Attack 45 profi chimney problems

[BoilerMan]

Splits are around 6-8" across the split face. When you are taking the moisture reading, are you splitting the wood, and measureing the freshly split surface with the prongs, this is the true MC reading of the wood, it should be less then 20% in the middle. Take a look at the install pics thread that I posted a link for a few posts up, you'll see how many different boilers are plumbed with iron+pex, or copper+pex, etc. I think your safe running it to at least 180F, I think all heating pex (oxygen barrior) is rated for 200F @ 80psi and 180F @ 100psi, but I could be wrong.

TS

 

[HD08Rocker]

I was just measuring from the ends. I will have to go split the wood and try again. Thanks In your opinion what will be more beneficial. Storage or a dump zone? How much storage does one need to be beneficial?

 

[BoilerMan]

Storage or a dump zone? How much storage does one need to be beneficial?

You always need a dump zone in a solid fuel aplication, coal, pellets, and wood all can "run away" meaning they can't just be turned off like oil or gas systems and will still produce heat so there needs to be a plan to get rid of that heat safely.

Dump zone: must

Storage: nice to have, most will say 1,000 gallon propane tank is great, it depends on your heating system and how low of a temp it will work on, the higher the temp (like baseboard) the larger the storage needs to be for the same amount of useable btu's to be stored. Others will chime in here.

A gassifier has a steep learning curve, especially steep for someone who is not familiar with wood and water combination........... That said, once you get it all working well (and YOU WILL) you will see the light, and will never look back. These things can really put out some heat with little wood input (compaired to old non-gassifying wood boilers)! Hang in there, it was not that long ago that these guys were telling me the same thing.

TS

 

[HD08Rocker]

You always need a dump zone in a solid fuel aplication, coal, pellets, and wood all can "run away" meaning they can't just be turned off like oil or gas systems and will still produce heat so there needs to be a plan to get rid of that heat safely.

Dump zone: must

Storage: nice to have, most will say 1,000 gallon propane tank is great, it depends on your heating system and how low of a temp it will work on, the higher the temp (like baseboard) the larger the storage needs to be for the same amount of useable btu's to be stored. Others will chime in here.

A gassifier has a steep learning curve, especially steep for someone who is not familiar with wood and water combination........... That said, once you get it all working well (and YOU WILL) you will see the light, and will never look back. These things can really put out some heat with little wood input (compaired to old non-gassifying wood boilers)! Hang in there, it was not that long ago that these guys were telling me the same thing.

TS

Thanks for the advice. You must think I am a moron for jumping into this with no knowledge. But I am tired of putting all my money into fuel oil for the winter. So that is why I decided to go with a new furnace. The gasification system can be claimed on my taxes and energy efficient. I certainly never thought it would be this tough. That said I am thinking that I am going to try again tomorrow after work. I was re reading your post about how u start your fire. When your first starting the fire do you run your fan? You were saying that you run your stack temps up to 350-400 degrees. I was thinking that somewhere in the manual it said that the fan shuts down at 300. Does yours run? I will start a fire and get my flue temps hot, I am going to set my boiler temp at 180 and turn my house thermostat up to distribute the heat. When you fill up the furnace at night do you have fire left in the morning? Should I need to get up in the night to feed the fire?

 

[maple1]

My input about metal piping was just based on your comment about your pex only being good for 180. It might well be good for higher than that - there should be some specs printed on the pipe itself in very small print relating max psi to a certain temp, similar to what Taylor mentioned.

Agreed that a dump zone is a necessity - but one other option that the Europeans seem to use quite a bit is an internal cooling coil. My boiler has stubs for one but I don't have them hooked up. You would hook fresh water feed up to one side, and run the other side to a drain, but with a thermostatic valve in the piping that would open if the boiler temps got too high. That would let fresh cold water (from your well) flow through the coil to a drain to cool the boiler. Doesn't seem like the best setup to me - it would depend on a constant supply being available (it wouldn't be if you have a well pump & the power goes out), and the water that goes through it (and the heat in it) would be wasted down the drain. Your boiler might have this coil built in, since it came from 'over there', but it can be ignored if you pipe in a dump zone.

You are absolutely on the mark in wanting to get off the oil - I did that this past summer. Feels good. There are quite a few NY'rs on here, maybe with luck someone could swing by & take a look-see at your system. I'd also start searching for some used propane or air compressor tanks - they come in various shapes & sizes, with luck you'd find some that you could adapt to your space. Storage is great - for allowing your boiler to run longer where it's supposed to, for one thing, but not having to rush to the boiler to start a fire since you have some heat stored is the big plus for me. Storage is also a great heat sink & will soak up a lot of heat - which makes proper dumping less critical, although it still needs to be there.

 

[danjayh]

You always need a dump zone in a solid fuel aplication, coal, pellets, and wood all can "run away" meaning they can't just be turned off like oil or gas systems and will still produce heat so there needs to be a plan to get rid of that heat safely.

Dump zone: must

Storage: nice to have, most will say 1,000 gallon propane tank is great, it depends on your heating system and how low of a temp it will work on, the higher the temp (like baseboard) the larger the storage needs to be for the same amount of useable btu's to be stored. Others will chime in here.

A gassifier has a steep learning curve, especially steep for someone who is not familiar with wood and water combination........... That said, once you get it all working well (and YOU WILL) you will see the light, and will never look back. These things can really put out some heat with little wood input (compaired to old non-gassifying wood boilers)! Hang in there, it was not that long ago that these guys were telling me the same thing.

TS

I would say that's *almost* true - in a pellet burner that augers the pellets into the burn chamber on demand, the fuel supply can be limited by the controller, which will prevent it from running away (examples include CB's Maxims, Frolling P4, ÖkoFEN, etc). In my Maxim, at any given time there is never enough fuel in the burn pot to raise the water temperature more than 1-2 degrees, and I do not believe a dump zone is necessary. In the case of burning any of these things in a traditional boiler, then yes, I agree with you.

 

[danjayh]

Thanks for the advice. You must think I am a moron for jumping into this with no knowledge. But I am tired of putting all my money into fuel oil for the winter. So that is why I decided to go with a new furnace. The gasification system can be claimed on my taxes and energy efficient. I certainly never thought it would be this tough. That said I am thinking that I am going to try again tomorrow after work. I was re reading your post about how u start your fire. When your first starting the fire do you run your fan? You were saying that you run your stack temps up to 350-400 degrees. I was thinking that somewhere in the manual it said that the fan shuts down at 300. Does yours run? I will start a fire and get my flue temps hot, I am going to set my boiler temp at 180 and turn my house thermostat up to distribute the heat. When you fill up the furnace at night do you have fire left in the morning? Should I need to get up in the night to feed the fire?

I think that's how we all got into it - sick of buying propane in my case. As far as jumping in with no knowledge, I'd say that after a couple more weeks on these forums you'll know more about your boiler than you ever thought possible .

 

[maple1]

One more point: along with the right sized piping, you also need the right sized circ to move enough water away from the boiler. If your pipe is a bit undersized, your pump would have to pump more. You can get a handle on how good that's happening by measuring your delta T - or the difference in temperature between supply & return water. Usually 20° difference is a decent number. That's assuming you have a heat load that will draw out the heat - turning the thermostats up to warmer than usual should do that.

 

[BoilerMan]

I would say that's *almost* true - in a pellet burner that augers the pellets into the burn chamber on demand, the fuel supply can be limited by the controller, which will prevent it from running away (examples include CB's Maxims, Frolling P4, ÖkoFEN, etc). In my Maxim, at any given time there is never enough fuel in the burn pot to raise the water temperature more than 1-2 degrees, and I do not believe a dump zone is necessary. In the case of burning any of these things in a traditional boiler, then yes, I agree with you.

I've seen the burner control go bad on an oil boiler and not turn the burner off, it just boiled and boiled and boiled with fresh cold water comming in to replace what was being expelled as steam out the blow off. Low water cutoff, never saw a problem, needless to say the aftermath was not a pretty basement. Although the floor was nicely steam cleaned around the boiler. A dump zone is a good thing to prevent a control malfunction from turning a hot water system into a steam system. Oh and if there is pex anywhere in the system, look up the thread about the pex explosions and the blow off valve not going off.

Just my expierences.

TS

 

[HD08Rocker]

First off WELCOME, and glad to see there is someone else w/ an Attack........

Ok, I'm going to assume that you have a 6" flue like it's supposed to have. This is just my first season with the Attack, so my help may be limited, however I'm a life-long wood burner, and the Attack replaced a wood boiler as the only heat source in my house.

As Maple said, what are your flue temps, they should be in the 250F+ reigion during a burn, I had a long thread on this awhile back. I get the fire going with the bypass damper open (lever out) and let the heat (and smoke) go up the chimney till the temp reading is at least 350-400F, this takes less than 10 min. with the upper door open just enough to allow the bypass to be open, this heats the flue up quickly. The flue temp is measured by pushing the ok button and the start button twice until a number appears with a little square in the upper right, this is the flue temp before the fan. About 30 min into a burn this reading should be in the 225F+ range and seems to stay in the 275-300 range with a good secondary burn. My boiler DID NOT run like this until I has 6 or so fires in it. I was very discouraged and at times wished my old NewYorker WC130 was still there, I did not howevget any water coming down my flue like you have, only condensation in the upper and lower chambers at first. The refractory may still be wet from moisture in the air and casting.

Can you get some known dry wood and try it? This may help to get things dried out and hot, the water running down your flue is not normal, and I have a very similar setup as you, only I have 4' single wall then 16' of interior 6" Class A. Keep us posted with results and questions, all so we can ask you more!

TS

Taylor I have got my flue temp up to around 205. I just got a fuel message on my display so I turned on my fan and added wood. Now my temp seems to be dropping. When you use the ok button to scroll thru the numbers. There is a C175 I believe that is my boiler temp. I can also see my flue temp here it is a 205 with a little circle. there is another number that has an r after it. This number is adjustable with the little knob on the left. What does that number represent? I thought it had to do with flue temp but they are different numbers.

 

[BoilerMan]

That number is what the little knob (left) is set to, when the flue is below that set temp it goes into FUEL mode and thinks the fire has gone out. I set mine for 210. The C xxx is the boiler set point, the controller will run the fan 100% until this temp is reached and then shut off, this is idle mode. I set mine (big knob on right) for C195.

TS

 

[HD08Rocker]

That number is what the little knob (left) is set to, when the flue is below that set temp it goes into FUEL mode and thinks the fire has gone out. I set mine for 210. The C xxx is the boiler set point, the controller will run the fan 100% until this temp is reached and then shut off, this is idle mode. I set mine (big knob on right) for C195.

TS

Ok I have mine set way higher than that. So I guess I should turn it down some. When the boiler goes into idle mode is when the flue temps drop correct? I set my boiler temp to 180. I just went to check and my flue temp is down to 186 and my moisture is starting again. I have the thermostat turned all the way up in the house but I guess I am not moving enuff water to keep my furnace from going into idle mode.

About the fuel message. When I added wood I do not think the bypass valve opened up. Should it? I am thinking it should open whenever the door opens. But it seems to be stuck shut since I started the fire.

 

[BoilerMan]

The bypass sticks due to tar formation in the top chamber this is normal. Rake the coalso over the nozzle and load up the wood on top of the coals. Close the bypass, and leave the door open a crack, you'll hear the secondary combustion rumble for shure. The fan turns off when the boiler reaches the temp set with the big knob, if this happens........don't open the top door, you'll wish you didn't if you do. FUEL is displayed when the flue temp is too low as set by the small knob. Idle is when the boiler is too hot and needs to idle so the heat can get pumped out.

TS

 

[HD08Rocker]

The bypass sticks due to tar formation in the top chamber this is normal. Rake the coalso over the nozzle and load up the wood on top of the coals. Close the bypass, and leave the door open a crack, you'll hear the secondary combustion rumble for shure. The fan turns off when the boiler reaches the temp set with the big knob, if this happens........don't open the top door, you'll wish you didn't if you do. FUEL is displayed when the flue temp is too low as set by the small knob. Idle is when the boiler is too hot and needs to idle so the heat can get pumped out.

TS

Flue temp down again when I went to check it and the water is running again. The boiler temp is 180 and the fan was off. Do I need to get the whole system hotter? I dont see How I can run this furnace when i am not here. I have the thermostat cranked all the way up in the house to try to keep the water moving so the fire will keep going. but this doesnt seem to be working either. Other than heating up my house hot enuff to put my wife to sleep on the couch.

When I went to check the fire(the fan was not runnign) there were a couple of puffs of smoke that came out ot the lower door. Is there a chance my chimney doesnt have a good enuff draft? Will making it taller help?

 

[BoilerMan]

The boiler temp is 180 and the fan was off. I have the thermostat cranked all the way up in the house to try to keep the water moving so the fire will keep going.

This tells us that your not able to move enough water, or you have a small house with not much radiation. Do you have baseboard, cast iron, or radiant infloor? How many feet of radiation and what type? I'm going to bet you are not moving enough water. If the fan is not going, and the boiler is at 180, or whatever the setpoint (big knob) then it's in idle, this is what is causing the condensation problems. You need to keep the heat goint out, so the fire can rage on and keep it cleanburning and hot.

TS

 

[HD08Rocker]

This tells us that your not able to move enough water, or you have a small house with not much radiation. Do you have baseboard, cast iron, or radiant infloor? How many feet of radiation and what type? I'm going to bet you are not moving enough water. If the fan is not going, and the boiler is at 180, or whatever the setpoint (big knob) then it's in idle, this is what is causing the condensation problems. You need to keep the heat goint out, so the fire can rage on and keep it cleanburning and hot.

TS

I have baseboard heaters and I have a small house. So how do I fix my problem? More circ pumps? Bigger lines?I was thinking about a modine from home depot to heat the room I just created.
Im going to go take some pictures.

 

[HD08Rocker]

I have baseboard heaters and I have a small house. So how do I fix my problem? More circ pumps? Bigger lines?I was thinking about a modine from home depot to heat the room I just created.
Im going to go take some pictures.

This is what I am tying into with my wood furnace. The water circulates in a 1 1/4 inch copper line around my basement ceiling that has baseboard heat runs off the 1 1/4 inch line. How do I get more water to circulate?

 

[maple1]

I have baseboard heaters and I have a small house. So how do I fix my problem? More circ pumps? Bigger lines?I was thinking about a modine from home depot to heat the room I just created.
Im going to go take some pictures.

We're losing track of some basics here.

How small is 'small' - in square feet? How old is it? How warm is your house getting when the wood boiler is running - is it getting up to the temps the thermostats are set for? How well insulated is it?

It could simply be that the boiler is too big for your house to operate adequately without storage. I think you need to evaluate you whole system - preferrably with someone with wood boiler experience. If your house is hot & the boiler is idling too much, you need storage or smaller fires.

 

[HD08Rocker]

We're losing track of some basics here.

How small is 'small' - in square feet? How old is it? How warm is your house getting when the wood boiler is running - is it getting up to the temps the thermostats are set for? How well insulated is it?

It could simply be that the boiler is too big for your house to operate adequately without storage. I think you need to evaluate you whole system - preferrably with someone with wood boiler experience. If your house is hot & the boiler is idling too much, you need storage or smaller fires.

The house is around 1500 sqft. built in 1957 with minimal insulation. the house got hot(warmer than we have ever had it) the thermostat is the old round style and the temp went off the scale.

 

[hartkem]

I also think you can't move enough water to get rid of the heat and that boiler seems awful big for that size of house. I have 1 1/2 copper out of my boiler transistioning to 1 1/4 thermopex which runs to 500 gallons of storage. This is my first year heating with wood and its imparitive the wood is dry and split small.

 

[maple1]

If your house is getting as hot as it sounds - I think your heat is moving but the boiler is oversized for your house. 45kw is a lot for 1500 sq.ft.. You should really have some storage - but if that is an impossibility right now, at least try smaller fires. Like 1/4 of a firebox full. But adequate storage would turn your situation around like night & day - you could likely get by with burning only once every couple of days and still be toasty warm.