ASK BEFORE YOU CUT

[Yamaha_gurl]

Alright, I have to comment on this one.

YES they should have asked to go on your property and and cut, I totally agree with that. However, I don't think punishing them to the fullest extent is a must. They seem like very poor people, the old car, their only source of heat might be wood...why ruin someones life intentionally? These are tough times right now, they might be going through hell in their own lives and getting hurt was kind of like a sign from above saying "you shouldn't be on this property"...lol, right? Just think of it if you were in their shoes.

 

[firefighterjake]

Some random thoughts.

1) Sweet . . . sometimes there truly is justice in this world.

2) Why borrow trouble . . . don't get all worked up about whether they'll sue or not sue. Cross that proverbial bridge if and when it happens . . . not everyone is sue happy.

3) Geez . . . it sure would be their bad luck if you happened to be out cutting some of your own firewood and a tree accidentally dropped on top of the car and trailer, huh?

4) I can't feel very sorry for these folks even if times are tough . . . maybe if they had "accidentally" come to a stand of woods and begun cutting without knowing this is stealing . . . but when folks cut a chain to gain entrance ? It only takes a minute or two to ask permission or a few more minutes to ask others for help.

5) To the original poster . . . you're handling this remarkably well . . . I honestly would be quite livid with these folks.

 

[jdscj8]

I agree with you totally Yamahaurl.
And if these people were poor with no money only using wood for heat, or just didn't have the extra money right now. I know i've been there. I would have invited them back made a deal with them, that if they helped lump some wood to me while i split it or helped with horse or yard chores for a few hours. I would have had no problem giving them a good cord ready to burn to get through the rest of the season, ya know it wouldn't have been the first time doing that. I don't have to pay for the wood, and i don't hoard it, so its not a big deal. I figure it takes me about 3 or so hours a cord to cut, split, stack, and clean up, so if someone don't have the money to buy it all i ask is for them to work off the time i have into it. But, and heres the big, BUT, this guy has a trust fund, more then i would see in 5,6,7,?? lifetimes. Whe asked why they did it they said " just to do it, i didn't think it would hurt anything" So theres were i stand on why i didn't just drop it. I have never nor would never even think of ruining someones life intentionally.
As for the car, maybe they were trying to see how the other side lived. I've heard of people doing that. But i don't know.

My daughter shes 12 goes by Yama-gurl, she named her barrel racing horse Yamaha. She said it made him faster, i give her crap, saying to make sure you kick him out the gate or he'll just coast.

 

[gpcollen1]

I do believe that if the property is posted, they can sue all they want but will get nothing. My neighbor posted his - and we only have 2 acre lots - because kids were crossing his property to get to the mountain behind us. He cited chapter and verse why he did this and how he was protected just by posting the property.

 

[jdscj8]

O yah about the car, a tow truck showed up here at 7:30 this morning wanted in the gate, he was upset it was locked and that he had to come up to the house. He was more upset when i wouldn't let him take the car with out a sheriff here, to look over it and prove he was suppost to be there. Ya never know, so cover your ass, is what dad always told me. But the tow truck driver would not take the trailer, he said he was not told about any trailer so its not his problem. I told him i hope i never have to call you with my boat behind my truck, it would still be sittin on the road. I'm trying to figure out what kind of poeple are living around here anymore. I feel like i'm living in a CARTOON.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Well that's a pretty funny story, especially the part about the guy almost falling the tree on his wife and she has to jump in the creek to save herself. No wonder you feel like you're living in a cartoon. LOL
Good thing you found them when you did, it wouldn't be nearly as funny a story if you just found a couple corpses in the creek the following day.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[KarlP]

the macdonalds case was appealed, the final settlement was 30k for her medical bills, (the most insane part was she was a passenger on the back of a big motorcycle) of that 30k her lawyer got 1/3 so she lost 10k for her trouble. (good!) AND you all pay for that case every time you eat at Mcd's. ( I worked there, they told all of us the final outcome)

If its the McDonalds case everyone normally thinks about there is a TON of misinformation in that post.

The coffee was WAY too hot. She was in a car and not the driver. She got third degree burns on her crotch in a matter of seconds and had to spend several days in the hospital from spilling the coffee. The woman wanted ~$20k to cover her medical expenses and pain and suffering and McDonalds refused. McDonalds knew their coffee was too hot to be safe for many years and several hundred other people were burned. The huge number was because jury decided to punish the company for two days worth of coffee sales because the company had repeatedly ignored the safety issue.


(broken link removed)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

 

[jdemaris]

If they didn't ask, they were trespassing and stealing. Plain and simple.

I wish it was that simple, but it's not. In most if not all states an illegal trespass has happened only when the land is posted and you can prove the intruder saw and read the sign. I.e., the landowner has to prove the intruder knew he or she was trespassing. Very hard to prove the first time. To make things even worse, a landowner has to prove ownership of the trees if someone came in and cut them. My "next-door" neighbor has 140 acres of woods where I caught a logger stealing trees last year. Before the police would even charge the guy, the land-owner had to pay for a $3000 survey. And, even such a survey does not prove ownership all the time, but it helps. When the case gets done, if the guy gets found guilty, he won't be paying any replacement costs for trees, just a small preset rate.

 

[jdscj8]

Im not worried about getting paid for anything. its more the point of respect and safty. the sign is on the fence they cut the lock off of and the trees are inside our fenced horse pasture.

 

[CowboyAndy]

I think there is no question wheather these people knew they were trespassing... they had to cut the friggin gate!

 

[dvellone]

Amen to asking first! I had to ask a fellow this past fall with a pickup truck full of hardwood to kindly remove himself from my property where he had just arrived and was sawing up a cherry that had fallen. He was a bit off the shoulder of the road which many folks think is free range for firewood scrounging neglecting to consider that even though it may be within the road right-of-way someone is still paying the taxes on it. He commented that he didn't think it was private property which is sort of amusing since here in the Adirondacks if it's not private it's Forest Preserve, and you generally can't cut and remove any wood from it. I had to explain to my puzzled 6 year old that before we owned property we had to buy all of our firewood or get it in exchange for clearing a site, and that even though we don't hand over money to anyone for our firewood now we still pay for it in terms of the cost of our land and the taxes we pay on it and because of that the guy was, in a sense, stealing from us since he'd neither earned the right to cut there nor made us any offer for the wood.

 

[jdscj8]

some pics, i think i did it right (broken link removed to http://picasaweb.google.com/jdscj8/20090302?authkey=Gv1sRgCKihr42m_-WR7wE)

 

[madrone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4

 

[savageactor7]

Well hell there's no way they can deny trespassing and malicious mischief with that fence and sigh. I don't think you have anything to worry about jdscj8.

 

[ashpanannie]

Could they have picked a worse spot???? Sheesh! I nominate them for the Darwin Awards.

 

[rphurley]

O yah about the car, a tow truck showed up here at 7:30 this morning wanted in the gate, he was upset it was locked and that he had to come up to the house. He was more upset when i wouldn't let him take the car with out a sheriff here, to look over it and prove he was suppost to be there. Ya never know, so cover your ass, is what dad always told me. But the tow truck driver would not take the trailer, he said he was not told about any trailer so its not his problem. I told him i hope i never have to call you with my boat behind my truck, it would still be sittin on the road. I'm trying to figure out what kind of poeple are living around here anymore. I feel like i'm living in a CARTOON.

Maybe a cyclone came and transported you to New England! Tap your heels and you'll be back in Nebraska. There's no place like home. ;-)

 

[jdscj8]

I got a letter today from the couple. In the letter they said they were sorry about the incedent and that a guy i had let get some wood last year told them where it was. I guess he had told them to just go in and get it, no one would know who did it. So the law wants to talk with him now. there asking if we can work something out between us, if i would drop the charges. Whats your take on it.

 

[KarlP]

asking if we can work something out between us, if i would drop the charges. Whats your take on it.

I don't think this was a case of "We were freezing. We honestly thought the no tresspassing signs were old and the property was abandoned." which MIGHT get some sympathy from me.

If they knew someone who had gotten wood there before and CUT the gate open, they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. I wouldn't let them off easy.

Either let the law deal with them or offer some hard labor. Do you have plenty of trees and know of some charity willing to accept firewood for the poor. Have this couple cut stack and split 20 cords from your land with hand saws and axes. You can write off the value of split seasoned firewood. Four or five poor families will get heat they need. The theives can do some hard labor for their crime.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

I know of several places around here where people put up gates and post no trespassing on mountain access roads that are legally suppose to be kept open for the public. You see there is no real law against posting signs like that because the access roads do cut though their property and if you venture off the road you are trespassing.
The key point here though seems to be that they cut the lock and made no attempt to contact you the land owner before doing so, both go against them very strongly. I guess you gota decide what you think is fair. Personally I would just get them to replace the lock and promise never to cut anyone's lock again or access property with out asking. Posted (no trespassing) or not.
Punishment is over used and has little effect. The prisons are full off people being punished, most come out with a chip on their shoulder.

Forgive them, it will teach them a lesson.

 

[jdscj8]

Thats what i was thinking get them to do something and let it go. Maybe let it go to the last day before court make um think about it for awile longer then tell um what i want um to do. I like the charity, give it or sell it and donate the money. We have plenty of trees.

 

[KarlP]

Maybe let it go to the last day before court make um think about it for awile longer then tell um what i want um to do.

I think you'd be better off saying "If you want to avoid the courts, I'll drop the charges if you X by the court date." Otherwise a theif will just agree to it and then walk away.

 

[Apprentice_GM]

I'm with KarlP above - I would get them to do some cutting and splitting either for you or for charity (or a bit of both) by a fixed date. They do it, you drop charges. They still should pay for new lock and/or chain. Their attitude so far is good, apology not a lawsuit, I would forgive them - a mistake by them (which could have been fatal) and a lesson learned is a fair bit short of a criminal record which seems to be the 2 options.

 

[JustWood]

A lock is a lock. Doesn't matter if it's on your house,shop ,tree stand,bicycle ,safe or jewelry box.The fact that they had the right tools to cut the lock shows malicious intent. Let the charges ride! They knew what they were doing

 

[stoveguy13]

make them sing a realeas you from any liabillty and have a lawyer draw it up so they cant try and get you later and forget it just protect your ass and make them pay the lawyer fees

 

[savageactor7]

jdscj8 I wouldn't advise you to have that couple back under any circumstances. Forget about the replacement chain and lock too...just be pleased if they sign a consent to avoid the place. DONE!