Are their any happy Greenwood owners out their????

[bigburner]

Can't speak to the brand, but my shed is all cement board walls/ceiling. A guy I know after he had same situation put his is a 22 ft van body next to new shop, we ran over piping from his old location over head in a 6 inch tube that was about 7 ft up so he had a clear side wall around boiler. Google NPFA13D several pdf's there.

 

[MarcM]

Scott. Would you be able to copy/scan/ ?? relevant sections of the NFPA you refer to and drop it here for all to see. I would be interested to see where the 'States is heading with regard to residential sprinkler requirements and odd occupancies like combined motor vehicle garages and wood heat boilers. Thanks!

I can outline the following basic code parameters that will steer you in the right path and you could always PM me with specific aid you may require.

a) Water supply: 1. Well water fed homes over 2,000 sq ft and 2 stories in height.
2. Stored water is required to provide a 10 minute duration of system demand and if there is common supply piping serving both
domestic & fire sprks, an additional 5gpm must be added to the system demand calcs for supply.
ie: system needs 60gallons @ 19psi to operate, thus a water supply of 600 gallons in storage and properly sized booster pump,
or pressure tank is needed.
3. There are packaged units of storage/pump specifically made for residential systems.
4. If house is 1 story and under 2,000 sq ft, the required duration is reduced to 7minutes,
ie: same demand as above requires 315gpm @ 19psi.
From NFPA 13D(2002) CHAPTER 6, 6.1 and pump/storage per 6.2(4). * 6.3


b) System Design: 5. Residential heads type heads shall be used(Such as Reliable FI Res), if Std heads are used the ref standard NFPA13 and
sizes and coverages become more cost prohibitive and the spray patterns are not as desirable.
6. A design density of .05 gpm/ft2 must be used for hydraulic design calculations(Res hds only)
7. Proper coverage based on AS BUILT plans, where sprk heads are providing coverage as per their approved listings,
is required and obviously this is where one needs to be very careful with coverage and study installation requirements very closely
( I will try to scan this section and have it available if needed by anyone in this forum.). A competent designer should be involved in
these layouts and final calculations needed(especially required by the insurance companies and local AHJ).

c) Piping/materials: 7. Blaze master PVC piping or Black steel, copper if you prefer a certain exposed look(ka-chiing,$$)


d) Garages are not required to have coverage(Sec. 8.6.4), but if supplied with sprks per AJH requirement, refer to A.8.6.4(NFPA 13d) and based on a 2 head design of Res heads or Quick Response hds., utilizing the same piping as remainder of home.
The garage should never be combined with any type of combustion devices, unless there is sufficient fire rated demising.

e)Regarding boiler rooms, a preferred coverage would be 130 sq ft or less per sprk head(ord haz rating) and not exceeding 7'-0" from any wall, as a basic rule, but also be aware of obstructions.


That is all for now, from the top of my head, got to get back to work.

Scott

While I've learned system design in school, I haven't done any in almost seven years since I've been out, thought I do work in the fire protection industry, I think I'd want more than .05 protecting my boiler. I wouldn't use a residential sprinkler for that space either. I haven't looked at 13R recently but I'd be interested to see what they say about a space like that.

 

[skfire]

[

While I've learned system design in school, I haven't done any in almost seven years since I've been out, thought I do work in the fire protection industry, I think I'd want more than .05 protecting my boiler. I wouldn't use a residential sprinkler for that space either. I haven't looked at 13R recently but I'd be interested to see what they say about a space like that.

[/quote]


NFPA 13D(one and two family dwellings and manufactured homes), encompasses the house as a single district/zone system
(even the garage, see A.8.6.4)

You referenced NFPA13R which is for residential occupancies up to 4 stories in height.

The minimum design density for residential as per NFPA 13D is .05 per section 8.1.1.2.2.
This density is used for the area of application which will consist of a calculation of 4 hds in the most remote area(usually not the boiler room, which at most has 2 hds, in average homes and is usually very close to the water source).

If you want to section off the boiler room and use STD or QR hds , then it has to be zoned separately and then under NFPA13 a design density of .15 is required.

Under the requirements of NFPA 13Dfor a res head must see a min of 18gpm to any head in the system, where under NFPA13 a std head can see a min of 14.9gpm. Additionally, the res head has better throw pattern regarding combustible wetting and higher reaction times. So under 13D you have higher flows and faster response hds.

Of course we are not discussing standard boiler room here, but residential scale boiler rooms, under the NFAP13D definitions(not adequately defined for boilers let alone wood boilers). Also please see paragraph e) of my original post.

INHO, just having ANY sprk head with an adequate water supply and rudimentary design would suffice in saving a home.
The degrees of design can vary pending on local AHJ, owner preferences and $$$$$.

Scott

 

[MarcM]

NFPA 13D(one and two family dwellings and manufactured homes), encompasses the house as a single district/zone system
(even the garage, see A.8.6.4)

You referenced NFPA13R which is for residential occupancies up to 4 stories in height.

The minimum design density for residential as per NFPA 13D is .05 per section 8.1.1.2.2.
This density is used for the area of application which will consist of a calculation of 4 hds in the most remote area(usually not the boiler room, which at most has 2 hds, in average homes and is usually very close to the water source).

If you want to section off the boiler room and use STD or QR hds , then it has to be zoned separately and then under NFPA13 a design density of .15 is required.

Under the requirements of NFPA 13Dfor a res head must see a min of 18gpm to any head in the system, where under NFPA13 a std head can see a min of 14.9gpm. Additionally, the res head has better throw pattern regarding combustible wetting and higher reaction times. So under 13D you have higher flows and faster response hds.

Of course we are not discussing standard boiler room here, but residential scale boiler rooms, under the NFAP13D definitions(not adequately defined for boilers let alone wood boilers). Also please see paragraph e) of my original post.

INHO, just having ANY sprk head with an adequate water supply and rudimentary design would suffice in saving a home.
The degrees of design can vary pending on local AHJ, owner preferences and $$$$$.

Scott

Thanks for the info, the min. density for 4 most remote heads is the same in D as in R. Like I said, I don't do system design and don't keep up on 13... although I do have a code subscription through work, reading model codes is worse than anything else I can think of. Anyway, my point/question was just I'm surprised that they don't make an exception for a room like a boiler room in a residential system. Residential sprinklers are deisng to work well with low pressure, but they're also design specifically for the typical combustible load and arrangment in a residential setting. You alluded to that regarding their discharge pattern, which I am very familiar with. All of the full scale testing done in developing the requirements for that pattern didn't include the type of load and arrangment of a residential boiler room. It's not a "better" pattern than commercial head, just different. And to clarify, the sensitivity requirements for a residential head are almost exactly the same as a QR head. RTI of less than 90, pretty much. There's an additional offset test done on a res head, but I'm sure any QR head would pass. The almost all use the same exact Job F3 3mm or Norbulb N3 3mm bulb.

The whole residential/standard spray distinction is a strange one anyway, as the res. sprinkler was designed with the goal of prevent flashover in the room of origin and intended use as a lifesafety rather than property conservation device. The fact is, I don't think anyone knows for sure how a residential sprinkelr would work for a boiler fire because it has never been tested AFAIK. And it certainly is a different fire load than what is used in a residential sprinkler fire test (see FM Class 2030 or UL1626). Anyway, you sound like you know the code well. I don't want to derail anyone's thinking as far as that goes. It's always best to check with your AHJ. I'm just gum flapping at this point. Didn't mean to threadjack. Apologies to the OP.

 

[skfire]

Hopefully insurance companies will make it affordable to have these implemented. The current discount is ridiculous when compared to the cost factor involved.
In the end, good fire protection practices begin with prevention and maintenance.

Take care

Scott