Advice/tips on chain sharpening needed

[LLigetfa]

Forget the file guide gizmos... freehand it. Also, watch that 10 degree angle. Chances are the chain is canting over in the groove so if you're 10 degrees to the bar, you are way off. Try holding the file parallel to the top of the cutter, not relative to the bar.

What 10 degree angle are you refering to?

The OP mentioned the 10 degree angle in the first post. If the bar were plumb, the file would be 10 degrees off from level, so 80 or 100 degrees to the bar depending which side you're measuring.

...and I put about a 10 degree angle downward (this I gleaned from the manual that came with the saw...

A chain can slop 10 degrees side to side in a worn bar so the 10 degrees could end up being 20 degrees depending which direction you push the file.

 

[smokinj]

Forget the file guide gizmos... freehand it. Also, watch that 10 degree angle. Chances are the chain is canting over in the groove so if you're 10 degrees to the bar, you are way off. Try holding the file parallel to the top of the cutter, not relative to the bar.

What 10 degree angle are you refering to?

The OP mentioned the 10 degree angle in the first post. If the bar were plumb, the file would be 10 degrees off from level, so 80 or 100 degrees to the bar depending which side you're measuring.

...and I put about a 10 degree angle downward (this I gleaned from the manual that came with the saw...

A chain can slop 10 degrees side to side in a worn bar so the 10 degrees could end up being 20 degrees depending which direction you push the file.

LOL your all over the place thats how chains get so screwed up in the first place!

 

[oldspark]

How many brands of chains call for the 10 degree angle? I had an old stihl chain that called for it but all of my newer stuff does not.

 

[smokinj]

How many brands of chains call for the 10 degree angle? I had an old stihl chain that called for it but all of my newer stuff does not.

hes talking about putting a slight 10 degree down tilt on the file on your stroke. Ripping chains use a 10 degree cutter angle.

 

[smokinj]

How many brands of chains call for the 10 degree angle? I had an old stihl chain that called for it but all of my newer stuff does not.

there is 2 angles on a cutter all can be done in one stroke.

 

[DiscoInferno]

All of the Oregon chain I've used (LG, LGX, V) and the Woodland Pro 30RC call for the 10 degree downward angle from the bar. I find keeping that particular angle correct to be the hardest part of hand sharpening, and I'm sure after a while I'm way off. Plus my el-cheapo HF grinder doesn't even have an adjustment for that angle, so presumably it's set to 0. But my hand filing has gotten a lot better with practice, and I don't use the grinder much now.

 

[smokinj]

All of the Oregon chain I've used (LG, LGX, V) and the Woodland Pro 30RC call for the 10 degree downward angle from the bar. I find keeping that particular angle correct to be the hardest part of hand sharpening, and I'm sure after a while I'm way off. Plus my el-cheapo HF grinder doesn't even have an adjustment for that angle, so presumably it's set to 0. But my hand filing has gotten a lot better with practice, and I don't use the grinder much now.

on the grinder you have 30/60 degree angles and the down ward 10 degree will be on the how deep you cut it.

 

[DiscoInferno]

Don't higher-end grinders have an adjustment for the tangent angle of the disk right where it contacts the tooth, perhaps by tilting the vice? I assumed they did but have never used anything but the HF one, which only lets you directly set the main (top plate?) angle directly. (The one that's 25-35 degrees.) There is a depth adjustment, but just cutting more or less deep doesn't seem the same as changing that third angle. But I have no idea why that 10 degrees is important anyway.

 

[smokinj]

Don't higher-end grinders have an adjustment for the tangent angle of the disk right where it contacts the tooth, perhaps by tilting the vice? I assumed they did but have never used anything but the HF one, which only lets you directly set the main (top plate?) angle directly. (The one that's 25-35 degrees.) There is a depth adjustment, but just cutting more or less deep doesn't seem the same as changing that third angle. But I have no idea why that 10 degrees is important anyway.

no you have 2 stops and two angles compound and the 3 rd is depth using the compound angle with depth to achieve the results
there is also a new jig to do square chains with one stroke in the same manor. (also compound angles on the file)

 

[webie]

As I can remember many moons ago I would have to dig out some of my old oregon books but it was one of the chisel chains either full or semi not sure but one was sharpened at a 30 dgree angle , and then they had an inclusion that if you cut softer woods that you could sharpen at a 35 degree angle and a 10 degree tilt I know now all my stihl chains are all done flat .

 

[smokinj]

As I can remember many moons ago I would have to dig out some of my old oregon books but it was one of the chisel chains either full or semi not sure but one was sharpened at a 30 dgree angle , and then they had an inclusion that if you cut softer woods that you could sharpen at a 35 degree angle and a 10 degree tilt I know now all my stihl chains are all done flat .

I use 30 for all put ripping. 60 on the tilt on a machine anyways.

 

[DiscoInferno]

The oregon chain I've got is 25/60/10 and Woodland pro is 30/60/10, I think.

 

[smokinj]

The oregon chain I've got is 25/60/10 and Woodland pro is 30/60/10, I think.

woodland pro full chisel is 35 I still cut it at 30 the same as stihl rs cant really say if there is any deference because I cant tell.

 

[firefighterjake]

Started out filing by hand . . . didn't do so well.

Bought a File N' Joint and got some advice from a veteran . . . I still have the File N' Joint, but have found that it works well one way, not so great the other . . . most likely due to operator error . . . the good news though is between the good advice and just getting used to the right angle of the dangle with the FNJ it seems as though my hand filing has improved.

 

[oldspark]

I am still a little confused over the 10 degree angle that was talked about in a couple of posts, with my sharpener I can set for the 10 degree angle in relation to the bar but it sounds like you are talking about something else.

 

[smokinj]

I am still a little confused over the 10 degree angle that was talked about in a couple of posts, with my sharpener I can set for the 10 degree angle in relation to the bar but it sounds like you are talking about something else.

It is a little confusing are you using a file or grinder?

 

[oldspark]

I am still a little confused over the 10 degree angle that was talked about in a couple of posts, with my sharpener I can set for the 10 degree angle in relation to the bar but it sounds like you are talking about something else.

It is a little confusing are you using a file or grinder?

Granberg (sp?) type dealy bob.

 

[smokinj]

I am still a little confused over the 10 degree angle that was talked about in a couple of posts, with my sharpener I can set for the 10 degree angle in relation to the bar but it sounds like you are talking about something else.

It is a little confusing are you using a file or grinder?

Granberg (sp?) type dealy bob.

is that a jig or grinder?

 

[oldspark]

I am still a little confused over the 10 degree angle that was talked about in a couple of posts, with my sharpener I can set for the 10 degree angle in relation to the bar but it sounds like you are talking about something else.

It is a little confusing are you using a file or grinder?

Granberg (sp?) type dealy bob.

is that a jig or grinder?

Sorry, it is the clamp on device (Stihl makes one) that uses a file.

 

[smokinj]

I am still a little confused over the 10 degree angle that was talked about in a couple of posts, with my sharpener I can set for the 10 degree angle in relation to the bar but it sounds like you are talking about something else.

It is a little confusing are you using a file or grinder?

Granberg (sp?) type dealy bob.

is that a jig or grinder?

Sorry, it is the clamp on device (Stihl makes one) that uses a file.

ok it should have a 10 degree slope going down when pushing the file in to the cutter and with a grinder you are coming in from the back side and is achive by the 60 degree tilt.

 

[DiscoInferno]

Here's the standard chart from Oregon boxes showing the three angles.

 

[oldspark]

None of the chains I use now call for the 10 degrees so I need not to worry about it correct?

 

[Socratic Monologue]

One of the things I like about the folks on this forum is that when asked what time it is, you all give enough information on the subject to build a clock. Lots of good stuff here.

That Oregon chart is pretty interesting. Especially the part where it distinguishes between holding the file perpendicular to the bar (which it calls 90 degrees) and holding the file at a slight upward angle (which it calls 10 degrees). What is fully about this is that if perpendicular is 90 degrees, then this measurement is given with reference to the plane that the bar itself sits on; but the 10 degree measurement is given with reference not to the plane the bar sits on, but rather to the plane perpendicular to the bar. In other words, if 90 degrees is perpendicular, then a slight upward angle from that is 100 degrees, not 10.

Geometric nitpicking aside, can anyone comment on the purpose of the difference in cutter angle (25-35 degrees) between safety chain and full chisel? What I'm curious about is how that angle affects the cutting performance of the chain -- for example, what performance difference would occur if a full chisel chain were filed to 35 degrees instead of 25? And why is it such a bad thing (I've been told this by the dealer who tries to convince me that his grinding services are indispensable in my life) if the cutter angles vary from cutter to cutter?

 

[LLigetfa]

holding the file at a slight upward angle (which it calls 10 degrees)...

Upward, downward... which is it? The OP said downward. Downward relative to what? What direction is the file being pushed? How much does the chain cant over in the groove?

I have always held the file perpendicular to the vertical axis of the chain regardless of what angle the bar might be at. I don't go for that 10 degree stuff. I always file forward, not backwards.

 

[smokinj]

holding the file at a slight upward angle (which it calls 10 degrees)...

Upward, downward... which is it? The OP said downward. Downward relative to what? What direction is the file being pushed? How much does the chain cant over in the groove?

I have always held the file perpendicular to the vertical axis of the chain regardless of what angle the bar might be at. I don't go for that 10 degree stuff. I always file forward, not backwards.

yep its a push I dont really worry to much on the 10 degree thing just push it in at 30 degrees and it seems to work it self out...with that said I normally grind so there trued up often and with milling in site there will be a lot more hand filling involed and the cutters need to be next to perfect see how that works out?