Another large stove thread...Alderlea T6, Progress Hybrid, something else?

[JoeOxfordCT]

I am sort of building this off of two other threads; PE Summit vs. Alderlea T6 vs. Enerzone 3.4 vs. Jotul F600 FL vs. Jotul Carrabassett and a thread I started Last stove purchase in 2003, changes since then ?
We are just beginning to look in earnest now. Right now I really like the PE Alderlea T6 although I've yet to see one in person. Heading to a store tomorrow that carries PE, don't know what they'll have on the floor though. I have been reading the forum here and the only knock I have seen on the T6 is the ash pan ? My last stove was the Jotul F600 and I did like the ash pan setup. I did not realize that it is perhaps one of the better designs in the industry ??
That said I don't think I'd go with an all cast iron stove this time around. I really liked our F600 but during our last winter with it (2012) it developed a small air leak in the upper left side where the front panel is joined to the side panel. I could hear it whistling when the stove was banked down and our burn time decreased noticeably too. I had thought perhaps that this could be fixed by replacing a gasket or with sealant but when our chimney sweep cleaned the stove in the Spring he said that the fix would likely not be so easy or cheap. Long story short we ended up selling the house over the Summer. Now I see that there are stoves with steel fireboxes under the cast iron exteriors that would likely address the issue I had ?
However, looks like the T6 is top vent only ? We have a hearth right now with a coal burning stove which we plan to get rid of but it is rear vent straight into a 6" ceramic thimble which is only 27 1/4" to the top from the floor. the whole wall behind the hearth is brick. What are my options at this point if I wanted to get the T6 and/or what other stoves should I still be considering at this point ? I am just now starting to read about the Woodstock Progress Hybrid. It had a reversible flue (top/rear) and seems plenty efficient. Our current house is 2,200sqft, two stories. The hearth is centrally located in the kitchen/family room.

 

[begreen]

Your experience with the F600 is unusual. I am surprised this didn't get fixed as a warranty issue. As you were describing the situation the Progress Hybrid came to mind for me also. We like the T6 a lot, but it is definitely top vent only. To hook one up it sounds like you would need to raise the thimble higher. That low height thimble is always going to restrict choices.

 

[JoeOxfordCT]

I am reading more & more on the Woodstock Progress Hybrid. It sounds very interesting and with us being in CT. I could certainly hook up my trailer and pick it up from the factory in NH myself. In fact the scary part now becomes getting it into the house & onto the hearth. I have already read accounts of elaborate ramps & plywood and/or time spent removing parts to lighten up the stove to get it moved into place.

 

[begreen]

I moved our 600# T6 into the house in about 20 minutes by ratchet strapping it to our heavy duty Milwaukee dolly. Once it was on wheels it moved quickly and easily. I had 3 extra bodies on hand but we only had to muscle it to get up the entry step into the house.

 

[tfdchief]

I moved our 600# T6 into the house in about 20 minutes by ratchet strapping it to our heavy duty Milwaukee dolly. Once it was on wheels it moved quickly and easily. I had 3 extra bodies on hand but we only had to muscle it to get up the entry step into the house.

3 extra bodies.... I did the same when I moved in my 450# Hampton but they required beer too!

 

[weatherguy]

Could you rent one of those things the stove shops use? I'm thinking of getting the PH or the new IS next year and already thinking about that issue too. I suppose you could buy a couple cases of beer and invite a few friends over, just do the moving before they drink the beer.

 

[JoeOxfordCT]

@weatherguy, what thing are you talking about ? I can sorta see putting the stove on a dolly and using ramps, ropes, & folks to get it into the house but I am actually more interested in how you get it set on a hearth and off the dolly ? 4 or 5 big guys won't be an option for me. We moved last Summer and we're about an hour away from folks.

On another note, really starting to warm up to the Progress Hybrid stove, if for no other reason than with the rear flue option I can install the stove without having to make any modifications to the hearth. All the top venting stove are going to have me drilling/cutting another thimble into the brick wall behind the hearth. If I were to go that route however, what would my options be for patching/covering the old thimble ?

 

[dave_376]

I used an appliance dolly not a furniture. An appliance dolly is a strapped hand truck. I strapped the stove on and tilted it back, easier to get it up the stairs and into the house than a furniture dolly. It also makes it easier to set it on the hearth because you can tip it back and set one side on the hearth and then muscle it up on it. I basically did my insert by myself and it weighed ~500 lbs, i took out some firebricks and the door which removed a few lbs but I did it. I also helped a coworker move in their new Clydesdale which was easy peasy with 2 people, up a few steps and into the hearth with out breaking a sweat or a single cuss.

You have a few dealers close to Wolcott Deans and Superior are both in Southington, I have an Avalon and needed parts for it and Deans stocks almost every part which is a huge plus. I had a friend buy a PE Summit from superior and they got a fantastic price, haggled them way down.

 

[Woodstuck]

I moved my progress hybrid in with just some help from my gf onto a 14" hearth. Just take off all the easily removable pieces, door, cooktop, ashpan and grate. Most of them aren't on the stove anyway when shipped. I put the legs on and stuck large furniture moving pads under them and slid it in front of the hearth. Next we tilted it from one side to the other and stuck bricks and blocks under the feet until I had it slightly higher then the hearth. Put the movers back under the feet and push it into place. An alternative to movers would be 2 sheets of sturdy card board, in a pinch we have moved heavy stuff at work that way. Just saying with some creativity it can be done with little help. Also I moved into a neighborhood of all old school wood burners and after they have all seen the looks and minimal wood consumption of the PH quite a few of them want a Woodstock.

 

[weatherguy]

@weatherguy, what thing are you talking about ? I can sorta see putting the stove on a dolly and using ramps, ropes, & folks to get it into the house but I am actually more interested in how you get it set on a hearth and off the dolly ? 4 or 5 big guys won't be an option for me. We moved last Summer and we're about an hour away from folks.

On another note, really starting to warm up to the Progress Hybrid stove, if for no other reason than with the rear flue option I can install the stove without having to make any modifications to the hearth. All the top venting stove are going to have me drilling/cutting another thimble into the brick wall behind the hearth. If I were to go that route however, what would my options be for patching/covering the old thimble ?

I forget what it's called but its like an electric dolly made to move heavy stuff, BB or Begreen know the name, maybe if they see this they'll chime in.

 

[jeff_t]

@weatherguy, what thing are you talking about ? I can sorta see putting the stove on a dolly and using ramps, ropes, & folks to get it into the house but I am actually more interested in how you get it set on a hearth and off the dolly ? 4 or 5 big guys won't be an option for me. We moved last Summer and we're about an hour away from folks.

On another note, really starting to warm up to the Progress Hybrid stove, if for no other reason than with the rear flue option I can install the stove without having to make any modifications to the hearth. All the top venting stove are going to have me drilling/cutting another thimble into the brick wall behind the hearth. If I were to go that route however, what would my options be for patching/covering the old thimble ?

What weatherguy is talking about is something like this
http://www.escalera.com/ Would be pretty slick if you have stairs to worry about.

If you can get it in front of the hearth, cribbing it up an inch or two at a time works well. Get it high enough, then work it into postion on strips of plywood. Those plastic furniture moving thingys work well, too. I have never used them for a stove, but I did move some big pieces of furniture alone. Not sure how they would do with a 700 lb stove, but I would try.

 

[JoeOxfordCT]

@dave_376 - Yeah we went to Dean's yesterday. First time I was ever there. They showed us the Lopi Cape Cod as their recommendation for a large stove. I think they said $4000 in matte black, $4400 in brown enamel. I have to admit I had a little sticker shock...ok, a lot of sticker shock. I had been prepared for $2500-3000...and on top of that the Cape Cod is top vent only. I have bought multiple stoves from Superior but nothing since the Jotul F600 in 2003. I know they carry Pacific Energy and had planned to look at the Alderlea T6 and/or Summit but they too are also top vent. What kind of price did your friend get ? PM me if you don't want to post publicly. If I drive to Woodstock Soapstone to get a Progress Hybrid I will avoid CT sales tax of $210. I have not contacted them yet but based on what I have been able to google, it looks like $3200 for the stove + $200 for the ash pan. So with no tax we're talking about $3400 with me picking it up. I am definitely going to stop by Superior since they're close by (I'm in Wolcott) but I would have to either find another efficient rear vent stove from them or get a price so low that it would make up for the cost of cutting in a higher thimble to use a top vent stove.

 

[begreen]

If you want a solid, rear-vented, 3 cu ft cast iron stove with a good long track record take a look at the Quadrafire Isle Royale.

No, strike that, won't work. The low thimble height is effectively reducing your choice down to one stove. Personally I would consider biting the bullet and raising the thimble to a normal 48-60" height to open up options for now and in the future.

Is there any possibility of lowering the hearth or is it at floor level? Can you post a picture of the current setup?

 

[dave_376]

Is there any possibility of lowering the hearth or is it at floor level? Can you post a picture of the current setup?

If you have a raised hearth you can place the stove infront of it or remove the hearth and make a new lower one. I may do this myself if I ever swap insert for stove.

 

[JoeOxfordCT]

Here is my current setup. A TempCoal stove set on a raised hearth. The hearth wall is 53" across. It is also 53" to the bottom of the bluestone mantle. It's 24" to the center of the existing 6" thimble or 27 1/4" to the top of the thimble.

 

[begreen]

That low thimble is killing your options. It looks like you could gain about 5-6" height by removing the hearth and putting one in at floor level. That would help. One stove you might consider then is the Jotul F50 or F55. This is a cast iron jacketed steel stove, just like the Alderlea, but it can be rear vented.

 

[madison]

Couple observations and opinions.
1. The existing ceramic 6 " flue is one of many limiting factors, in the exhaust issues.
2. Looking at the pictures, a large stove in a low ceiling room, if that room is not huge, and open , prepare to take off some clothing. Or share the rest of your floor plan. If this is a typical North East old school home with smaller walled rooms, a T6 in a small family room with low ceilings is gonna be very warm.
3. The existing hearth looks a bit small especially with hardwood floors butting up to the brick.

If it were me, I would take a deep breath, consider how long am I going to be living in this place, and consider modifications needed for the chimney and hearth before shelling out for any stove, which may not work or fit well with the currently existing chimney system and hearth. Watch your heating bill, look at your furnace BTU rating etc to get a feel of your homes need for heating BTU's.

"Measure 10 times and cut once" (replace cut with spend)

 

[weatherguy]

Have you an idea on how much it would cost to raise the thimble? I wouldn't think it would be too costly but I'm just guessing.

 

[scooby074]

Hi Joe.
If you made it to the end of my rambling comparo thread you linked to in your first post, PE Summit vs. Alderlea T6 vs...
you'd see I eventually went with the T6.

Let me just say its a great stove. Throws a TON of heat. It has raised the average temperatures in my house from about 19*C to 24*C. Thats significant. The house is much more comfortable overall, even more than the temperature increase would indicate. Its a great radiator.

Burns the ash up nice and fine and relights easy. Id have no qualms about recommending this stove.

Some things you should know. Firstly, the newest stoves have dropped the nice metalwork on the door over the window and now feature a plain window. That metalwork is a very nice appearance and Id be thoroughly disappointed if my stove didnt come with it.

Secondly. If you want the current iteration of the EBT, you need to make sure you get a stove made within say the last year. My stove, while brand new in the crate, was 3 years old which means it had the older EBT, however as a benefit it also has the old, and better looking glass. I dont know if Id trade the new EBT for the better looking glass. THe stove works fine.

Third.. The ash tray sucks! Its basically unusable as an ash tray. About the only saving grace for it is the neat little port on the ash lip which allows you to push any ash that falls out when you open the door into the ash tray. Using the ash tray for full cleanouts is pointless

No matter what you choose, I think you need to lift up that stove pipe. It'll cost a bit, but give you much more flexability.

 

[JoeOxfordCT]

Here are a couple more pics. I added text & arrows to the pics but now I see it came our very small. If you open the pic in a new window it's easier to read. It is 18' from the TV wall to the stove and 28' from the opposite wall to the stove.We just bought this house in July. My original intent was to immediately replace the coal stove with wood but the previous owner convinced me to give coal a shot. Our experience has been mixed at best.
Our layout is fairly open but somewhat narrow. Our ceilings are standard 8'. We spend the bulk of our time in the space in the two pics which is basically the back half of the first floor. Heat does have two doorways to travel around and up the stairs to the 2nd floor which has 4 small BRs & 2 BA. (approx. 1000sqft) Our only other source of heat is electric baseboard. Our electric bills have climbed from $140 October, $269 November, $320 December. Our old house was about the same size with electric heat as well and with the Jotul F600 we never had to run the electric heat. Our temps averaged 66-72. As I sit and write this it's 64 here in the kitchen.
My intent here was to find another large wood stove and just swap and keep moving. I had had a Dutchwest stove years ago and went through the hassle of replacing catalytic converters every couple years. Up until my old non-cat F600 developed an air leak I was quite happy and would have been fine buying another. Late yesterday I got a quote from Superior for a Jotul F500 Oslo, w/short leg kit, rear heat shield, delivered & set on my hearth for $2750 plus tax. They would do the hookup for another $300. I plan to swing by their showroom later today. I had been pretty hot on the Progress Hybrid but am not sure what to make of some folks having to disassemble & clean the cat converter on a monthly basis ?? Been reading some on their Steel Hybrid too. Somebody mentioned the stove being available for sale around June this year ?

 

[begreen]

If you use the more options button when posting pictures you'll see the thumbnails option to post pictures. I just did this to your last post. To see the pic larger in the post, click on the thumbnail image.

I think you would be ok with the T6, it convects nicely. I would not cut a vent right above the stove. Instead I think a small table fan blowing cooler air at floor level, from the front room into the stove room will suffice to get a good convection loop going.

 

[KB007]

There's a bunch of code rules wrt to cutting openings for registers between floor. Do a quick search and you'll find a bunch of info. Basically code around here says for a drywall ceiling between floors it has to be at least 6 ft away from the stove and must be an enclosed fully metal duct. In some areas they go one step further and require a fusible link to shut the opening in the event of a problem. Not a major thing to do, just check your codes for accurate requirements.

With a big stove on that hearth, is it high enough to not require a hearth pad or deep enough to comply?

I'd be inclined to say get the stove you want, then figure out how to get the pipe into your chimney, in the long run, a few bucks worth of masonry work shouldn't stop you from being happy.

 

[madison]

Thanks for the pics, the room is bigger than I imagined using the initial pictures that you posted. Agree with Begreen. I would still be researching the connection and using the 6" ceramic existing chimney. I am ignorant on the affects of burning coal - and then switching to wood - in a chimney system.

 

[begreen]

Agreed. No need to rush. Explore all three installation options:
1. Progress Hybrid, extend hearth to meet front clearance requirement
2. Raise the thimble to 48-60" height and go with top vent stove of choice. Extend the hearth to meet front clearance requirement
3. Remove the current hearth, thus lowering it to floor level. Then allow for the height of new hearth (say 1") and choose a rear-vent stove that aligns with the current thimble. Build new hearth.

 

[mainewoodburning]

I have the F50 Jotul. I use it to heat about 3000 sq ft. Its cool on the main floor(stove is in finished basement) when its really cold. But in your setup if would keep up very warm.