Anton Smirnov said:
my basement is cooler, no doubt.....but its also a repository ofr junk, and doesnt matter what temp it is as long as my pipes dont freeze....hasnt happened yet.....maybe 40 degrees on the coldest day of February, but Im guessing.
Any updated Pellet pricing now that we're into August?
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my basement is cooler, no doubt.....but its also a repository ofr junk, and doesnt matter what temp it is as long as my pipes dont freeze....hasnt happened yet.....maybe 40 degrees on the coldest day of February, but Im guessing.
oh, no, not David_V again! *shiver*.....hey.....Dave_1....David_V.....hmmm.....
I dont think you can just look at the fuel, and make endpoint judgements like that, Craig. A BTU IS a BTU, but thats not the whole equation. The outside boiler issue VS freestanding inside wood burning unit? Both use wood....same fuel, same BTU, but WAY different efficiency!
I dont think you can just look at the fuel, and make endpoint judgements like that, Craig. A BTU IS a BTU, but thats not the whole equation. The outside boiler issue VS freestanding inside wood burning unit? Both use wood....same fuel, same BTU, but WAY different efficiency!
Harry Harry, look at my words:
"I say we use the BTU content and efficiency......that’s my story and I am sticking to it."
Notice efficiency is the second part of the equation....OK, I've had it, I'm calling David V to make certain Harry is not fleecing folks with this 500 gallons of oil = one ton pellets thing.
"I say we use the BTU content and efficiency......that’s my story and I am sticking to it."
Notice efficiency is the second part of the equation....OK, I've had it, I'm calling David V to make certain Harry is not fleecing folks with this 500 gallons of oil = one ton pellets thing.
noooo......i think its 300 gals/ton! Maybe Ill corner the corn market next....buy up all the futures...make the prices rise, then dump 'em, once Ive made my billions! WHen are you buying corn for your stove, Craig? Actually, corn is being genetically engineered now to provide fairly high BTU's/lb...well over whats commonly available these days.
HarryBack said:
Is your basement insulated? Mine isn't.
The oil furnace uses a lot of BTUs to warm up that basement. And that probably is what was happening with your house as well (also, my heating pipes run along the outside walls, so it's a race between the heat reaching the radiator & leaking through the insulation)
I think perhaps people are confusing the application of BTU's vs BTU's available.
My furnace is propane fired, might put out 80,000BTUs but if heat system isnt laid out well it still wont work.
I have a 2500sq/ft open concept house, open living room with cathederal celing up to a loft that leads to the bedroom, downstairs the kitchen is off the living room, entry way is also open to the loft. 2 bedrooms and a bath down the hall.
I have the problem of too much heat in the bedrooms/bath and not enough in the main living area. The thermostat is located in the open area. The baseboard heating area isnt enough to get the main area of the house up to temp. SO the thermostat tells the furnace we want 68* but the room will never get there. The bedrooms however are 80*.
I put the pellet stove in my house in an attempt to even the heating and reduce my dependance on the propane.
My furnace is propane fired, might put out 80,000BTUs but if heat system isnt laid out well it still wont work.
I have a 2500sq/ft open concept house, open living room with cathederal celing up to a loft that leads to the bedroom, downstairs the kitchen is off the living room, entry way is also open to the loft. 2 bedrooms and a bath down the hall.
I have the problem of too much heat in the bedrooms/bath and not enough in the main living area. The thermostat is located in the open area. The baseboard heating area isnt enough to get the main area of the house up to temp. SO the thermostat tells the furnace we want 68* but the room will never get there. The bedrooms however are 80*.
I put the pellet stove in my house in an attempt to even the heating and reduce my dependance on the propane.
Ted, what you are talking about is mentioned earlier - we call it the savings of space heat over central heat. This is true whatever the fuel. Central heat can be quite efficient, but by nature it usually heats all of the house at once - or at least large areas. There can also be delivery problems as you mention.
My guess is that the space heat savings can be from 25% to 50% - of course, with some rooms not being as warm, etc. That's a big savings!
This savings is a big part of the reason for everything from kerosene heaters to electric heaters to wood, pellet and gas stoves and inserts.
My guess is that the space heat savings can be from 25% to 50% - of course, with some rooms not being as warm, etc. That's a big savings!
This savings is a big part of the reason for everything from kerosene heaters to electric heaters to wood, pellet and gas stoves and inserts.
HarryBack said:
Corn? I'm coming to Palmer to grab some nuclur pellets! I've heard they are twice as powerful as the western ones. Why burn corn when I can save thousands by using them Palmer Pellets.
Webmaster said:
Probably a dumb question but most premium pellets advertize 8,000-9,000 BTUs. Why the difference? I appologize if this is common knowledge here. I search it but didn't see anything.
I have a natural gas furnace and hot water heater, but wanted to get away from using as much NG as I could. I bought my pellet stove to heat as much of the rooms in the house as I could. I don't leave my pellet stove going full time, only when we're home and awake. The insulation of the housekeeps the heat in very well. Maybe that's another factor to look at....still won't make a difference of "BTU's vs BTU's" but may suggest another heating factor. I notice a drop in half every month of my NG bill with the pellet stove "helping out". From Feb on, I burned 30 bags. I figure that the pellet stove pays for itself, but then it may be the "newness thing".
The other thing that I did when comparing my results with the wood stove versus prior years was to correct for heating degree days. Remember that last January was exceptionally warm in the northeast at least - there was a drop of 27% in heating degree days in 2006. If someone compared a bill for last year January with their new stove against January the year before with oil, you'd be misleading yourself by 27% right off the bat - you simply didn't need as much heat this past January no matter what the system you used.
I think when you hear these claims that someone's wood, pellets, or any other fuel saved them money, you have to first to the energy balance on BTUs and see if it passes that test. For example, over last year, after correcting for heating degree day differences, I concluded that I saved 320 gallons of oil for the season. I burned about 2 1/2 cords of wood to accomplish that, and in the process kept most of my house quite a bit warmer - some far corners a little cooler. On a straight BTU energy balance, a cord of wood is ~150-200 gallons of oil depending on your type of wood, so this at least passes the energy balance test a little better and doesn't make unreasonable claims that can't possibly add up.
If the BTUs you think you saved in your old system doesn't add up with BTUs of wood or other new fuel consumed, then something else is coming into play like inadequate efficiency on their older system, climate differences year to year, space heating that is sacrificing heat to some part of the house, etc...
-Colin
I think when you hear these claims that someone's wood, pellets, or any other fuel saved them money, you have to first to the energy balance on BTUs and see if it passes that test. For example, over last year, after correcting for heating degree day differences, I concluded that I saved 320 gallons of oil for the season. I burned about 2 1/2 cords of wood to accomplish that, and in the process kept most of my house quite a bit warmer - some far corners a little cooler. On a straight BTU energy balance, a cord of wood is ~150-200 gallons of oil depending on your type of wood, so this at least passes the energy balance test a little better and doesn't make unreasonable claims that can't possibly add up.
If the BTUs you think you saved in your old system doesn't add up with BTUs of wood or other new fuel consumed, then something else is coming into play like inadequate efficiency on their older system, climate differences year to year, space heating that is sacrificing heat to some part of the house, etc...
-Colin
Good Point NY Soap.
However even with our mild Jan I still only burned 100 gallons less propane in 05-06 than I did in 04-05.
To me the pellet stove is about applying the right amount of heat in the right place while trying to save some $ on propane use.
IF all goes as planned I expect to 1/2 my propane use...maybe more.
Between that and the Civic Hybrid we purchased last winter Im way ahead of the oil sheiks.
However even with our mild Jan I still only burned 100 gallons less propane in 05-06 than I did in 04-05.
To me the pellet stove is about applying the right amount of heat in the right place while trying to save some $ on propane use.
IF all goes as planned I expect to 1/2 my propane use...maybe more.
Between that and the Civic Hybrid we purchased last winter Im way ahead of the oil sheiks.
TedNH said:
no, no, NO! Don't metion Hybred cars here, or you'll get the whole "my 70's dodge had 2 cylinders and ran for a whole year on a gallon of gas" thread started again.
Webmaster said:
*sigh*
Craig, i know you are from Jersey, but to fit in, as long as you are pronouncing nucular the right way, just so you know....Palmer is pronounced Parmer.
OK Back to the regularly scheduled program..... 
Home Despot has "Stove Chow" pellets @ $279 a ton
Local DIY Chain has "Energex" @$262 a ton
Home Despot has "Stove Chow" pellets @ $279 a ton
Local DIY Chain has "Energex" @$262 a ton
PutnamJct said:OK Back to the regularly scheduled program.....
Home Despot has "Stove Chow" pellets @ $279 a ton
Local DIY Chain has "Energex" @$262 a ton
Ah, putnam - your figures gave me a great math idea and it turns out that it works.....
Just take the pellet price per ton and move the decimal 2 places, you have the approx. price of oil that it would be comparable to - BTU for BTU, with default deficiencies. Note that this does not take the miracle of Hanukah into the figures - but at the fuel cost calculator, it works out.
So, $279.00 a ton is equal to $2.79 a gallon. On course, the oil does not have to picked up at that price!
Then again, oil does not grow on trees and people have not been known to have romantic interludes in front of their oil burner.
Webmaster said:
Oh man, are you still picking on me about my nucular pellets :lol:
Believe it or not oil up here is $2.69 a gallon.
What a bargain!!
"Then again, oil does not grow on trees and people have not been known to have romantic interludes in front of their oil burner."
Now on the other hand, in their car... ;-P
Now on the other hand, in their car... ;-P
Pellets still selling here at $180/ton or less if you shop harder. I wish we could get oil for $1.80/gal. Currently $2.99.
Webmaster said:PutnamJct said:OK Back to the regularly scheduled program.....
Home Despot has "Stove Chow" pellets @ $279 a ton
Local DIY Chain has "Energex" @$262 a ton
Ah, putnam - your figures gave me a great math idea and it turns out that it works.....
Just take the pellet price per ton and move the decimal 2 places, you have the approx. price of oil that it would be comparable to - BTU for BTU, with default deficiencies. Note that this does not take the miracle of Hanukah into the figures - but at the fuel cost calculator, it works out.
So, $279.00 a ton is equal to $2.79 a gallon. On course, the oil does not have to picked up at that price!
Then again, oil does not grow on trees and people have not been known to have romantic interludes in front of their oil burner.
And, of course, oil isnt renewable, and part of that pellet profit doesnt go into funding terrorism either. I also dont recall the last romatic interlude Ive had in front of my pellet stove either...with 4 kids running around (that was b4 the pellet stove).
okok- new pricing as follows:
New England Premium Hardwood Pellets- $259/ton (~8300 BTU's/lb)
New England Standard Pellets- $219/ton (~7600 BTU's/lb)
Quality Premium Softwood Pellets- $239/ton
Allegheny Premium Pellets- $259/ton
all "picked up" pricing
also, supplies are drying up in our area with the hardwood pellets, softwoods still readily available....checked Lowes' pricing, the salesperson had no idea what brand it was, what type of pellet either...they only knew they were $279/ton. Home Depot didnt have any yet.
Starting to get into the realm of ridiculous......when it hit $300 a ton delivered, in my opinion, it is in a total "leisure" category.....about equal to $350-$400 a cord hardwood.
It will be interesting to see how supply and demand works in the future - while it may be easy to pump another stove off the assembly line, building a pellet plant and then supplying it with material and creating a supply chain is a little harder.
Of course, by another measure, at $300 people could just exaggerate a little more...
"I heat my entire house in upstate NY with only 6 - OH, I mean 4 tons of Pellets".
Also, Harry could include some plastic sheets with each pellet stove - to close off 1/2 of the house!
Looks like I'll have to go on a quest for corn or cherry pits!
It will be interesting to see how supply and demand works in the future - while it may be easy to pump another stove off the assembly line, building a pellet plant and then supplying it with material and creating a supply chain is a little harder.
Of course, by another measure, at $300 people could just exaggerate a little more...
"I heat my entire house in upstate NY with only 6 - OH, I mean 4 tons of Pellets".
Also, Harry could include some plastic sheets with each pellet stove - to close off 1/2 of the house!
Looks like I'll have to go on a quest for corn or cherry pits!
Large distributor in my area - "Sold out entire stock for season" over 10,000 tons. Will be getting trucks "here and there" throughtout the season. Said people were ready to kill him! I know money is tight, but it was to be expected, and people should have bought early... Also noticed the sign at Agway advertising pellets is down.
RE: Funding terror....
Just you wait - The Saudi and other middle east investment groups already own vast blocks of many public-traded companies.....
A Kuwati company was in charge of security at the WTC at the time of the attacks.
For all we know, they have bought paper companies and own 1/2 of Maine!
Yes, it's a small, small world.
As it is now, you can only be sure if you cut the trees on your land by yourself (and I'd bet some of the tools are owned by the Saudis and Kuwaitis also).....
Just you wait - The Saudi and other middle east investment groups already own vast blocks of many public-traded companies.....
A Kuwati company was in charge of security at the WTC at the time of the attacks.
For all we know, they have bought paper companies and own 1/2 of Maine!
Yes, it's a small, small world.
As it is now, you can only be sure if you cut the trees on your land by yourself (and I'd bet some of the tools are owned by the Saudis and Kuwaitis also).....
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