2023/24 VC Temperature discussion thread

[skb31]

Encore 2040 cat-c. Manufactured in 2023 if that adds any detail. The secondary air slot is just above the primary air flapper in the back of the stove. Single walled pipe for the flue into a decent length chimney (25+ feet). I am getting a key damper before next season as a cautionary step.

You’re correct, it can be burned in updraft mode for small fires or restarting. She doesn’t mind doing that, it’s the damper and air control part she’s not comfortable with yet. I can encourage her to do small updraft fires to warm up when she’s downstairs so thanks for that idea.

I’m getting good heat and haven’t over fired it. The manual says 18-20 inch wood and mine is 16 until I burn through what I have so I’m not sure if that has much effect. It’s the times when I’m 100% primary air closed with a decent fuel load left to go that I’d like more control. The cat climbed to 1525 after fulling cutting the air at around 1200 yesterday. Maybe I need to cut it back fully earlier. Maybe my perception of 3/4 load is off and that’s a full load. Still learning all the variables.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Encore 2040 cat-c. Manufactured in 2023 if that adds any detail. The secondary air slot is just above the primary air flapper in the back of the stove. Single walled pipe for the flue into a decent length chimney (25+ feet). I am getting a key damper before next season as a cautionary step.

You’re correct, it can be burned in updraft mode for small fires or restarting. She doesn’t mind doing that, it’s the damper and air control part she’s not comfortable with yet. I can encourage her to do small updraft fires to warm up when she’s downstairs so thanks for that idea.

I’m getting good heat and haven’t over fired it. The manual says 18-20 inch wood and mine is 16 until I burn through what I have so I’m not sure if that has much effect. It’s the times when I’m 100% primary air closed with a decent fuel load left to go that I’d like more control. The cat climbed to 1525 after fulling cutting the air at around 1200 yesterday. Maybe I need to cut it back fully earlier. Maybe my perception of 3/4 load is off and that’s a full load. Still learning all the variables.

I try to close my primary air all the way with a cat temperature of 1000 degrees or less.. not a super thick bed of coals if I can avoid that also... doing this keeps my cat hanging in the 1300s to low 1400s. Doing it this way works for me and some others.. from what I understand.. not everyone.

The steel cat also has been my friend.. keeping cat temperatures lower.. ceramic has had my highest temperatures so I am rebelling against ceramic.. booo.. ceramic is bad.. As a matter of fact.. I put my ceramic catalyst in the corner and its in time out.. It will stay there until fall of 2024.. or unless it gets warmer out and i my put it in during shoulder season..

 

[arnermd]

Good information about the magnets. I’ll get better ones. The manual says not to run the stove “in a manner inconsistent with the operating instructions in this manual.” It’s designed to be used with the catalyst per the instructions so that’s what I do.

I imagine when the cat eventually fails most people run it without or poorly functioning for a time? How else do you know to replace it outside of inspecting it and checking for smoke exiting the chimney?

Which meter are you using @arnermd? I love seeing the data over time. Does it sync to your mobile and if so can you set warnings to notify you of temps?

That's interesting your manual does not speak to running without the cat. Wonder if they changed something in the design or just decided not to allow it (and why?)

Cat failure can be detected by lower cat temps. I found the smoke method to be hit or miss, hard to tell sometimes. Usually for me I can tell because the ceramic cat just falls apart and pieces are laying at the bottom of the stove.... easy to tell. The metal cat did not fall apart but over several loads I could not get the cat over 700-800. So I swapped back to my ceramic.

Instrumentation:

• I have dual Watlow digital controllers that I use for primary readouts and audible alarms. Cat and flue gas temps.
• I use the Perfect Prime TC0520 for data logging (Cat, flue gas and stove top). I dump the data every 1 - 2 weeks via a USB cable and import it into Excel where I make all the plots. They do make a wireless version but it is more expensive.
• There is a bunch of new stuff out there that is wifi compatible, but I have not looked into them in detail.

I do not own a cell phone so no need for that...

 

[Eman85]

OK, @skb31 you have a new version of my old stove. My secondary air is on the back above the primary and it has a shutter that is thermostatically controlled by a mechanical coil that has a probe to the cat chamber. It is barely open 1/8" on start up and then closes when the stove warms but reopens when cat temps rise into the 1400-1500 range.
Plenty of posts about people restricting or opening secondary air but none seem to prove anything.
I think you'll find that 18-20" wood will work for the first few pieces when you top load and then you'll have problems getting the last pieces in, I stick with 16" and use the longer odd pieces for the bottom of the load.
The pucker factor goes away and you won't panic over 1525 temps, it's stressful to watch the cat climb to that especially with the Auber reading so easy to watch. It's such a relief when it peaks and drops that first couple of degrees and you can stop holding your breath! I agree with more control but it's just the way it's designed. Once the cat rises and drops if I want a little more heat I can open the primary, on some loads I'm rewarded but on some the cat takes off and we're off to the races again.
Like @Woodsplitter67 if I cut my air at 1000 to 1100 I usually have a good outcome on a full load. The temp will rise then stall or drop but will rise to the 1300-1400's and cruise and slowly drop over time. I'll wake to 500 or so cat temps. At that point I'll open the air wide open and the fire will blaze, clean the glass and cat will rise usually to the 800's or so. Then I can reload and let it run to 1000 and repeat the whole deal again.
I can only say what I do, your results may vary. Burning without engaging the cat works OK on my stove and I've actually gone a couple of years burning like that. BUT! I clean my own chimney and I clean it a couple of times during burning season, we get warm spells. Without the cat and no baffle the flames will go right up the stove pipe. It's an easy way to light off a chimney fire if there is buildup, on the other hand it keeps the first part of the pipe very clean.

 

[skb31]

Thanks for all the feedback. I read every one and refer back to advice here often.

@arnermd I’ll check out the meters. And for what it’s worth the guy that does my chimney cleaning and services my stove said I could run the stove without the cat. He stated it would run very similar to my previous stove but would also be less efficient and produce more smoke.

@Eman85, you nailed how I’m feeling as I adjust to the new stove. Once a new peak is reached I am relieved as I see the temps settle. The next time around I don’t stress as much. I’ll cut back air at lower temps and more aggressively. I’ve seen the posts about blocking some refractory holes but a damper on my pipe makes more sense to me.

I should specifically mention and thank @Woodsplitter67 too! I read all your posts and will cut back the air better as mentioned.

My wood is a mix of locally harvested hardwood but I’m not the best at specifics on type by looking at seasoned wood. I’ll get more informed when I buy more. I get it green and season it at least a season ahead. I’ve seen the posts about burning ash and I know I get some in my wood. They are/were more aggressively harvesting it but it’s only ~5% of the forest.

I’ve not had my stove go nuclear and I credit that to this forum.

 

[AsylumResident]

It's amazing, about a month ago @Woodsplitter67 asked if my cat temps were running lower (since I switched from the ceramic to the metal). The first couple weeks they definitely ran higher and did so quicker. It would hit 1400-1600 very quick. As of the last couple weeks it comes up to temp slower than normal and struggles to hit 1200. My first big burn from a cold start won't hit 1000. After the reload, I can get it to about 1200, but not for long then it slowly comes back down and likes to hang out around 900. My STT is about the same as it was before and flue is running lower due to the lower cat temps.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Thanks for all the feedback. I read every one and refer back to advice here often.

@arnermd I’ll check out the meters. And for what it’s worth the guy that does my chimney cleaning and services my stove said I could run the stove without the cat. He stated it would run very similar to my previous stove but would also be less efficient and produce more smoke.

@Eman85, you nailed how I’m feeling as I adjust to the new stove. Once a new peak is reached I am relieved as I see the temps settle. The next time around I don’t stress as much. I’ll cut back air at lower temps and more aggressively. I’ve seen the posts about blocking some refractory holes but a damper on my pipe makes more sense to me.

I should specifically mention and thank @Woodsplitter67 too! I read all your posts and will cut back the air better as mentioned.

My wood is a mix of locally harvested hardwood but I’m not the best at specifics on type by looking at seasoned wood. I’ll get more informed when I buy more. I get it green and season it at least a season ahead. I’ve seen the posts about burning ash and I know I get some in my wood. They are/were more aggressively harvesting it but it’s only ~5% of the forest.

I’ve not had my stove go nuclear and I credit that to this forum.

your welcome.. hanging out and sharing some information is whst its all about

 

[Woodsplitter67]

It's amazing, about a month ago @Woodsplitter67 asked if my cat temps were running lower (since I switched from the ceramic to the metal). The first couple weeks they definitely ran higher and did so quicker. It would hit 1400-1600 very quick. As of the last couple weeks it comes up to temp slower than normal and struggles to hit 1200. My first big burn from a cold start won't hit 1000. After the reload, I can get it to about 1200, but not for long then it slowly comes back down and likes to hang out around 900. My STT is about the same as it was before and flue is running lower due to the lower cat temps.

I think it takes a bit for the cat to break in.. I noticed in the beginning the metal cat lighs iff extremely fast.. mine still lights off quick but not as fast now and the higher temperatures I dont see.. the cat is still running strong.. not an ounce of smoke but cat hangs anywhere between 1000 and 1300.. maybe an occasional lower 1400s

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Was it the Auber one?

For sure burning without it is unnerving. I actually did not burn overnight till I got the replacement in.... next day from Amazon. Hard to believe I ran for a couple years with only a magnetic STT reading.... ignorance is bliss.

Yeah that was the Auber one. Just randomly stopped working. First I thought my cat was dead when it wouldn't go over 750. Then it fell to -400 and I knew it was the probe.

Ordered an extra one in case it happens again I have a backup ready. But hoping this was a one off bad probe

 

[arnermd]

Thanks for all the feedback. I read every one and refer back to advice here often.

@arnermd I’ll check out the meters. And for what it’s worth the guy that does my chimney cleaning and services my stove said I could run the stove without the cat. He stated it would run very similar to my previous stove but would also be less efficient and produce more smoke.

@Eman85, you nailed how I’m feeling as I adjust to the new stove. Once a new peak is reached I am relieved as I see the temps settle. The next time around I don’t stress as much. I’ll cut back air at lower temps and more aggressively. I’ve seen the posts about blocking some refractory holes but a damper on my pipe makes more sense to me.

I should specifically mention and thank @Woodsplitter67 too! I read all your posts and will cut back the air better as mentioned.

My wood is a mix of locally harvested hardwood but I’m not the best at specifics on type by looking at seasoned wood. I’ll get more informed when I buy more. I get it green and season it at least a season ahead. I’ve seen the posts about burning ash and I know I get some in my wood. They are/were more aggressively harvesting it but it’s only ~5% of the forest.

I’ve not had my stove go nuclear and I credit that to this forum.

The data logger is certainly not required, the only reason I bought it was because I am trying to figure out why my stove behaves the way it does and to track it while I am away or sleeping. If your stove is consistent and repeatable, absolutely no need for a data logger.

 

[skb31]

I am debating the idea of getting one for the data logging and I could have multiple probes on one meter. I’d love to see if there are patterns in the burn cycles.

 

[arnermd]

See if you can spot the pattern here...... yep you guessed it.... hot. Peak was 1900F.
Full load of ash, ceramic cat.

Griddle temp sensor is out of commission, cracked magnet. Need to fix it.

 

[U235]

Well I guess that answers the question “wonder how high it would’ve got if I just let it go”. I’m guessing this is a night your refractory will remember.

 

[Catesy]

See if you can spot the pattern here...... yep you guessed it.... hot. Peak was 1900F.
Full load of ash, ceramic cat.

Griddle temp sensor is out of commission, cracked magnet. Need to fix it.

View attachment 325290

Looks like how my stove acts. Any back puffing?

 

[arnermd]

Looks like how my stove acts. Any back puffing?

Not bad last night.... but it has been frequently as of late with low air settings.

 

[Catesy]

My dauntless cat has been as high as 1800 a few times. Over 1600 about every night. The combustor casing has swollen to the point that it is difficult to remove. Back puffing occurs 3-4 hours after loading. If I give it more air, my STT goes to 600-650 & over heats my little house. The wife and I are in agreement that this stove has to go. May be getting a Hearthstone Heritage.

 

[Eman85]

FWIW my stove has been performing well, very predictable and controllable. One thing that I think has helped was during the last warm spell I replaced the cracked door glass, my stove has double glass, and the glass gasket. I had smoke tested the stove to see if it was pulling air from anywhere and it never showed anything but I could see the gasket pulled in under the glass and it was in bad shape when I took it apart. I had done the left door when I did the whole stove gasket replacement but didn't touch the right until I got the new glass. Stove was good this year but better now. Back puffing still happens but not often even with the air shut completely for overnight burns.

 

[AsylumResident]

See if you can spot the pattern here...... yep you guessed it.... hot. Peak was 1900F.
Full load of ash, ceramic cat.

Griddle temp sensor is out of commission, cracked magnet. Need to fix it.

View attachment 325290

Good lord! Breaking records here? I've had the flue that high but I've never seen the cat that high on mine. Any idea what your draft was here? Rocking a solid 0.18 - 0.20 iwc? Sound like a jet engine?

 

[AsylumResident]

I am debating the idea of getting one for the data logging and I could have multiple probes on one meter. I’d love to see if there are patterns in the burn cycles.

This is the one I use. Allows me to see the temps on my phone anywhere I am.

ThermaQ® WiFi Thermocouple Alarm Thermometer

Specializing in cool, unique and professional temperature tools. Super-Fast thermocouples, thermistors, infrared thermometers, data logging and more.

www.thermoworks.com

 

[skb31]

Thanks! Those are the features I’m looking for. I don’t need anything fancy for an app. Just to be able to see the temps and get warnings on my phone would be good.

 

[arnermd]

Good lord! Breaking records here? I've had the flue that high but I've never seen the cat that high on mine. Any idea what your draft was here? Rocking a solid 0.18 - 0.20 iwc? Sound like a jet engine?

I do not measure the draft, but I am guessing it was high.
Noise was not really noticeable, the usual low rumble of an over firing cat.
F'in Ash.....

Had another burn yesterday, 3/4 load, mix of ash and oak. Very few coals, just enough to get going.
Started bringing down the air super early like 600, by 1000 it was full closed.
Kept climbing up to 1700 when I plugged the secondary inlet and that brought it down to 1100 before I opened it back up again.

Nuts....

 

[Eman85]

You must have some supercharged ash! I've had ash mixed in the last couple of loads and haven't had any changes. Last night I reloaded over a good sized load and a very hot cat. I let the fire get hot before closing the damper so I didn't shock the cat, this allowed the cat to cool some and the box to build heat. It reengaged nicely but almost stalled as the temps dropped into the 800's after a while. I opened the air a little and let it rise shut it back when it crossed into the 1050 range and all was good for the overnight burn.

 

[arnermd]

Last nights burn.

• 4 small - med splits, barely 1/2 a load. All ash.
• Moderate bed of coals
• Closed air down at lower temps than I usually do
• Left air 10% open, I have been getting backpuffing at 0% lately.
• At 1700 on the cat I put my plate over the secondary inlet and went to bed....

Warm today.... maybe I can let the monster sleep for a day or two....

 

[U235]

Are you leaving the secondary blocked for the rest of burn when you’ve done this? I can’t understand how it is breathing at all.

Now that you’ve found a control input that is actually effective, any chance the watlows can run a small servo to meter the secondary air?

 

[AsylumResident]

For the future I am flush with ash but I have found some oak and hickory that I can mix into those piles for the next couple of years. I have barely burned since the end of January, been too warm. Here's to hoping for a real winter next year.