Absolute Steel Hybrid

[Flamestead]

When we first got this stove I thought the andirons were a bit short. As we've burned it more, I've realized that it hasn't been a problem (the wood is longer then the window is wide, and we don't get wood against the glass). In the meantime, Woodstock made up some taller andirons for us to try - these are about 1" taller and a little wider. They simply drop into a pocket, so easy to remove for cleaning the glass (which PH owners will appreciate). Yes, the glass does need cleaning...

 

[LDay]

I asked about that very thing... They can't for confidentiality, but they suggested getting in touch on an online forum.

Hi Freeburn,
Lorin from Woodstock here. While we can't simply give out customer names and numbers, throughout the years we've contacted our stove owners to ask if they are willing to be a reference or to show off their stove to prospective customers. The process can take time and there isn't always an owner in your immediate area with the particular stove you are interested in, but we can certainly try for you. Please feel free to call back and Ron, Mike or Penny will be able to get the process started.
I apologize for the bad information the first time around!

Lorin Day
Woodstock Soapstone Co.

 

[LocustBurner]

Welcome Lorin!

 

[Woody Stover]

Lorin from Woodstock here.

Hi, Lorin. Say, did you get your hair cut?

 

[freeburn]

Hi Freeburn,
Lorin from Woodstock here. While we can't simply give out customer names and numbers, throughout the years we've contacted our stove owners to ask if they are willing to be a reference or to show off their stove to prospective customers. The process can take time and there isn't always an owner in your immediate area with the particular stove you are interested in, but we can certainly try for you. Please feel free to call back and Ron, Mike or Penny will be able to get the process started.
I apologize for the bad information the first time around!

Lorin Day
Woodstock Soapstone Co.

Thanks for the response and welcome to the forum. No worries. My stove is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, so I'll see it in person anyway!

 

[LDay]

Hi, Lorin. Say, did you get your hair cut?

Do you not like my pixie cut silhouette?

 

[LDay]

Thanks for the response and welcome to the forum. No worries. My stove is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, so I'll see it in person anyway!

Oh, well that works too! Don't hesitate to contact us with questions.

 

[Woody Stover]

Do you not like my pixie cut silhouette?

As long as you keep sending me free stuff, I'll say your hair looks great no matter what you decide to do with it.

 

[JA600L]

Oh, well that works too! Don't hesitate to contact us with questions.

Hi Lorin,
Has Woodstock experimented much with bimetallic controls on the primary air? A lot of people would like to burn these stoves very low but need something to open the air up and burn the coals at the end. Is there any design feature that can be added to accomplish that?

 

[Tavery]

Hi Lorin,
Has Woodstock experimented much with bimetallic controls on the primary air? A lot of people would like to burn these stoves very low but need something to open the air up and burn the coals at the end. Is there any design feature that can be added to accomplish that?

Very interesting idea JA600L, I think that, (without knowing for sure this is what you mean) that this ability is what makes the BKs perform on lower settings and still burn cleanly and completely? looking forward to Lorin's feedback on this one.
Of course the pricing of the AS at $850 less than the Ashford might keep them from adding features and parts. If it's really about price points and such. However if it's about performance and efficiency as well (which I think it definitely is).....what would it take and would it work, the way this stove is designed with its singular manual air control?

 

[LDay]

Hi Lorin,
Has Woodstock experimented much with bimetallic controls on the primary air? A lot of people would like to burn these stoves very low but need something to open the air up and burn the coals at the end. Is there any design feature that can be added to accomplish that?

Hi JA600L-

I'll have to kick this into Tom's court for a more thorough answer since he spends a significant amount of time in our test lab, and he'll have his reasoning for continuing to utilize manual draft over a bimetal draft control.

The Ideal Steel air damper design has both the primary and secondary air openings specifically calibrated on one damper plate in order to run the stove with a single air control lever, keeping the operation simple while maintaining the proper air flow ratio for low emissions. Once a stove is EPA tested we cannot change the air configuration, including the addition of any bimetal damper system that obstructs the openings (as shown in your pictures).

Ken, our engineer, mentioned you can get some pretty rugged bimetal products (we get our bimetal from Crest Manufacturing) that would be capable of moving the air control lever on the Ideal Steel to open up as you reach the coaling phase of the burn. This should perform the task you are looking for without modifying the air flow through the primary and secondary openings.

The design intent for the Ideal Steel Hybrid was to produce a high-efficiency, low emissions stove, that is easy to operate, with options that are most other stoves don't offer, at a price point that is considered affordable to most. This was a tall order and understandably there will always be functions that we haven't built into a stove design that some users would find desirable.

The current method of burning down the coal bed with the Ideal Steel is to simply open the air control up and allow it to burn down (which I'm sure you already know). In the lab we often throw a few pieces of kindling on the coal bed and allow it to burn down. If you've built up a significant coal bed this can take a couple hours.

Tom is out this afternoon- but I'll post his response once he's back. Sorry I couldn't shed more light on this now.

Lorin

 

[freeburn]

Ken, our engineer, mentioned you can get some pretty rugged bimetal products (we get our bimetal from Crest Manufacturing) that would be capable of moving the air control lever on the Ideal Steel to open up as you reach the coaling phase of the burn. This should perform the task you are looking for without modifying the air flow through the primary and secondary openings.

This would be great info to get!

 

[Woody Stover]

A lot of people would like to burn these stoves very low but need something to open the air up and burn the coals at the end.

The Keystone comes with a small hole in the back of the ash pan housing that feeds a little air to the coals in the back, and it burns them down a bit better without re-adjusting the air. I know that at least one guy has drilled a hole in the IS ash pan, with a cover he can open and close. But as Lorin said, then you are messing with emissions and without sophisticated test equipment, have no way of telling what the effects on emissions might be when altering a stove after the fact. I find that having a nice grated ash system allows me to pull the coals up, with the ash falling away into the pan and with more air able to get to the coals, they burn down quicker than they would otherwise.

 

[JA600L]

Hi JA600L-

I'll have to kick this into Tom's court for a more thorough answer since he spends a significant amount of time in our test lab, and he'll have his reasoning for continuing to utilize manual draft over a bimetal draft control.

The Ideal Steel air damper design has both the primary and secondary air openings specifically calibrated on one damper plate in order to run the stove with a single air control lever, keeping the operation simple while maintaining the proper air flow ratio for low emissions. Once a stove is EPA tested we cannot change the air configuration, including the addition of any bimetal damper system that obstructs the openings (as shown in your pictures).

Ken, our engineer, mentioned you can get some pretty rugged bimetal products (we get our bimetal from Crest Manufacturing) that would be capable of moving the air control lever on the Ideal Steel to open up as you reach the coaling phase of the burn. This should perform the task you are looking for without modifying the air flow through the primary and secondary openings.

The design intent for the Ideal Steel Hybrid was to produce a high-efficiency, low emissions stove, that is easy to operate, with options that are most other stoves don't offer, at a price point that is considered affordable to most. This was a tall order and understandably there will always be functions that we haven't built into a stove design that some users would find desirable.

The current method of burning down the coal bed with the Ideal Steel is to simply open the air control up and allow it to burn down (which I'm sure you already know). In the lab we often throw a few pieces of kindling on the coal bed and allow it to burn down. If you've built up a significant coal bed this can take a couple hours.

Tom is out this afternoon- but I'll post his response once he's back. Sorry I couldn't shed more light on this now.

Lorin

I'm not trying to tell you how to build your stove's by any means. I think it is safe to say from what I've seen on here and other sites, that an automatic air control would attract some serious attention. If you are interested in doubling your sales .

 

[LDay]

The Keystone comes with a small hole in the back of the ash pan housing that feeds a little air to the coals in the back, and it burns them down a bit better without re-adjusting the air. I know that at least one guy has drilled a hole in the IS ash pan, with a cover he can open and close. But as Lorin said, then you are messing with emissions and without sophisticated test equipment, have no way of telling what the effects on emissions might be when altering a stove after the fact. I find that having a nice grated ash system allows me to pull the coals up, with the ash falling away into the pan and with more air able to get to the coals, they burn down quicker than they would otherwise.

Similar to the Keystone, the Ideal Steel has two auxiliary air holes to feed the coal bed a small amount of oxygen. The primary function is to help prevent back-puffing at low burn rates, but it does pump a small amount of air directly to the coal bed. The single port is seen when the loading door is open, the air enters the firebox below the andirons to the right and left of the door opening.

 

[LDay]

I'm not trying to tell you how to build your stove's by any means. I think it is safe to say from what I've seen on here and other sites, that an automatic air control would attract some serious attention. If you are interested in doubling your sales .

Feedback and suggestions have always been important to us, and our stove owners have been the primary catalyst behind improvements to existing stoves and implementation of designs/functions to new stoves.
Double ...really!

 

[Woody Stover]

our stove owners have been the primary CATALYST

Oooo, good one!

 

[Flamestead]

My wife was lukewarm about the original artwork, so Lorin asked for it back and gave it a paint job. This version is getting high wife-approval ratings.

Also, as one who generally reports lower burn times due to our need for heat, I should note that this fire was restarted from coals 20hrs after the last reload, and the draft was left wide open the last 8 hours of that time. I personally would not call this a 20hr burn, but she will go the distance even while trying to get rid of the coals (we replaced the glass frame with a different style, so needed it cooled down).

I also checked the cat, and did not bother to clean it. On this same setup with the PH or IS I would have needed to vacuum it by now (close to half a cord). I think having the key damper installed (and fully closed!) is making a big difference.

Here's a pic from tonight with the draft fully closed both on the key damper in the flue and on the stove's air control. A "normal" draft is 0.05 to 0.07 (tonight's specifics for this pic are 2 F outside and no wind, 440 degree stove-top.)

 

[weatherguy]

Flame, do you have a flexible liner for your set up?

 

[Flamestead]

Flame, do you have a flexible liner for your set up?

Yes,6", internal chimney, about 32', insulation wrapped around the liner. We sit out in the open (not much for trees or hills to affect the draft).

 

[weatherguy]

Where did you put the damper? I could use one but wasn't sure if I could with a flexible liner, I guess I could put it near the top of the tee.

 

[Flamestead]

Where did you put the damper? I could use one but wasn't sure if I could with a flexible liner, I guess I could put it near the top of the tee.

It is in the horizontal part of the tee. (the rubber hose is for the draft meter, the handle for the key damper is just to the right of the rubber hose)

 

[Flamestead]

Intentionally burning some 10mo CSS Sugar Maple just to see how cleanly it burns. It is slow to take off, but is burning better than I expected (no MM readings, yet). Not liking what it does to the glass. This is at startup, with the air wide-open.


At least it burns off nicely...

With one cord burned so far, we are very happy with the stove.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Hi JA600L-

I'll have to kick this into Tom's court for a more thorough answer since he spends a significant amount of time in our test lab, and he'll have his reasoning for continuing to utilize manual draft over a bimetal draft control.

Hi Lorin, if still reading this I'd add a +1 to JA's bimetallic air control suggestion. So far this stove has really done well and I am amazed at the difference in performance between this and my Jotul which is fairly new and more efficient than my old smoke dragon. Blown away is more like it. If there was one thing I'd pick to improve upon, it'd be to add a thermostatic control (I do think the air plates on it now are genius though!). I get plenty long burn times, I and others have really blown that 14 hr rating out of the water (why is it rated so low, when many of us get near or more than 24 hours in milder weather when we can run it low and slow?). My issue is that sometimes I come home after a work shift (14 hours or so) and find I have too much wood left in the box, and a cool house, despite leaving with the stove very hot. Perhaps most wood burners have someone else at home to turn it up later in the cycle, or shorter work days, so I admit my situation is probably not the usual. I'm hunting for a second stove right now (to replace the pellet stove with wood also) so I am watching these Absolute Steel Hybrid threads with great interest, but the thermostat on the BK is very tempting.

 

[drz1050]

I believe the stove ratings come from an EPA- specified load of Douglas fir, which would explain the burn times.. I could very well be wrong, and will defer to Lorin's knowledge.