours straight. Control boards ain't everything.
Actually, my original post was in response to Mike Wilson's post, which is the 5th in the thread here. He extrapolates someone selling $8.90/bag pellets to what the whole undustry is charging:
Now, in my reading of the above quote, didnt he say one MORE example of the pellet industry screwing the community? Or am I wrong in what Ive read? Its possible I misconstrued Mike's quote, but I dont see how. Sure seems anti-pellet to me, but I guess maybe others here would disagree.
I do see a bias here though, generally pro-wood and anti-everything else, from "squeeky Harmans" to price-gouging pellet retailers to the evil, worthless dealers who, even through this adverse season, seem to still maddeningly stay in business, even though they are the least ethical people around. It might just be that here is a node where the woodburners tend to congregate, and its obvious most love what they do...ie: cut and heat with wood, so anyone doing anything different hasnt seen the light, so to speak. Thats ok, Im good with that, but am very wary when people used skewed data to try to prove a point, such as comparing a high oil price with a low gas price...that seems to happen here, ad nauseum.
Another issue here involves folks livelyhoods. You read about inspectors being "dissed" summarily, same with the pellet suppliers, hearth dealers, etc. I can understand those same people, who are trying to make a living, trying to defend their professions, sometimes to no avail. Unfortunately, like many forums, those people doing the negative posting usually neglect to say what upstanding, non-profit profession they are in, maybe its irrelevant, but more than likely so they dont have to defend their own.
Have a good evening!
Now, in my reading of the above quote, didnt he say one MORE example of the pellet industry screwing the community? Or am I wrong in what Ive read? Its possible I misconstrued Mike's quote, but I dont see how. Sure seems anti-pellet to me, but I guess maybe others here would disagree.
I do see a bias here though, generally pro-wood and anti-everything else, from "squeeky Harmans" to price-gouging pellet retailers to the evil, worthless dealers who, even through this adverse season, seem to still maddeningly stay in business, even though they are the least ethical people around. It might just be that here is a node where the woodburners tend to congregate, and its obvious most love what they do...ie: cut and heat with wood, so anyone doing anything different hasnt seen the light, so to speak. Thats ok, Im good with that, but am very wary when people used skewed data to try to prove a point, such as comparing a high oil price with a low gas price...that seems to happen here, ad nauseum.
Another issue here involves folks livelyhoods. You read about inspectors being "dissed" summarily, same with the pellet suppliers, hearth dealers, etc. I can understand those same people, who are trying to make a living, trying to defend their professions, sometimes to no avail. Unfortunately, like many forums, those people doing the negative posting usually neglect to say what upstanding, non-profit profession they are in, maybe its irrelevant, but more than likely so they dont have to defend their own.
Have a good evening!
HarryBack said:
Hell, I retired from the oil business. Think I was loved by all? I used to tell people at parties that I was a car salesman. Then I made the mistake of going to work for county government for three years after that. They gave me the privilege of standing up in front of the citizens and getting my ass kicked.
When my sister in law comes to visit we have a ritual, she works for Aetna, where we spend exactly one bottle of wine with me cussing the insurance industry and her cussing oil companies.
heh, BB! I concur! My family still sells oil! As for insurance, Ive got a customer who has worked in insurance for his whole life, and some fo the stories he has to tell ("just you, me, an th' fencepost" stories) are absolutely hair-raising! Its a wonder with all the witch-hunting going on in the fuel biz that the gummint hasnt lookat at the insurance co profits!
You're too nice BB They are out there....BrotherBart said:
Most people (from what I've read)n will keep the oil burner running at those temps..........
Anyway people use this forum as an education for what they should buy...... And if they already own they want to know if they are using it correctly.. is what they are seeing normal etc.... wood, pellet, coal, gas......... OOOOOPS did I say gas....
Yeah well even though I burn pellets I got a chainsaw A 20" poulin Pro.... sorry I'm not a pro....... And took down a 60 foot ash tree last fall and gave the wood to my neighbor and brother in law...... Probably at least 3 cord..........Big deal I've also seen people asking for chili recipes here.....................So what the F does that have to do with burning.........Besides the next morning on the toilet..????????????????????????
The only reason that I visit this forum is that maybe I can help someone whether it be venting problems or............Pellet stove noises..... I guess I like to help people.. not put them down...... like some people like to do....... Now maybe if I was GVA Soapstone I would have more credibility here................. Ahh I don't care... I'll be in the Ash Can.....Good night................................
HarryBack said:
Yes Harry, that is exactly what I said. What I posted was exactly what my opinion is... and you can ignore it if you wish, just as I do fifty times a day. I get to say what I think about the pellet industry and I have absolutely no connection to it whatsoever... none. I think that it is currently an overpriced fuel. Keep in mind that I think of an industry as a vertical construct, any industry, they are all the same. The distributors and dealers are a part of that industry, even if all they do it sell. people have seen aome pretty high pellet price quotes on this web site... with this latest one from Agway setting a new record. Add that to the routine complaints of pellet shortages and rationing, and you have an industry that is not providing for its customer base. They have sold more pellet consuming units then they have anywhere near the capacity to provide reasonably priced pellets for. Therefore, the promise that is given to the customers, that a pellet stove is an economical source of heat, is a fallacy... unless, as I also said above somewhere, you either get cheaper pellets, or happen to heat your home with some other exorbitantly priced fuel, such as propane or electrons. So yes, $8.90/bag pellets are an example of a deficiency in the industry, and it is, in my opinion, an example of "the pellet industry screwing itself by screwing the community."
Now, as to your comment that people here are "generally pro-wood and anti-everything else," I don't think people here are anti anything. This board has one of the best and most helpful user bases I've seen. While the majority of the users here burn cordwood, I read nothing but good ideas and help from these people, even when they try to help a poor pellet-head. There is no animosity, no matter how much you wish to imply there is. What I do see, however, are people interpreting objective fact as an insult against their chosen heat source. Here's a fact: burning cordwood is cheaper than burning pellets. Period. That's a fact, not an insult, slight, libel, or any other malicious comment against the pellet-heads. Here's another fact: Its a whole lot easier to dump a 40 pound bag of pellets into a hopper and flick a switch than it is to lug splits up from the basement four times a day and stuff them in a cast iron box in your living room. No insult to the wood burners, just a fact.
And no offense man, but if a line like what you quoted is responsible for setting off all the pellet-heads around here, then they might want to try decaf instead. I know I do. And let's all try to remember what our dear bloody and bruised little friend Rodney said... "Why can't we all just get along?"
-- Mike
Mike, that's a somewhat provincial reply. Cordwood vs pellet prices vary dramatically around the country. Same for the quality of cordwood. In our neck of the woods pellets are reasonably priced and softwood cordwood is going for $200/cord. Pellets at $139-180/ton are a good deal here, especially in an urban environment where the air quality when there's lots of wood burning degrades rapidly.
BeGreen said:
That doesn't matter Be Green, Pellets even though cheaper, just don't heat as well..............
Good night all..................
Mike, you seem to think there is some collusion in the pellet "industry" to screw people. "Industry" does not always work as it seems. Sure, if you dig deep enough you can probably find some unscrupulous collusion between some participating members of any industry. But it's really a market. People buy stuff, people sell stuff - at market. Some people will pay more than others in the same market. Sometimes a seller will practically give away their goods and some of the buyers will get a windfall. I don't think any of this happens because some dudes are hold up in some basement office trying to figure out how they can control the price of pellets in the market place.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinions and you may share them. Harryback is also entitled to his and he appropriately defended his "industry" from your rather baseless acusation.
Yes, you are entitled to your opinions and you may share them. Harryback is also entitled to his and he appropriately defended his "industry" from your rather baseless acusation.
seaken said:
1- Speaking of making baseless accusations, I never said the word collusion. Kindly avoid telling people what I said, I can do that job well enough without your help. I do not think there is collusion, just a number of greedy people without foresight.
2- I don't have a list of who is in what industry here, and was unaware that Harry was in the pellet industry, not that it matters, or that I care.
Love to chat, but have to fly to Miami this afternoon, so I won't be online for a while.
-- Mike
Mike Wilson said:
Mike, not trying to be an ass here. We all can read what you said. I am not putting words in your fingers. I did not say you said collusion. I said it seemed you thought there was collusion. I was commenting on your words not quoting them.
Sean
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