Ariens rideon lawnmower - any experiences??

[Swedishchef]

No idea Jake. I presume it is like other decent brand name machines: their lower end models are likely manufactured by another company however the higher end ones aren't. However I am purely speculating.....

Andrew

 

[BrotherBart]

Don't know Jake but I just checked and the list price on this one is $9,520.

Kubota 3-cylinder DIESEL engine
Hydrostatic transmission
Mechanical 4 Wheel Drive
Power Steering
Internal wet-clutch PTO
Hydraulic lift mower deck
Glide-Steer technology
48 or 54" mower deck
Snow blade, snow blower, & bagger options
MADE IN THE USA

 

[begreen]

Wonder what the ROI is on that one?

 

[begreen]

Are these HP ratings on new tractors for real? My old 1963 Cub 123 hydrostatic had a 12hp Kohler K301, and ran a 48" mower deck or 42" snow blower, without slowing down. I bet it would pull one of these new 22hp lawn tractors backwards uphill, without much struggle.

Do you mean like this?
(broken link removed to http://www.wimp.com/powertractor/)

 

[Ashful]

Wonder what the ROI is on that one?

Immediate and lasting satisfaction?

 

[Ashful]

It's not just horsepower, torque is important. Is the CUT diesel? If so, that would be like comparing apples to oranges.

Of course, and yes, my CUT is diesel. But, my main point... the 1963 Cub Cadet was not. I would be willing to bet that 12 hp Cub Cadet had more real horsepower than the lawn tractors badged "22 hp" today. After all, it ran implements of equal size, with zero trouble. When it comes to running implements, horsepower is as important as torque, since you need to keep your mower deck or snow thrower at speed when loaded.

Horsepower isn't the issue with the yard/garden tractors. They have plenty. Traction is the problem given their light weight.

This is true, you almost always run out of traction before horsepower, when pulling. However, running implements is another matter. You're not going to run a 42" or 48" mower deck thru tall grass in spring time without the HP to keep it turning at speed.

 

[BrotherBart]

The horsepower thing is a marketing deal. My 22 hp Briggs in the AYP garden tractor has at least a third more horsepower than has ever been used. And most of the time it is used to pull a pretty large trailer of big oak rounds uphill to the house. It loses traction long befor it even thinks about running out of guts. It is too light to maintain traction even with the trailer tongue loaded and real wheel weights and chains on it. It does a little better than its predecessor, that was 18 hp, just because it is heavier than that one was.

And the shaft drive on older ones helps too.

 

[Ashful]

Funny timing on this. Was just killing time sorting some old photos dumped off my phone, and came across this one:



THAT is why you need HP, my friend.

 

[begreen]

Immediate and lasting satisfaction?

I get that and more with the $7320 savings by getting the Craftsman.

 

[Ashful]

I get that and more with the $7320 savings by getting the Craftsman.

Amen, brother. I see these sub-compact utility tractors, going for five figures, and just can't understand it. I paid much less than the above-mentioned $9,520 for the 4wd Deere 855 in my post above. It's old, but it has a lot of years left in it.

 

[Swedishchef]

Maybe the man in the picture on the mower is a robot? Therefore for that price you simply need to fill with gas and the robot mows for you. THAT would be a great ROI?hahah.

 

[begreen]

Google is probably secretly working on RoboMow."Honey, have you seen Fifi anywhere? She was outside playing a minute ago."

 

[BrotherBart]

"Google Grass"

 

[BrotherBart]

I want this one.

(broken image removed)

 

[Highbeam]

Well since hp is simply a product of torque and an rpm and since all of these engines run at 3600, we should be able to compare hp ratings with no thought given to torque. I believe that hp ratings are fairly bogus. Also, the current big box mowers all have plenty of power.

My mower has 500cc and just under 20hp. I was cruising down the freeway on my motorcycle with just 250cc last week.

I was thinking about this thread yesterday while mowing armpit high fescue with 30 diesel hp. I was using evrry bit of that power and slowing down as needed to keep rpm up.

 

[Ashful]

I want this one.

(broken image removed)

Keep that photo on hand for the next, "our economy is going to hell" thread, Bart. This is proof that even the rednecks have ample spare time and coin.

 

[BrotherBart]

Keep that photo on hand for the next, "our economy is going to hell" thread, Bart. This is proof that even the rednecks have ample spare time and coin.

Or access to a junkyard and no job so he has time on his hands.

 

[Ashful]

Mighty expensive looking seat...

 

[Jags]

I would be willing to bet that 12 hp Cub Cadet had more real horsepower than the lawn tractors badged "22 hp" today.

I have the same questions on these big HP machines pulling a 42" deck.

This is 12HP and runs a 48" deck (very well):


This is 24 HP and toys with a 60" deck:


Anybody wanna chain their 22/24 HP garden tractor to it?
(warning: I think the 4200 pounds might give me a little unfair advantage)

 

[BrotherBart]

One of the goofiest things about the garden tractors is engines over 20 hp tied to the transmission with a single V belt.

 

[Highbeam]

One of the goofiest things about the garden tractors is engines over 20 hp tied to the transmission with a single V belt.

It's thin like a fan belt too. We have a couple things going on, some cheezy rules used to determine HP and also some misunderstanding of what HP is and whether or not it matters much for a working engine. The manufacturers have been trying to use torque instead of HP for awhile now but we consumers demand to know the HP.

So if we were to use the same rules allowing these modern 3600 rpm gas engines to get 20 hp out of 500 cc then what do you suppose the tractors would be rated at?

Oh and again with the RPM and torque, the old tractors use a low rpm engine. Their max rpm was often well below 2000. Since HP is directly related to rpm, if the tractor engine could rev higher and not loose much torque then it would get a bump in HP. This is how the modern diesel trucks went from 140 HP to 400 HP, they "just" raised the redline after adding some tricks that prevent the torque from dropping off too fast at those high revs.

 

[begreen]

It's common in these small engines for the peak torque to be at many rpms less than the peak hp. Another factor could be bore vs stroke? I would guess that the compact design of a vertical vs horiz output engine might compromise stroke, but that's just a guess.

 

[AK13]

That's my mower with an ariens name tag on it. Mine is a craftsman. Honestly, I love the thing.

Be warned though, this mower has the 500cc briggs engine that is known for popping head gaskets. Same engine is in the john deere mowers at home depot. I had mine pop last fall after mowing for a few years. I replaced the gasket myself with simple hand tools for the cost of the 10 dollar gasket from amazon.com and with the guidance of excellent youtube videos.

Thanks. I will have to check it out. The Ariens website says its a Kohler engine but HD clearly says its a Briggs. It must be a popular model to have 748 reviews. I don't quite understand the gear drive vs. hydrostatic. Does that mean that it has a clutch? I'd be just as happy with a Craftsman, but the orange is a little nicer than the grey

 

[Highbeam]

It's common in these small engines for the peak torque to be at many rpms less than the peak hp.

Same with diesels and most other engines. It makes for a cool thing called torque rise where you work the engine at peak HP (PTO 540)and then as rpm falls due to overload, the torque available actually comes up so the engine can limit the rpm drop. You really feel the rpm drop off faster as you fall below that torque peak.

My walk behind tiller has an 8 on the side of the engine which I always thought was HP but at that time Poulan was labeling the small engines with torque so it is 8 ft-lbs or newton meters or some other non-HP jibberish that I have a hard time "feeling". Turns out it is a low HP engine.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks. I will have to check it out. The Ariens website says its a Kohler engine but HD clearly says its a Briggs. It must be a popular model to have 748 reviews. I don't quite understand the gear drive vs. hydrostatic. Does that mean that it has a clutch? I'd be just as happy with a Craftsman, but the orange is a little nicer than the grey

The gear models have a clutch and a gear shifter lever. Selecting gears isn't an H-pattern but just a slide. There are 6 forward gears, all the way back is top speed and all the way forward is reverse with a neutral in the middle. The clutch is also the brake pedal just like a bulldozer. You push it down a little for clutch and all the way down to hit the brake. Your right foot does nothing.

You can choose by color and price, the machine is the same. In fact, I use husky blades from HD instead of buying them from sears.