TooColdHere
Member
Hey Brad. Another thing that works is a setting on the new system thermostat that circulates air for 20 mins every hour. That helps get the warm air into the rooms too.
Bedroom Heating(With Drawing)
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TooCold, I had not thought about that. That would ROYALLY SUCK to show up to Lowes and the machines be gone, When my Wife and I went by there a few weeks ago to check out insulation it appeared they had two machines but one if I remember correctly had a broke sign on it so that would put them down to 1, given the time of year I would bet there might be more chance of them NOT having it available than having it available.
I also have been DREADING the soffit vent spacer things so I might change my mind here and check out the bat stuff. The spray in like you said is ATLEAST a 2 person job, the bat I can do by myself.
Either which way I end up going, Bat or loose fill, either one will be better than whats up there now. Apparently there used to be cats that would get into the attic, on that end of the house there are places where the current bat insulation is pretty much missing in small spots, then there are places where I guess the cats would nest down into the insulation to stay warm and they smashed it so thin I doubt its more than an inch thick in all those little areas they laid in. I bet there's 100 little smashed down circle areas up there where the cats would nest down. Other thought that came to mind is what else they might have done up there, we all know when a cat digs a hole it means either #1 or #2. I don't want to think about it.
mass_burner
Minister of Fire
OP , I'm not sure what insulation in the attic has anything to do with it, when you can't get any heat into the bedrooms in the first place. Yes, insulation is important, but it won't help the warm air movement. BTW, I have bats and blown in cellulose 3+ inches above the 9" rafters in the whole attic and even had all air sealing done around the perimeter and around chimney.
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
You want the slow air movement so fans on low. Plus for Matt and Mass both if your blower on your stove is on high it seems to really heat up the room your in. But I use a free standing stove so guess what I do. I dont use a fan at all. The radiant heat and natural air flows are what works for me. I am not sure if your insert will be the same.
I was told 30 years ago by a stove shop owner who sold Kent Tile Side stoves with the soap stone sides. He talked about the fact the extra mass of the stove and the soapstone stores heat really well , that this would flatten out the heating curve to supply a more comfortable over an extended time as the store heat would be released during that time the coals are dieing down. That it was that 24/7 and a more flattened heating curve that helps to heat the other ends of your house. And if you have extended times that you let your stove sit there idle thats causing your more of an issue than you think.
Alot of people with high ceilings use ceiling fans and that helps push the heat in that room from the ceiling to the ground but it tends to cause a forced type of air flow up and down from ceiling to floor. This interrupts the natural balancing out of the air flows from the fact there is heat differences in the rooms and heat will migrate to other rooms and cool air will travel back to the warm areas. Not sure what can be done but alot of people on hear speak about the only way to help these type issues as I mentioned in my earlier post that take a small fan that will sit on the floor where the cool air settles and push it back to the warm room setting the fan on low so as not to create drafts in the house. I would also set that fireplace insert stove to a really extra low setting. Dont cook your self out of the room with a high setting and a bunch of air flow in that room the stove is in. Hopefully alot of your extra heat will be stored in your fireplace brick and radiated back out later on. Then doing this 24/7 and not letting extended periods of no heat happen then your house should balance out naturally.
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
Insulation will help but you also have to have good windows and sealed caulked house to limit other sources of cold.
You will never have the outer ends of your house the same temps as the center of the house but it should get better with some tweaks.
Your mileage may vary using the furnace fan to circulate air. Some homes(like mine) has too much of a heat loss in the duct work to make it a feasible option. It does work, i just loose heat overall using this method. If all of your duct work is insulated, and its in the interior of the home this method works much better. If your duct work goes through a crawl space etc(like mine) then you may see a large heat loss via the duct work.
Rambler, I tried the heat pump circulating fan last winter and had a big loss just like you. all my duct work is in a crawlspace like yours with the actual circulating fan located outside the crawlspace in a package unit heat pump.
I was out and about just a bit ago "attempting" to do some Christmas shopping, I think I just burned more fuel than anything else. But I had to go by Lowes to grab a new chain for my chainsaw and grabbed a roll of the R30 Bat insulation. About to go up and put the one roll down and see how it goes. Just got one roll for now as a trial run because I need to take the Wife with me to get all the rest so we can save 10% with her Military discount. Hey, every bit HELPS.
Well the first roll is in place. Pain in the butt because you have to cut a notch in the insulation so it can slide up tight to the joist or whatever and there's little to no room to move, plus plenty of nails waiting to stick into your head if you move wrong. But man do I like that R30. It fluffs up thick. Looks like I will need another 20-21 rolls to finish that end of the house. Hopefully I can fit them all in the bed of my Toyota Tacoma so I don't have to pull the trailer.
I missed this reply. I can get heat to the doors of the bedrooms basically and then its just DISAPPEARS. Maybe the title of my post is a bit construed. I will have heat at the ceiling right around the entrance to all three bedrooms but then you step into a bedroom and its gone and feels like an ice box. Hoping its getting zapped out into the attic.
TooColdHere
Member
I used paddle from a SUP board and a hockey stick to push the rolls into the short areas. Save your head!
Yeah I was looking for something to push it with but couldn't find anything laying around the garage to suit me so I just went at it. Going tonight to get the rest of the insulation so it looks like tomorrow will be the day I get it all done. I am excited, and anxious, as well as little nervous I guess. Nervous for the fact if for some reason it doesn't help I don't know what else to do. I am going to be positive! Darn rooms will be so hot after I insulate attic above rooms that I will have to shut the doors go keep the heat.....OUT!
Also noticed air leaks around both bathroom vents, I could see the insulation up there blowing from the draft. Also seen a few other places that need to be addressed so I got some expanding foam in a can to hopefully deal with those places.
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
One issue I addressed last year was my floor joist down by my garage doors in the basement were exposed .
The wife complained the floor was cold.
I went and bought that rolls of bubble foil and sealed off the floor joist stapling the stuff then using the foil tape I seal all the seams to make a dead air space with the metal foil bubble stuff too provide some insulation and some reflective surface for radiated heat.
The floor isnt warm now but noticeable not as cold.
How good is your Windows ? Or did I miss that in a previous post?
The wife complained the floor was cold.
I went and bought that rolls of bubble foil and sealed off the floor joist stapling the stuff then using the foil tape I seal all the seams to make a dead air space with the metal foil bubble stuff too provide some insulation and some reflective surface for radiated heat.
The floor isnt warm now but noticeable not as cold.
How good is your Windows ? Or did I miss that in a previous post?
I mentioned windows earlier but don't mind saying again. House was built I believe in 82 and the windows are original. I have re-caulked them recently and we have thermal curtains over all bedroom windows to try and help. They are double pane windows at least.
Couldn't get enough of being in the attic so I went back up with my single can of expanding sealant foam to start checking any ceiling fixtures such as lights, bathroom fans, etc. WOW! Need more for sure, that can is GONE! I got part of the bedroom end of the house done. Every ceiling fixture, plumbing vent pipe, bathroom fan, EVERYTHING that went through the ceiling had a gap and the insulation was dirty so I know its been leaking. I then found the light fixture for the master bedroom closet, MY GOSH! I could see into our closet from the attic through the fixture. INSANE! I think by sealing all these fixtures and the new insulation I would have no choice but to see a difference in temp inside the bedrooms.
Also, the bathrooms butt up against one another. In that space I can see all the way down to the floor and see the backside of both bathtubs. I need some foam board to cut into place and seal this area before I put the R30 down. Making me a list for the trip to lowes, I don't want to forget nothing.
Charles1981
Minister of Fire
During the Winter I replace the door on our bedroom with this 20 dollar screen door from home depot and put a fan at the bottom blowing out our room. If the normal door is on our bedroom is like 64 degrees even though the stove is right next door. With the screen door and fan the room stays about 75.
It is probably a bit much to ask some to replace their entire door each year with a screen door, but it works well for us.
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It is probably a bit much to ask some to replace their entire door each year with a screen door, but it works well for us.
You have a difficult floorplan for heat to flow, but insulation will make a big difference. Do not skip on the attic insulation, and then do something about the bedroom windows - insulated shades, cellular shades, insulated curtains, or a combination. The difference there can be very dramatic. It is easy to look at r factor numbers and think it makes little difference to add r-2 or r-3 to windows, but it easy to overlook the fact that this reduces the heat losses by 1/2! If you have large glass doors to the outside it is an even bigger deal.
TooColdHere
Member
You can also do air/leak sealing from downstairs, too. Witness from above,caulk from below.
You are learning the holistic approach. A 23 SEER system does NOTHING if it services a sieve.
Well guys, Got the insulation done today. Overall took about 5 hours to put down 21 bags of R30. I ran it perpendicular to the ceiling 2x4s overtop of the old insulation. Probably slow time wise but I took my time, wanted it fitted around the floor joists as neatly as possible. I took some pictures with my phone, once I download them to the computer if they turned out ok I will post some up. In the 50s outside right now but suppose to be 32 tonight so I guess we will see. Should be enough coals in the stove to restart a fire later on this evening.
Hopefully between caulking all the ceiling fixtures(all were leaking air) and other various places, wire holes etc, and the insulation we will see some improvement. I am hoping for a big change for the better but trying not to get my hopes up.
There were a lot of places where the old insulation was smashed down to where it wasn't hardly 1/2 and inch thick. I re-fluffed as much of that as I could before rolling the new stuff down. I could move it and feel the ceiling sheetrock and it was warm to the touch so I had to be loosing heat.
Hopefully between caulking all the ceiling fixtures(all were leaking air) and other various places, wire holes etc, and the insulation we will see some improvement. I am hoping for a big change for the better but trying not to get my hopes up.
There were a lot of places where the old insulation was smashed down to where it wasn't hardly 1/2 and inch thick. I re-fluffed as much of that as I could before rolling the new stuff down. I could move it and feel the ceiling sheetrock and it was warm to the touch so I had to be loosing heat.
TooColdHere
Member
I guarantee you will feel a difference as early as tonight. See what the temp is in the morning vs the usual. Great job!!
Thank you very much!
Just downloaded the pictures, THEY SUCK. Phone normally takes good pictures but it didn't do well with the low light conditions up there even with the flash. It actually already seems to feel better. When walking from living room into the hallway to the bedrooms, usually right in the area where the bedrooms branch off is where I really noticed a temp change and it would feel drastic, doesn't feel as bad now, seems to be more equalized I guess would be the word for it.I do have the fans back on the top of the doorways, 2 blowing down the hallway towards bedroom and then one on each bedroom door except for the master bedroom. Having fans on the floor blowing towards the stove just doesn't seem to work for me, maybe the 20" fan I was using blowing down the hallway away from the bedrooms was just to much, even on LOW it blows ALOT of air.
TooColdHere
Member
If you didn't use fans before, turn them off for now. Keep all else equal so you can feel the insulation benefit alone. Start adjusting/playing after that. With too many variables, you'll never know what worked best!Thank you very much!
I do have the fans back on the top of the doorways, 2 blowing down the hallway towards bedroom and then one on each bedroom door except for the master bedroom. Having fans on the floor blowing towards the stove just doesn't seem to work for me, maybe the 20" fan I was using blowing down the hallway away from the bedrooms was just to much, even on LOW it blows ALOT of air.
I was very surprised at what insulation alone did.
If you didn't use fans before, turn them off for now. Keep all else equal so you can feel the insulation benefit alone. Start adjusting/playing after that. With too many variables, you'll never know what worked best!
Thanks true, would be nice to see what the insulation would do. It would be super nice to not have to run any fans except for the insert blower, reduces noise in the house. Right now I just have insert blower on and the ceiling fan on LOW sucking air up.
TooColdHere
Member
Ceiling fan reversed is all we use, on low also. Bedroom doors are always closed and wife and kids seem to like it a bit cooler overnight. I'll bet you see a world of difference with just today's project.
ToCold, I believe you are right Sir. I can tell a difference already for sure. I am so excited. It is 43 currently outside. It is suppose to be 29 tonight so a bit ago(44 outside then)I raked the coals around and there were VERY FEW coals left. Even though the stove was not putting off much heat at all the living room was 82 inside. 72 and 73 in the bedrooms. I guess the house is holding heat a lot better now for sure. Don't want it any warmer in here right now but threw a few seasoned splits of poplar on the coals and got them going just to keep it alive so I can load it before bed when it will be in the 30s. I can walk from living room to bedrooms and don't notice NEAR the drop in temp. I mean its like a night and day difference.
Before adding insulation the stove room would NEVER be 82 with an outside temp of 44 with the stove not putting off more heat than it was. Atleast if the bedrooms get to warm for sleeping we can shut and or crack the door shut. So far I am having NO regrets from my 5 hours in the attic today.
I had the Wife walk through the house and she got to the bedrooms and looked back at me and was like "wow, you can't hardly tell a difference"
This should also I would think make wood consumption less, won't have to reload as often on those cold January and Febuary nights to keep the house warm. This makes me want to re-do the insulation on the other end of the house now.
TooColdHere
Member
Slow down, Buckaroo...slow down.... You can do the other side after you decide you need it! Hahaha Enjoy the fruits of today's labor for a long time to come. I'm glad it worked out, like I said, it did for me.
We had a warm day here in MD but I think due for another cooler spell later in the week. It gives me a few more days to get wood up to the house! Enjoy!
I think you are right, I think the other end can stay "Under Insulated" for the time being. It is hot in here, I however am not complaining. 79 here at my computer and this hot cup of coffee is not helping. I am digging it though, bedrooms were 72.5 to 73 last time I checked. For sleeping 70-71 is fine for me, I won't even complain with 68. Those mornings though when you get up and its 61-62 in the bedrooms is no fun though so hopefully that problem is now solved.
Again I want to think you all for your help and utmost kindness in helping me with this. ToCold, thanks for the link to that insulation, that's exactly what I went with and happy now I did the rolls versus the blow in. Didn't have to mess with those soffit vent spacers. The rolls allow you to work it as close as possible while still leaving a gap for airflow from the soffits. Plus I like not having to deal with placing rulers around to get thickness correct. You roll this stuff out and it expands, get it where you want it and bam. I found that it was extremely easy to work with and would see up against the roll before it very nicely.
I will keep you updated as we get a few days under us.
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