8 inch pipe and chimney installation for basement stove

[bholler]

The fit, finish, and quality of their products have been outstanding.

You havnt worked with enough products their fit and finish in my experince is pretty poor on most of their product lines. I am not saying it is bad stuff it works just fine but there is stuff out there that is much easier to work with

I like that they label all of their parts, including the addition of a chimney direction arrow:

They all do it is required by the ul listing

I plan to drywall the inside of the chase or possibly Durock or similar.

That is totally un necessary and a real pita.


It is a very nice install though and it seems like you really paid allot of attention to detail good job.

 

[ponderosa77]

You havnt worked with enough products their fit and finish in my experince is pretty poor on most of their product lines. I am not saying it is bad stuff it works just fine but there is stuff out there that is much easier to work with


They all do it is required by the ul listing


That is totally un necessary and a real pita.


It is a very nice install though and it seems like you really paid allot of attention to detail good job.

You are right that I haven't worked with enough other products. Pretty sure the Excel chimney would be real nice also. I did look at the DuraPlus stuff at HomeDepot as well. Regardless, not having to crimp anything was great.

You are right about the Durock stuff. I was looking at the cement board stuff and it looks like it's harder to work with, harder to cut, etc. Fire rated 5/8 inch sheetrock on the inside and outside of a 2x4 wall supposedly provides a 1hr fire rating and that would be good.

On another note, due to the bad weather, the flashing install is not perfect. The silicone isn't curing very good for one thing (I'm just going to have to get on the roof again in warmer weather to really seal it up). We had about an hour of decent 38f weather yesterday and used good silicone but it would be much better if I had several hours of even 40f+ weather instead....

Thank you for all of your help.

 

[bholler]

You are right about the Durock stuff. I was looking at the cement board stuff and it looks like it's harder to work with, harder to cut, etc. Fire rated 5/8 inch sheetrock on the inside and outside of a 2x4 wall supposedly provides a 1hr fire rating and that would be good.

I am saying don't bother putting anything on the inside it is a waste of time money and energy you don't need it at all.

You are right that I haven't worked with enough other products. Pretty sure the Excel chimney would be real nice also. I did look at the DuraPlus stuff at HomeDepot as well. Regardless, not having to crimp anything was great.

Excell and ventis stuff are way nicer to work with i find the selkirk stuff a real pain to use. and even with the lock bands thay dont lock as secure as the better pipe. But like i said it is not bad i just will never choose to work with it

 

[ponderosa77]

Well, normally my basement is less than 60f. On the north side, it's more like 57f this time of year.

Right now it's over 75f so the stove and chimney are doing the job. I've been experimenting with things for the last 4 hours. Right now the stove is idling at 500f on some cedar splits and the flue thermometer is reading around 300f. I also ran the stove to about 650 earlier.

The chimney does get hot to the touch. Right now when it is running at around 300 or so, it is hot but I can put my hand on it. When I ran the stove up to 650, the flue was obviously much hotter (probably 450 or so) and was too hot to touch and would burn a hand. I think insulating the chase walls won't therefore be necessary and may even cause excessive internal heat. I was worried about the wall bands getting too hot as well but they aren't really transferring any significant heat back to the wall studs, which is great.

The 23ft flue is drafting well. Cedar wood is a little hard to start but even with the doors open, I haven't set off the smoke alarm 10ft away. I'm not sure if I'll add the other 3ft section or not. One thing is for sure, the draft is good enough that it revealed a possible problem with the front doors: with the draft caps fully closed, it sounds like the stove will draw a little air between the doors. Not sure what can or should be done about that. Maybe I just need to install the damper on the outlet to help with that issue.

The thermometers I got are also useful - I can glance from across the room at the colors and make adjustments.

 

[begreen]

Put a 4" x 10" grille at the top and bottom of the chase to ventilate out the heat and add a little room heat too. A damper on the stove pipe is a common remedy on old stoves. It will slow down the flue gases a bit, keeping the flue a bit cooler and the stove a bit hotter. Don't forget to open the damper before opening the stove doors or you may get a snoot full of smoke.

 

[coaly]

With double wall pipe and inside chimney you probably have way too much draft. Yes, a damper is needed. Close it to keep the flue temp down when burning harder. Or better yet, Baffle it too. With 8 feet or so of single wall pipe it cools enough not to need the damper as much. In your case what comes out of the stove is waste and you want to control that.
When you start it and hear a roar up the stack, close damper until sound stops. That's a good indication where it should be set. With baffle you can run it with damper farther open.

 

[coaly]

One thing is for sure, the draft is good enough that it revealed a possible problem with the front doors: with the draft caps fully closed, it sounds like the stove will draw a little air between the doors.

With proper draft, it is probably normal. I'm sure your draft is off the chart.
When you stop dumping all the heat outside, your basement will warm up.

 

[ponderosa77]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I originally planned to use a damper for safety and it has been on order since before the holidays but I believe it will finally arrive next week. I should be able to fit it in between the stove adapter and reducer. Doing so will nicely bump the stove clearance to 36 inches from the back wall as planned.

I thought the reducer and 90 degree tee would impede flow enough to not need a damper but as coaly says, I think the draft is strong. I think this points to a good, safe installation and I'd much rather start with too much draft than too little.

It's easy to hear the draft but I can also watch it when I open the door. It's strange to see such a big firebox with no baffle. I don't want to neuter the stove capability too much but the baffle idea is on the radar.

With the setup the way it is now, the stove seems to have a sweet spot at around 550 with the flue at around 300-350. It seems like I can sort of idle it there on one or two cedar (no other options this time of year in my area) splits. I can see it is much easier to manage the stove and fuel after there is a good bed of coals. When I did run the stove up to around 650, I will say one thing, it is a heat monster.

 

[begreen]

The stove is old school. Baffling the stove will not neuter it, instead it will enhance its studly performance.

 

[ponderosa77]

Yeah, the draft is awesome. I will need the damper for sure.

This installation and stove is not one to just stoke and walk away from early in the burn cycle.... it's way too easy with this draft to suck so much heat out the stack to overheat the flue, especially when flaming initial wood to make a coal bed.

However, after a nice coal bed is established, this configuration is easy to manage. I've kept the stove around 550 for hours today and the stack about 350. If it drops too much, I add another split and since the stack is already up to temp, I can keep the fuel rate low and the stove steady.

75f all day in the basement with no insulation or sheetrock on slab walls (plan to do walls soon). Furnace upstairs hasn't come on in hours-the heat is radiating up the stairs and through the floor with no forced induction. It is 28f outside.

Thanks to all who helped. I saved a ton of money yet got a great install and this old stove is as good as I thought it would be.

Wife likes it so much she said she wants one upstairs too...

 

[coaly]

When you start it with kindling, you close the damper to slow it down leaving draft caps open a couple turns. This keeps more heat in the stove to get the larger pieces started. Closing the air slows it down, but when starting that is not the time to deprive it of air. Just close damper slowly until the roar stops and it will come up to temp. As it gets hotter, close down to a turn or so.
The colder outside, the farther closed you will run it, since the colder it is outside, the larger the temp differential and the stronger the draft.
The damper doesn't change pipe temperature by holding heat back, it slows velocity in pipe and affects the stove by slowing air coming in.

The baffle puts most of that lost heat to the front top. Your rear top will be hotter than front now. The baffle makes it much more controllable too.
You will notice a drastic smoke reduction even when starting it.

 

[ponderosa77]

When you start it with kindling, you close the damper to slow it down leaving draft caps open a couple turns. This keeps more heat in the stove to get the larger pieces started. Closing the air slows it down, but when starting that is not the time to deprive it of air. Just close damper slowly until the roar stops and it will come up to temp. As it gets hotter, close down to a turn or so.
The colder outside, the farther closed you will run it, since the colder it is outside, the larger the temp differential and the stronger the draft.
The damper doesn't change pipe temperature by holding heat back, it slows velocity in pipe and affects the stove by slowing air coming in.

The baffle puts most of that lost heat to the front top. Your rear top will be hotter than front now. The baffle makes it much more controllable too.
You will notice a drastic smoke reduction even when starting it.

Got my basement to 78 last night. I haven't ducted air or moved any with fans but have just been experimenting with radiant heat. I think it will get even warmer after I insulate the walls. It is definitely heating the room above the stove as well. I didn't stoke it full of fuel last night but I shut it down when a few splits were coaling. I got up this morning and checked on the stove and it was still warm and the basement was 70. What a great stove.

Off to study the baffle thread again...

 

[ponderosa77]

I experimented and took one chimney section off when inspecting recently. That makes 20 ft of pipe now. This slowed down draft a little more and I actually had hot coals this morning. Logs are lasting much longer in coal stage.

 

[coaly]

You only need 3 feet above roof at penetration as long as top is 2 feet above anything 10 feet horizontal away. My single story installation is 15 feet from floor the stove is on to chimney top and I have to use a damper with single wall pipe into 6 inch insulated chimney.

 

[ponderosa77]

A look at the Selkirk 8 inch damper:



Here is a look at the damper and reducer installed:


A look at the chase enclosure:


How does an old Fisher work? Does it generate any heat? I'd call it a heat monster:


It is very easy to heat the basement to 85f with no insulation work done yet. I'm not pushing any air around with fans or vents but the heat does radiate up into the main floor and it's pretty easy to maintain 74-76 upstairs.

I do need to think and plan carefully if I want to move the air with the furnace fan and I'm not sure yet how to do that. The furnace room ingests fresh air from an outside vent so the stove probably wants to draw that air toward it. What I want to do is suck hot air from the stove into the furnace room (heat the furnace room into the 70s and let the fan draw air out of that room and send through the ducts).

Maybe I should provide fresh air behind the stove and put a return air vent in the furnace room wall (which is about 15ft away from the front of the stove....

What a stove...

 

[bholler]

What a stove...

yeah they make allot of heat but they also use a ton of wood

 

[coaly]

Does the enclosure have an air vent at the bottom for cool air to enter? Does the outside of chimney pipe stay cooler now?

 

[coaly]

I do need to think and plan carefully if I want to move the air with the furnace fan and I'm not sure yet how to do that. The furnace room ingests fresh air from an outside vent so the stove probably wants to draw that air toward it. What I want to do is suck hot air from the stove into the furnace room (heat the furnace room into the 70s and let the fan draw air out of that room and send through the ducts).

Maybe I should provide fresh air behind the stove and put a return air vent in the furnace room wall (which is about 15ft away from the front of the stove...

Sounds like your gas or oil furnace is installed in a utility room with a fresh air intake for combustion air for the burner. This is separate from the area it heats. Each room it heats should (must) have a heat and return air duct. The blower simply circulates the air from each room, through the furnace where it is heated, (called a plenum) and back to each area it is heating. Mechanical code requires the intake of ducted system to be no more than 10 feet from the stove. If you change the intake for the blower to pull from the basement where the stove heat is and push it into each room upstairs, it has to return to the basement to be reheated. This circulation is not as good as a return in each room and no doors could be closed for return air to get back to basement. You would have to close all the air returns upstairs to allow it to pull only from basement, and not use that configuration with furnace in use. This would try to pressurize a room and not move heat into it. It can only heat a room it takes air from. Lots of reasons to discourage this type of use. Including the electric bill.

Much better to allow heat to rise naturally above stove through floor vents, (code now requires self closing fire door in vent between floors) and as hot air rises to ceiling upstairs it drops as it cools. The return air vent or preferably stairway should be on the other end of home to allow circulation of air to migrate through home and drop back down to be reheated. Cool air will fall like a waterfall down steps toward the stove to be reheated. Not all floor plans are desirable for this type circulation, so fans or blowers may be needed to help move air. Always move it in direction of gravity flow (hot up, cold down) and not against the natural flow. It's easier to blow heat into the basement at the opposite end of stove and allow hot air to naturally rise into the lower pressure area upstairs you are creating. It already wants to go in that direction, you're just helping it along.

If there is a vent on the door going into the utility room with furnace, the wood stove will use the outside intake through the furnace room for fresh air. If there is no vent on the door, installing one is an easy way for a good fresh air intake for the wood stove if the basement is relatively tight.

 

[ponderosa77]

yeah they make allot of heat but they also use a ton of wood

Funny you say that. Even if I close the damper and slow it down, it still does eat wood. Wish I had some hardwood to try during night burns.

 

[ponderosa77]

Does the enclosure have an air vent at the bottom for cool air to enter? Does the outside of chimney pipe stay cooler now?

I have the other matching vent, just haven't cut it in yet. I will install a magnetic thermometer on the pipe just behind a vent but am not sure how hot it gets in there lately...

 

[bholler]

Funny you say that. Even if I close the damper and slow it down, it still does eat wood. Wish I had some hardwood to try during night burns.

I know they do I have run a few they are tanks. But you will get tired of cutting wood for that beast quickly.

 

[ponderosa77]

I know they do I have run a few they are tanks. But you will get tired of cutting wood for that beast quickly.

The good news is that I can choose how and when to use it, since I have a good natural gas furnace.... in talking with people, it seems like these old stoves could easily burn 4 or 5 cords a season...

 

[coaly]

The good news is that I can choose how and when to use it, since I have a good natural gas furnace.... in talking with people, it seems like these old stoves could easily burn 4 or 5 cords a season...

At least you have an efficient chimney that won't eat wood like an 8. You could double those numbers here.

I burned 7.5 last year in the Kitchen Queen and my neighbors Papa burning 24/7 used about 12 as his only heat source for 1500 down, 1500 up. He is a mason by trade, gets wood free and won't put the money into a liner to save tons of work.

 

[bholler]

it seems like these old stoves could easily burn 4 or 5 cords a season...

You can burn way more than that I burn 4 to 5 in my stove. I would be 7 or 8 in an old fisher

 

[ponderosa77]

You can burn way more than that I burn 4 to 5 in my stove. I would be 7 or 8 in an old fisher

You guys are right. I think my father in-law burns about 7 in his XL.

The chimney and damper do help. I restarted the fire this morning from coals. The damper is a nice addition to slow down the burn.

I'm going to try and cut at least 4 or 5 cords this year.