Another Wood Stove in a Pole Barn thread

[Mike Cook]

Greetings!

I've been lurking for a while now, finally got off my butt and composed a few questions. Your opinions are appreciated.

For my pole barn workshop I have bought a Country Comfort CC175 off Craigslist. It's on the EPA list of certified wood stoves, and it meets Washington State Limits (barely).

Code requires that the stove be 18" off the floor if it's installed in a garage. Is the 18" measured from the bottom of the firebox or the pedestal attached to the stove?

Any thoughts on the platform and heat shield? I'm thinking of cinder blocks with a metal sheet across them. I'd fill the blocks with sackrete (sp?) and make sure it's stable, but want to keep the cost to a minimum. Having a nice big thermal mass under the stove is part of the idea too (and it would be built to allow air flow under the platform).

As far as a heat shield, I'm thinking of a simple block wall filled with sackrete behind the stove. I'd build the wall 6 or 8" from the shop wall and put a couple of small wings on it. Crude diagram below

\_Stove_/
____________

Air could flow all the way around it, and it would provide a little residual heat so the shop doesn't cool off too much overnight.

I"m also going to mount a fan up in the trusses. I'll wire it in to the plugs the lights are on. Lights off = fan off. Thanks to whomever I read that little tid bit from!

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions, etc?

 

[Ashful]

No advice on how to meausre your 18", but the requirement is to avoid having the stove burning gasoline fumes. This is a pole barn, which - depending on its use, may or may not be considered a "garage".

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum Mike.

Be sure and install it 18" from the lowest part of the stove. That being the pedestal or legs. Then you will be sure to pass code. Of course, there is nothing to keep you from exceeding code either. If code calls for 18", I'd probably go 20".

 

[Highbeam]

You mentioned WA rules so I assume you are in WA. I am too and am currently setting up my pole barn stove. Fire code prohibits a solid fuel burner in a garage. If your barn has a door which would allow you to drive a car into it then that barn is now a garage. Are you getting a permit? I just verified with my inspector that he would approve of a woodstove in my pole barn/garage so long as it is 18" from the floor. Don't know why he is willing to approve it but I am taking advantage of his lack of knowledge.

I fully intend to build the platform such that the top of the platform is 18" from the floor. Taller is better for several reasons and loading the stove is much easier.

I am not certain if I will need to put bollards around my stove or not. I'll actually call to make sure that I don't have to since that would look stupid.

Oh and the barn stove must be certified to get approval. My fisher that I picked up for the install is not certified so I plan to get another EPA stove at least temporarily. In my case I only plan to heat the barn occasionally for working out there but also if the temps get really low I want the heat to prevent freezing of chemicals and water lines.

When the inspector comes, you might want to relocate all your gas cans and small engines. Else he may realize that maybe the barn stove isn't a good idea.

 

[oldspark]

I know this has been beat to death but people use torches and welders and torpedo heaters in garages all the time, seems to me like they are a lot more unsafe that a enclosed fire in a wooodburner.

 

[eclecticcottage]

I know this has been beat to death but people use torches and welders and torpedo heaters in garages all the time, seems to me like they are a lot more unsafe that a enclosed fire in a wooodburner.

I *think* the premise behind it is that a torch or welder can be shut off, whereas a fire doesn't have a trigger (switch). Also, I imagine if one were to open the stove to reload, etc it would have a different effect on fumes than the sparks or concentrated flame of the torch. I don't know that there is a governing body that can regulate tools or portable heaters like the torpedo (I've also never actually looked to see if they are mentioned in code). Probably based on something some darwin winners managed to accomplish more than anything. JIMO though.

 

[Mike Cook]

You mentioned WA rules so I assume you are in WA. I am too and am currently setting up my pole barn stove. Fire code prohibits a solid fuel burner in a garage. If your barn has a door which would allow you to drive a car into it then that barn is now a garage. Are you getting a permit? I just verified with my inspector that he would approve of a woodstove in my pole barn/garage so long as it is 18" from the floor. Don't know why he is willing to approve it but I am taking advantage of his lack of knowledge.

Hi Highbeam!

I've read a number of your posts!

I'm thinking that the fire code's been changed. Spokane County wood stove installation guidelines specifically say that if the stove is to be installed in a garage it must be 18" off the floor. Funny thing is, I had the same .pdf downloaded on my desktop from a few weeks ago. Suddenly this morning when I checked the online version there's a new note in the document calling out the stove height when installed in a garage. If they're publishing it to the public, it must have changed.

I'm still debating the whole permit thing. I'm definitely doing it to code, but I'm waffling on the extra couple hundred bucks for the permit. This afternoon I'm going to stop by a stove shop and pick their brains a little. I'm not sure if I have the pole barn insured. I'll have to check that too. Obviously, insurance equals permits.

Be sure and install it 18" from the lowest part of the stove. That being the pedestal or legs. Then you will be sure to pass code. Of course, there is nothing to keep you from exceeding code either. If code calls for 18", I'd probably go 20"

Good point! Why didn't I think of that?

Do either of you have any thoughts or suggestions on the mass under / around the stove for efficiency? Bricks vs. Cinder Block, steel, etc.

 

[Highbeam]

Modern stoves really don't send much heat downwards, and any heat that does radiate from the underbelly of the stove will be caught by whatever lies beneath whether that be the slab or the hearth. So you don't lose that heat and efficiency will not be changed. I've been pondering this too and I am having a bit of hesitation in setting a 500 lb stove on top of a stack of cinderblocks. It would be bad if the thing tipped over. You would need to build it with mortar and oversize it a bit so the dang stove doesn't walk off the edge. Stoves tend to creep a bit anyways so make sure you keep an eye on the stove up on this platform.

A wooden platform is another possibility since many hearths have wooden structures. You would need to verify the hearth requirements for your stove of course but if your stove only requires ember protection then you could build a nice wooden platform and set tile or sheet metal on top.

The purpose is to elevate the fire. A guy could even weld on leg extensions which I have actually seen done in a home where the operator was in a wheelchair for better loading access.

I doubt the NFPA has changed to allow solid fuel heaters in garages. That is not likely at all. However, your local AHJ was nice enough to publish their rules which may be different. Your insurance company may still stick to the fire code. Get the permit if you are going to do it. My Pierce County permit cost 65$ for a woodstove/chimney installation.

 

[oldspark]

I was going to build a heavy steel frame as I have most of the materials on hand, that way I can put a lip on the platform and wont have to worry about it.

 

[Mike Cook]

A quick update...

I visited a stove store yesterday. I was looking for rough estimates to install the stove. The owner offered to have his installer come out to give me an estimate, but I told him I was afraid it would be a waste of his time if I did the install myself. His response: "At least let him give you a materials list. Maybe you'll buy the parts from me."

How could I argue with that? I'm assuming I'll hear from the installer today to schedule an appointment.

I was going to build a heavy steel frame as I have most of the materials on hand, that way I can put a lip on the platform and wont have to worry about it.

A wooden platform is another possibility

Both are good ideas. Yesterday I was looking at masonry building supplies when it occurred to me that I can build a platform out of steel studs, cover it with durarock (or whatever that cement board is called), and then use interlocking pavers as a hearth. Some type of angle iron or aluminum to keep them from moving and it would be quick and decent looking. Maybe finish it off with some kind of masonry around the sides.

I'm still thinking of the cinder block wall behind the stove, so the platform could anchor to that for stability.

Get the permit if you are going to do it.

Yeah, you're right. I was wrong about the costs. Looks like it's less than a hundred bucks here too. Another thought regarding the installer above was that he would know exactly what they want to pass inspection the first time.

When the inspector comes, you might want to relocate all your gas cans and small engines. Else he may realize that maybe the barn stove isn't a good idea

I actually just built myself a nice little garden shed / chicken coop for that very thing. If there's a fire, it's only going to be roast chickens!



The pic above is a little old. The roof is finished, and gas cans, small motors, etc. are being moved out of my shop. (Don't EVEN ask the questions my wife has been asking. "Why do you need another shed?" "What's wrong with the shed you have?" and "Why do you need TWO sheds?")

That's it for now. I'll keep you posted.

 

[John_M]

Mike, "...Obviously, insurance equals permits...." I am uncertain about the meaning of this statement. However, as highbeam and others have suggested, I would urge you to become familiar with the necessary insurance and codes requirements prior to starting the installation. Upon completion, spend the few dollars and sleep comfortably each night knowing your insurance company and Codes office approve your installation. Insurance companies and Municipal Codes officers look harshly upon undisclosed information.

Just my $.02 worth.

Best wishes and good luck

 

[jhoff310]

I know codes will vary from state to state. The heat shield answer is simple. A piece of sheet metal, as long as there is at minimum 1" of air flow behind the metal you are good to go. I confirmed this with my ins. agent and the local FD.

Jeff

 

[Mike Cook]

I am uncertain about the meaning of this statement.

I was trying to say that I know that if I want to have viable insurance, I'll need to have the stove inspected and permitted. So, your right. I totally agree. I was just having a moment or two of "cheapness". But thanks for the $.02!

I know codes will vary from state to state. The heat shield answer is simple. A piece of sheet metal, as long as there is at minimum 1" of air flow behind the metal you are good to go. I confirmed this with my ins. agent and the local FD.

I wasn't really thinking of simple heat shields. I was asking more for opinions on massive heat "reservoirs" that would continue to radiate heat after the stove had died down to keep the shop a little warmer for the next morning. I realize now that looking back at my original post I really didn't say this very well, sorry.

 

[Mike Cook]

Another Update......

Okay, I have to admit that one of the things I didn't think through was the cost of the chimney pipe, roof supports, etc. Holy chit! Looks like it'll end up being at least another $1000 to do this right. (Don't tell my wife......)

I decided to do an L shaped block wall as a heat shield / heat reservoir. The block will be filled with sand. Pic below is the beginning.


I held the blocks about 4 inches off the outside wall so I can get a shop vac back there to clean.

The stove will be about 3 inches off the right wing wall and centered on the middle block in the back wall. I'll post more pics as the project progresses.

(As a side note....YES, I temporarily ran stove pipe out the window with stone blocks to shield the window frame. Yes the stove is lit. I did this for two reasons. 1.) It was cold, and 2.) I really wanted to play with my stove. I'm sure you guys understand! )

More pics to follow.

 

[oldspark]

You are playing with fire ya know.

 

[Highbeam]

Any plans to elevate the stove 18" from the ground?

 

[Mike Cook]

Any plans to elevate the stove 18" from the ground?

Yes sir! The block will be tall enough to accommodate both the elevated "hearth" and the stove. Originally I planned on making the block wall 64" tall, but when I dry stacked the block I liked the look of having a staggered top so it'll probably end up being 72" tall at it's highest point. The stove is +/- 29" tall, the platform will be +/- 20", so the door of the stove should be right around 40" or so. I'll post some pics when it's further along if the design isn't clear.

I'm still kind of kicking around what to build the platform with. It'll probably be a wood platform with interlocking pavers on top.

And as we discussed above, I'm getting permits too. I'll go pull the permit once the block and platform are done and I'm ready to pony up the bucks for the chimney.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm jealous, I planned on using block as well since it is cheap and non-cobustible. You could add a couple of columns under the hearth directly beneath the stove. You could then locate a slab of granite, or pour a concrete slab like they do with countertops.

 

[nate379]

Just wondering what the blocks cost? I bought a few this summer and they were about 10$ each.

 

[Highbeam]

1.17$ each

(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100322580&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&cm_sp=BazVoice%2d%5f%2dRLP%2d%5f%2d100322580%2d%5f%2dx)

 

[nate379]

That link says not available here, but I checked Lowe's and they are $2.94 each. I bought my from the local hardware store, usually they are same or cheaper than Lowe's when I but on my account with them.

 

[Highbeam]

Thread mining... dug up this old one... How did it end up Mike?

 

[Mike Cook]

Hey Highbeam!

Funny you should post this, I've been thinking of this thread for a while.

Next Saturday we're completing the project. (Just bought the last parts yesterday!)

I'll post more pics then....I promise!

 

[Mike Cook]

Here's a couple of pics to bring things up to date.


I built the base out of 2X6's. The top is 2 1/2" pieces of plywood with an aluminum lip around the edge to hold the pavers. I routed a shallow recess for the aluminum so that it sat flush with the plywood top. (You can see the plumb bob hanging from the roof for the chimney layout and the stove up on blocks to be moved over to the platform. I slid the stove over on 2X6's layed flat.)

It's over built, but that's what I wanted.........



I had a few questions regarding the height of the block wall and permits. After a call to the inspector that covers my area, I finally finished the block wall. It's filled with a combination of leftover mortar and sand.




The stove is sitting on the 2X6's so I don't mark up the pavers while I'm moving it around. There is 2 - 45's sitting on top to the left of the stove pipe connector

The door is off to replace the gaskets (and it makes it a little lighter while I move it)

I'm working on the cathedral ceiling support box now but I don't have any pics. It's 13' from the support box to the top of the stove, so I'm doing everything from an extension ladder. On the higher side of the roof I have to use my pickup bed to elevate the extension ladder to where I need to be. It's safe, but it slows me down a lot.

I'll post some more pics soon.

 

[Mike Cook]

Hi Guys!

I'm planning on perforating the roof tomorrow morning. I'll try and photo as much as possible. Usually I get jammin' around and forget to take pics.

Tonight I took a bunch so you get a bit of a pic dump on a Friday night.....


I'm making a template for the roof cut.



The first half of the support box frame.



I cut the insulation to expose the sheet metal.....


...and fitted another cardboard template into the hole.

Back on the ground I cut the cathedral support box and attached the other half of the support box.







Then I dry fitted the box to see how it would fit.


More pics next post.....